[abbike18]

Hi All-
Flashed XHP stage 2 on my '19 X3 M40i a few days ago. My quick notes:

Comfort: Shifts are slightly firmer, but still like butter. Much more responsive to downshifts as needed. I felt like before it would wait until you really pressed the gas pedal, and then do a really jerky downshift. That is gone. It is also a lot more attentive to the pitch of the vehicle - it holds lower gears going up steep hills so you still have some responsiveness. Previously it would upshift and then every time you wanted to accelerate it would downshift hard.

Sport: Honestly, about the same. Maybe slightly faster but over all sporty but smooth shifts.

Sport+: Way faster and crisper shifts. Before it felt like there wasn't a ton of difference between Sport and Sport+. Sport is still smooth but fast, whereas Sport+ gives a little more spirited kick every shift.

Overall I really like it. Makes Sport+ feel more 'special'. I might try stage 3 for fun at some point. However next up is BM3 stage 1.

I'll try to do a 0-60 on the XHP stage 2 before doing BM3 so we can see the change in shift speed and how it affects times.

[Alias1431]

Looking forward to that post!

[abbike18]

Alright...had to go out for some emergency tater tots...hit my usual 0-60 spot on the way home. I'm at about 5200feet also, so I tend to be slower to 60.

Stock engine, stock transmission on Pirelli pzeros - 4.75
Stock engine, xhp stage 2 on Pirelli scorpion Winters - 4.60

[_ink]

Congrats @abbike18! You can truly feel the difference with xHP.. I went from stage 3 to stage 2 and difinitely felt the difference across all modes, Sports+ in particular... With stage 3 and Sports+, up shifts felt like you were absolutely launched into the next year..

[Alias1431]

Originally Posted by _ink

Congrats @abbike18! You can truly feel the difference with xHP.. I went from stage 3 to stage 2 and difinitely felt the difference across all modes, Sports+ in particular... With stage 3 and Sports+, up shifts felt like you were absolutely launched into the next year..

Any concerns with greater wear in the transmission drive train?

[abbike18]

Originally Posted by Alias1431

Any concerns with greater wear in the transmission drive train?

Depends on who you want to listen to. xHP says no if you follow their guidance. Pure Drivetrain Solutions (6HP and 8HP transmission rebuilders) says yes it does in crease wear. So they are both selling their own products.

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From XHP Manual (https://chiptuning.ca/public_content...xhp_manual.pdf)

Q: How about reliability, will I shorten the life of my transmission using xHP?
A: OTS Stage 1 and Stage 2 setups won’t have any effect on the lifetime of transmission components. Not on the TCU, nor on the shafts or clutches. Keep in mind, that automatic transmissions are highly complicated units, with a few hundred components inside. Some of these components are designed to wear out (like clutches) through making use of them. Your driving style and proper maintenance have the biggest impact on the life-time of transmission components. Obey these simple rules:
✓ Let your transmission warmup on each drive before applying heavy throttle. You will notice some amount of slip in the warmup phase, which is intentionally to heat up the oil inside. Basic Rule: Your transmission needs about the same time to heat up as your engine oil.
✓ Don’t “pump-up” your vehicle on standing starts with brake/throttle applied at the same time.
✓ Flush/change your transmission oil regularly. (approx. every 50k – 75k miles) BMW does not want you
to do it, but ZF wants you. Trust ZF, who have built this transmission.
✓ S and M modes are designed to facilitate sporty and fun driving. Shift times are cut and clutches get
applied more aggressive. Use these modes when necessary and not as standard. The TCU records the amount of time you spend in each mode. BMW uses this data to judge on warranty cases.

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From Pure Drivetrain Solutions:
https://www.puredrivetrainsolutions....ions-about-xhp

As many of you know we are the leader in the ZF6HP (6 speed) and ZF8HP (8 speed) aftermarket. It’s fair to say we have disassembled, inspected and built more ZF 6/8 speeds than any other performance aftermarket company in the world. A big part of our process is collecting as much data from the tear downs as we can. This is where we can take note of wear patterns, worn out parts, broken parts etc. Along this process we also like to collect data on what the transmissions life was like prior to coming into our facility. This particular write up will be about our findings on the xHP flash tool used in the BMW aftermarket. The xHP is needed for the gen1 B58 and the 6HP platforms as it removes the torque limiters within the TCM to allow a target higher than 550nm. So for this we recommend the xHP stage1 flash. Anything passed the stage1 you are sacrificing reliability for performance and I will talk about a few of these things below.

These findings are to only educate the end consumer on what they are using and how it will effect the life of their transmission.

The xHP line pressure bump feature also known as LPB is the first thing I will address. The LPB is an add on feature to the xHP stage flashes. What this feature does is allows the transmission to target a much higher line pressure at all times. Now this does help in the instances of a stock transmission which is being pushed well passed what it was ever intended to do. It can and will help the transmissions not slip as easily as they would on a stock TCM file targeting factory line pressures. Now some of the issues we have found are increased wear on the clutches and shortened life span of the overall transmission. Now yes its a double edged sword as you may say, either the transmission slips or you cram a bunch of line pressure and it doesn’t slip and wears out faster. Once again, it is the price you pay for increased performance. We have found the main seal in the tail-shaft of the transmission that is located within the D clutch can not adequately handle this added pressure on a constant basis and the seal gets blown out. At this point the applied pressure to the D clutch wont allow it to properly engage and it results in a D clutch pack failure. We have found this through collecting data over time and it is not an anomaly. This particular seal failure we have only seen when the transmission was running excessive amounts of line pressure.

The higher stages of the flashes adjust many things such as shift times and torque reduction. This is a very in depth topic that I will touch upon in a later blog post. There is a lot going on within the strategy of these TCM’s from PWM solenoid control to TCC lockup solenoid control among other things, all of which we will speak about at a later time. The cliff notes are as follows, the torque reduction on the shifts will allow the car to stay in power without throttle closure or timing pull back and will for sure make the car shift quicker and the car overall quicker/faster. This will wear heavily on all transmission parts whether it be a stock or built unit. Once again the performance vs reliability conversation comes up. The same goes for shift times, the quicker you attempt to disengage one gear to engage the next the quicker you will wear some parts out. This is where cross over pressures are crucial, if your cross over pressures are not correct you will do a lot of damage to hard parts.

You want to go fast? Then just be aware. What xHP offers does work and it does make the cars quicker/faster but it will also come at a price of decreased reliability. In closing I will say this, the transmission tuning is just as important as the engine tuning side of things. You don’t just run a generic ECU file or otherwise known as an OTS tune in your car and expect it to perform at its best right? No you have it tuned by whomever you feel is the best for your application. I do believe that a true tuning solution with data logging capabilities is what this platform needs and do hope to see xHP or someone else release something of this sort sooner than later.

One last thing I will add to this post is that across the gen2 B58 platform where no TCM tuning is available we have never seen the above aforementioned issues.

[Alias1431]

Originally Posted by abbike18

Depends on who you want to listen to. xHP says no if you follow their guidance. Pure Drivetrain Solutions (6HP and 8HP transmission rebuilders) says yes it does in crease wear. So they are both selling their own products.

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The xHP is needed for the gen1 B58 and the 6HP platforms as it removes the torque limiters within the TCM to allow a target higher than 550nm.

I assume my 2019 M40i is "gen1 B58", since I think by gen2 they mean the B58TU, which I believe has the 3rd gen tranny, the 8HP51, as opposed to my 2nd gen tranny, the 8HP50.

So I wonder if my non-6HP 8HP would still benefit from a stage 1 xHP. I think it will. I'm confused as to why the 8HP51 would not, though. They are still limited to the same torque number, are they not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission#BMW

[SO8]

Originally Posted by Alias1431

Any concerns with greater wear in the transmission drive train?

This is why I haven’t done it.

I would like the torque limit removal for my remap, but I don’t really want extra line pressure going towards popping a seal on the gearbox which isn’t meant to take that pressure.

I know xHP say the increased pressure is fine but two local mechanics I use are not so confident.

[dinan5m3]

Originally Posted by abbike18

✓ S and M modes are designed to facilitate sporty and fun driving. Shift times are cut and clutches get
applied more aggressive. Use these modes when necessary and not as standard. The TCU records the amount of time you spend in each mode. BMW uses this data to judge on warranty cases.

Looking at the current FAQ (as above was written in 2017 looks like), above rule is not stated.

https://rbttuning.atlassian.net/wiki...lashtool+-+FAQ

Originally Posted by abbike18

The xHP is needed for the gen1 B58 and the 6HP platforms as it removes the torque limiters within the TCM to allow a target higher than 550nm. So for this we recommend the xHP stage1 flash. Anything passed the stage1 you are sacrificing reliability for performance and I will talk about a few of these things below.

Looks like MHD starting with v3.60 now does what xHP stage 1 does (which is where i am with MHD stage 1), except to display current gear setting in cluster display,

Originally Posted by abbike18

From Pure Drivetrain Solutions:
https://www.puredrivetrainsolutions....ions-about-xhp

One last thing I will add to this post is that across the gen2 B58 platform where no TCM tuning is available we have never seen the above aforementioned issues.

If there are no (aftermarket) TCM tuning available for gen2 B58 8HP then their teardowns of gen2 B58 tranny's were (all) with stock transmission tuning? And they didn't see any of the above mentioned issues with stock tranny tune? If so then have they observed with stock tranny tune with gen1 B58 8HP that they have observed those issues?

[dinan5m3]

What sort of feature options are folks tried with?

Looks like the LPB is disabled by default.

[dinan5m3]

Originally Posted by abbike18

You don’t just run a generic ECU file or otherwise known as an OTS tune in your car and expect it to perform at its best right? No you have it tuned by whomever you feel is the best for your application. I do believe that a true tuning solution with data logging capabilities is what this platform needs and do hope to see xHP or someone else release something of this sort sooner than later.

Looks like not a good idea to use LPB feature on xHP with a stock tune,

[abbike18]

great points dinan5m3

Looks like I definitely posted an outdated xHP document - good catch. They seem to have gotten rid of the S/M warning. And they moved from saying that Stage 1 and 2 don't have any effect on the lifetime to saying that any xHP tune doesn't have any 'general detrimental effect' on the lifetime.

The pure drivetrain solutions article seems to mostly talk about the impacts of the Line Pressure Bump as being detrimental on seals. Which I would believe. I checked my xHp tuner and you are right, the LPB is by default turned off. Also xHP says that the line pressure is only upped when there is slippage in the clutches, not all the time like the Pure Drivetrain Solutions article states. See screenshot below.

So where are we? xHP, who wants to sell their tune, says there are no 'general detrimental effects' on lifetime. PDS, who wants to sell their upgrade rebuild process, says that you will get faster wear and tear from the performance you get from xHP.

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. I think I'm ok knowing that I'll see slightly faster clutch wear. I don't really want to get leaks from a LPB, but I've got it off now and even if it is enabled it only ups the pressure when it is needed. Which is likely not that often as a percentage of operating time.

I need to check with ProTuningFreaks about the reporting of the torque to the TCU...will email them a ticket now and post back here when I find out.

[dinan5m3]

Originally Posted by SO8

This is why I haven’t done it.

I would like the torque limit removal for my remap, but I don’t really want extra line pressure going towards popping a seal on the gearbox which isn’t meant to take that pressure.

I know xHP say the increased pressure is fine but two local mechanics I use are not so confident.

For what it's worth, i've spoken with few so-called experts on B58 tuning, including Cary Jordan in east coast. "Everyone" speaks of same thing, i.e. "xhp? highly recommended", LOL...

The way i think of modding is, soon as you get off the stock anything, i'm in that "gray" area, particularly with aftermarket tunes.

I can only hope to do thorough study, review, investigation, etc. before jumping into modding that takes car out of the factory spec, which it itself risky proposition with so many telemetry that BMW can look at to reverse engineer what i've done. So, at the end of the day, i need to make sure i'm modding objectively, "smartly" to make "safe" power, log, log, log...

[abbike18]

Originally Posted by dinan5m3

For what it's worth, i've spoken with few so-called experts on B58 tuning, including Cary Jordan in east coast. "Everyone" speaks of same thing, i.e. "xhp? highly recommended", LOL...

The way i think of modding is, soon as you get off the stock anything, i'm in that "gray" area, particularly with aftermarket tunes.

I can only hope to do thorough study, review, investigation, etc. before jumping into modding that takes car out of the factory spec, which it itself risky proposition with so many telemetry that BMW can look at to reverse engineer what i've done. So, at the end of the day, i need to make sure i'm modding objectively, "smartly" to make "safe" power, log, log, log...

What ECU tune/stage are you running and why? Would love to hear what you've done and the research/reasoning behind it.

[dinan5m3]

Originally Posted by abbike18

What ECU tune/stage are you running and why? Would love to hear what you've done and the research/reasoning behind it.

I'm at MHD stage 1 at the moment.

Why MHD? No particular reason (since all 3 major OTS provider platforms are more or less equivalent in their flashing and maps go) other than i wanted to go with company that had been on Android the longest.

Need to install the MST intake and try stage 1 for a while.

Stage 1 because i have not yet installed the catted AA downpipe.

Then stage 2.

Afterwards need to install the Dorch stage 1 HPFP, to go up to stage 2+ map.

Then the Dorch flex fuel setup to run E30 without the mixing hassle.

And somewhere in all that timeline, i need to fit in the xHP stage 2.

This is first time for me running OTS maps, because until now all my tunes on older cars been custom tunes. Just like everyone else with their butt dyno, my MHD stage 1 has been great (what do you expect though...)

That should do it for me, since after all the car is the wife's ride, glad she's still enjoying her Odyssey...

[jdub486]

Interesting, I find the factory transmission and throttle tuning brilliant. BMW may be bashed for many things these days but the magazines always seem to praise the BMW ZF trans tuning. XHP stage 2 was disappointing on my e90 335d.

[abbike18]

In typical protuningfreaks fashion, they are super fast at responding to customer inquiries.

I just received confirmation that all bootmod3 OTS tunes report the true torque value to the transmission.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by jdub486

Interesting, I find the factory transmission and throttle tuning brilliant. BMW may be bashed for many things these days but the magazines always seem to praise the BMW ZF trans tuning. XHP stage 2 was disappointing on my e90 335d.

Feel exactly the same way. The xHP transmission tune transformed by 2010 335d. My 2019 X3 m4.0i feels perfect with the Mhd stage 1 I am running purely stock.

[SO8]

Well I have bought and loaded xHP onto my 2019 M40i and so far (only running in) it seems impressive.

I have only loaded xHP Stage 1 but bought the map pack so will try the others.

I notice the xHP Stage 1 standard custom preset allows a lot more torque in 1st and 2nd than their AWD custom setting .... I am thinking to help the transfer box ?

Have people used the xHP AWD setting or just left xHp in it's standard setting ?

My map only produces 610Nm max but I was wondering whether to change to the AWD custom function to be safe - 650Nm in 1st and 800Nm in second max as opposed to their standard preset of 800 and 1200 respectively !!

[dinan5m3]

Originally Posted by SO8

I notice the xHP Stage 1 standard custom preset allows a lot more torque in 1st and 2nd than their AWD custom setting .... I am thinking to help the transfer box ?

Have people used the xHP AWD setting or just left xHp in it's standard setting ?

My map only produces 610Nm max but I was wondering whether to change to the AWD custom function to be safe - 650Nm in 1st and 800Nm in second max as opposed to their standard preset of 800 and 1200 respectively !!

Can you post/share, if you can, screenshots of what you are seeing in various settings pages?

[SO8]

Originally Posted by dinan5m3

Can you post/share, if you can, screenshots of what you are seeing in various settings pages?

See the three attached ... hopefully

[SO8]

I’ve now tried Stage 1 xHP with and without the custom AWD settings. As my DMS engine map doesn’t go that far with torque i have just reverted to the standard stage 1 xHP with no custom settings applied.

Interestingly the TCU was restricting torque even with my DMS map which shouldn’t have touched the limiters … FWIW the ‘power / torque’ display though far from being accurate never went beyond about 610Nm with my engine map but now, post xHP is showing about 630Nm … in fact only just under 640Nm !

There is a noticeable difference in torque on that display from pre xHP.

The car feels good on xHP Stage 1