[mcdanielvzw]

Originally Posted by R N M

Again Its a performance family SUV that has greater capabilities than 90% of the other cars/suvs on the road in normal driving conditions.

Its not a sports car or even a sport sedan a la M3, RS3, M5 etc.

+1, I don't think its fair or appropriate to compare something to a pure M and say "well that's not a performance automobile and shouldn't be called such, I've owned one".

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by mcdanielvzw

+1, I don't think its fair or appropriate to compare something to a pure M and say "well that's not a performance automobile and shouldn't be called such, I've owned one".

Originally Posted by R N M

Again Its a performance family SUV that has greater capabilities than 90% of the other cars/suvs on the road in normal driving conditions.

Its not a sports car or even a sport sedan a la M3, RS3, M5 etc.

I know we are getting into semantics here and I do think the X3 M40i is an insanely capable SUV... but calling it a performance SUV is somewhat of a stretch imho... an X3M is a performance SUV and if you've driven it back to back with an X3 M40i, you quickly see why it's really not a performance SUV. The X3M is way stiffer, has a far faster steering rack and has serious top end power... it also has traction control / stability control tuned to let the car slide... the m40i's suspension is purposely setup for safety as well as the staggered rear tires which prevent any slides... its stability control is setup to immediately straighten the car.... i don't see how a car that shares nearly everything with a 250 HP base 30i can be a "performance suv"... the only difference is a more powerful engine and better brakes... the suspension and chassis is identical otherwise.... "weight" aside, under this guise, we could in theory call an X6 40i a performance suv as well.

[bocabimmer]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I know we are getting into semantics here and I do think the X3 M40i is an insanely capable SUV... but calling it a performance SUV is somewhat of a stretch imho... an X3M is a performance SUV and if you've driven it back to back with an X3 M40i, you quickly see why it's really not a performance SUV. The X3M is way stiffer, has a far faster steering rack and has serious top end power... it also has traction control / stability control tuned to let the car slide... the m40i's suspension is purposely setup for safety as well as the staggered rear tires which prevent any slides... its stability control is setup to immediately straighten the car.... i don't see how a car that shares nearly everything with a 250 HP base 30i can be a "performance suv"... the only difference is a more powerful engine and better brakes... the suspension and chassis is identical otherwise.... "weight" aside, under this guise, we could in theory call an X6 40i a performance suv as well.

We’ve always agreed on this. And I’ll even take it one step further. I’ve driven an M3 and X4M back to back on a track. If I want a ‘performance vehicle’, I would never pick the SUV. BMW has worked wonders on that X4M but physics always wins.

[mcdanielvzw]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I know we are getting into semantics here and I do think the X3 M40i is an insanely capable SUV... but calling it a performance SUV is somewhat of a stretch imho... an X3M is a performance SUV and if you've driven it back to back with an X3 M40i, you quickly see why it's really not a performance SUV. The X3M is way stiffer, has a far faster steering rack and has serious top end power... it also has traction control / stability control tuned to let the car slide... the m40i's suspension is purposely setup for safety as well as the staggered rear tires which prevent any slides... its stability control is setup to immediately straighten the car.... i don't see how a car that shares nearly everything with a 250 HP base 30i can be a "performance suv"... the only difference is a more powerful engine and better brakes... the suspension and chassis is identical otherwise.... "weight" aside, under this guise, we could in theory call an X6 40i a performance suv as well.

An X3M is, for all intents and purposes, an M "car" though. I think that's where the difference lies. The M40i is performance, sure, pure M, no. The X6 M60i uses a TT V8, and is also a 1000 lbs heavier.

The 30i isn't the same suspension... it comes with a standard suspension, vs standard M Sport and optional Adaptive suspension. It may all depend on the year, but I can definitely tell a difference between my 2021 M40i M Sport and 2024 30i loaner without M sport suspension. I can't sit here and tell you I've tested the loaner body roll, because it's much harder to push the car to that point with the turbo i4 vs i6.
Edit: There are even 3 suspension options on the parts page - "Without elect. damper cntrl.. Without m sport suspension", "without electronic damper control, with m sports suspension", and "With elec. damper control, with m sport suspension"

BMW has cheated in a way using M240/M340/M40i etc in badging, but they get some M performance and driving upgrades without the "M Tax" of expensive upfront cost, expensive maintenance, and expensive parts. That's relatively speaking of course.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by mcdanielvzw

An X3M is, for all intents and purposes, an M "car" though. I think that's where the difference lies. The M40i is performance, sure, pure M, no. The X6 M60i uses a TT V8, and is also a 1000 lbs heavier.

The 30i isn't the same suspension... it comes with a standard suspension, vs standard M Sport and optional Adaptive suspension. It may all depend on the year, but I can definitely tell a difference between my 2021 M40i M Sport and 2024 30i loaner without M sport suspension. I can't sit here and tell you I've tested the loaner body roll, because it's much harder to push the car to that point with the turbo i4 vs i6.
Edit: There are even 3 suspension options on the parts page - "Without elect. damper cntrl.. Without m sport suspension", "without electronic damper control, with m sports suspension", and "With elec. damper control, with m sport suspension"

BMW has cheated in a way using M240/M340/M40i etc in badging, but they get some M performance and driving upgrades without the "M Tax" of expensive upfront cost, expensive maintenance, and expensive parts. That's relatively speaking of course.

I would call it a "faster" suv but still not a performance suv... and yes the 30i can be fitted with an identical suspension to the M40i... so does the M40i have a subpar suspension for being 382 hp or does the 30i have a superior suspension at 250 hp? I don't see how a performance suv and a grocery getter can have the same suspension.

All you need to do is look at the tire / wheel options of the m40i to get your answer, if it was a performance suv... there is no way that BMW would offer all season tires with a 19 inch wheel option that limits top speed... they would also make the M diff standard not optional lol... The M40s subpar suspension capabilities are made up by the fact that it rides on insanely stiff run flats giving it a sporty feeling... Audi doesn't even do this lol... and BMW actively made the decision to offer true M cars on non runflat tires only with a properly designed suspension... but what BMW did with the M40 cars was the easiest to give it a sport feeling without wasting time on designing a proper suspension and give it commonality across all X3s.

[Humdizzle]

'M' can mean different things to different people. Like the current M3 with its 2 ton weight and awd is a far cry from the principles that built an e30 or even e46. i'd rather have a 230i with tires and pads over an x3m for a canyon road.

Calling an X3M or X5M a real M product is like bentley making something the size of a lotus and telling us its a luxury car. you can't cheat the physics of short wheelbase vs long wheelbase hitting a bump.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I would call it a "faster" suv but still not a performance suv... and yes the 30i can be fitted with an identical suspension to the M40i... so does the M40i have a subpar suspension for being 382 hp or does the 30i have a superior suspension at 250 hp? I don't see how a performance suv and a grocery getter can have the same suspension.

All you need to do is look at the tire / wheel options of the m40i to get your answer, if it was a performance suv... there is no way that BMW would offer all season tires with a 19 inch wheel option that limits top speed... they would also make the M diff standard not optional lol... The M40s subpar suspension capabilities are made up by the fact that it rides on insanely stiff run flats giving it a sporty feeling... Audi doesn't even do this lol... and BMW actively made the decision to offer true M cars on non runflat tires only with a properly designed suspension... but what BMW did with the M40 cars was the easiest to give it a sport feeling without wasting time on designing a proper suspension and give it commonality across all X3s.

I am not at all dismayed at, nor resistant to, the appellation, "grocery getter", an honorable role to keep us well sustained. Of course, only premium groceries are suitable, meaning no generic peanut butter to clash with my Cognac Sensatec! My conclusion from, and the gist of, this series of analytical posts is that, as equipped with Dynamic Handling, Shadowline, and MSport packages, I am driving an M30i.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I am not at all dismayed at, nor resistant to, the appellation, "grocery getter", an honorable role to keep us well sustained. Of course, only premium groceries are suitable, meaning no generic peanut butter to clash with my Cognac Sensatec! My conclusion from, and the gist of, this series of analytical posts is that, as equipped with Dynamic Handling, Shadowline, and MSport packages, I am driving an M30i.

if properly equipped u are lol... bmw just couldnt name it that for marketing purposes lol... you just dont have the same brakes nor engine but if u get a jb4 tune... u become awfully close lol

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

'M' can mean different things to different people. Like the current M3 with its 2 ton weight and awd is a far cry from the principles that built an e30 or even e46. i'd rather have a 230i with tires and pads over an x3m for a canyon road.

Calling an X3M or X5M a real M product is like bentley making something the size of a lotus and telling us its a luxury car. you can't cheat the physics of short wheelbase vs long wheelbase hitting a bump.

its worthwhile to consider bmw also creates an M4 Competition X drive convertible that weighs just as much as an X3 M40i... who this car is made for or what it's purpose is, is quite unclear...

but i will also say that some M "hits" like the M2 which are light and tossable are at least imho based on personal experience not very good either... whereas to me an M3 CS... is pretty much the ultimate M car in terms of capability.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ASAP

if properly equipped u are lol... bmw just couldnt name it that for marketing purposes lol... you just dont have the same brakes nor engine but if u get a jb4 tune... u become awfully close lol

I've actually got the red caliper MSport brakes.

But, I think it's just what I've been told before for decades...

"You're a couple of cylinders short, buddy!"

[mcdanielvzw]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I would call it a "faster" suv but still not a performance suv... and yes the 30i can be fitted with an identical suspension to the M40i... so does the M40i have a subpar suspension for being 382 hp or does the 30i have a superior suspension at 250 hp? I don't see how a performance suv and a grocery getter can have the same suspension.

All you need to do is look at the tire / wheel options of the m40i to get your answer, if it was a performance suv... there is no way that BMW would offer all season tires with a 19 inch wheel option that limits top speed... they would also make the M diff standard not optional lol... The M40s subpar suspension capabilities are made up by the fact that it rides on insanely stiff run flats giving it a sporty feeling... Audi doesn't even do this lol... and BMW actively made the decision to offer true M cars on non runflat tires only with a properly designed suspension... but what BMW did with the M40 cars was the easiest to give it a sport feeling without wasting time on designing a proper suspension and give it commonality across all X3s.

This is all for conversation, not argument, so take it for what it's worth.

You're first paragraph has a skewed premise/viewpoint. Just because you can upgrade a suspension in one car to match another, doesn't automatically mean the latter has a subpar suspension. That's like saying my M Sport suspension is subpar to the adaptive suspension - maybe it isn't considering I want the same stiff, predictable ride and don't need a feature that adds hundreds of dollars cost per corner of my car when it wears out.

You're not buying a pure M car, so I can see how the suspension options can match (for an upgrade cost, mind you). Those should be special and require a significant difference to be considered as such. Does it make sense - not necessarily. BMW is pandering to the masses, so yes you're able to upgrade some aspects of basic cars to the higher end equivalents to sell more cars to people who "can't afford the higher end" or don't "need" the performance and think they'll get better MPG (hint, generally you don't between a i4 and i6). It used to be, by the time you would apply those upgrades you may as well have purchased the higher end model (in my personal opinion anyway) for roughly the same price. More recently that doesn't seem to be the case.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by mcdanielvzw

This is all for conversation, not argument, so take it for what it's worth.

You're first paragraph has a skewed premise/viewpoint. Just because you can upgrade a suspension in one car to match another, doesn't automatically mean the latter has a subpar suspension. That's like saying my M Sport suspension is subpar to the adaptive suspension - maybe it isn't considering I want the same stiff, predictable ride and don't need a feature that adds hundreds of dollars cost per corner of my car when it wears out.

You're not buying a pure M car, so I can see how the suspension options can match (for an upgrade cost, mind you). Those should be special and require a significant difference to be considered as such. Does it make sense - not necessarily. BMW is pandering to the masses, so yes you're able to upgrade some aspects of basic cars to the higher end equivalents to sell more cars to people who "can't afford the higher end" or don't "need" the performance and think they'll get better MPG (hint, generally you don't between a i4 and i6). It used to be, by the time you would apply those upgrades you may as well have purchased the higher end model (in my personal opinion anyway) for roughly the same price. More recently that doesn't seem to be the case.

Like you said conversational - so i'll give you another anecdote...

this all begin around 2005, when BMW started offering the option of a "sport", "m sport" suspension as well as base suspension on all its cars... the only thing is the "m" sport suspension and sport suspension were identical outside of badging and and whatever else came w the "m" pack that made the car look a little different. This was also right around the time BMW initially started packaging cars with runflats. As everyone knows... the first generation of runflats was VERY poor and not like today's at all... so everyone swapped non rfts (usually to michelin pss) at the time... the ride become more comfortable and more manageable but the car's handling became VERY sloppy... in my 335i and 135i, you could just see how the car would flex on turns on and didn't feel "sporty" at all as it also lost its responsiveness... this is when people started wondering what the sport suspension was and what it did if it came on a supposed performance car... and the answer that came out was - without significant upgrades to bushings, springs and struts, the suspension simply wasn't fit a for car of this caliber especially if it was meant to be pushed (300 hp at the time was a lot). This is why to this day I don't trust any bmw non true "M" suspension / tire setup when it comes to any performance driving... its fine for pedestrian activities or having a bit of fun but not fine for pushing and that removes "performance" labels from any car to me. This car has immense suspension lean in stock setup that is not worthy of even pushing into any turn... again just my opinion.

[Kiemyster]

Originally Posted by hermshk

My X3 has the adaptive dampers setup, but no M Sport Differential. Would you say that it would handle well with that setup or should I do something to fix/change it?

If you have EDC, then you are in great shape and have the best possible setup. If you want to take it the smallest step further, I would slap on some H&R lowering springs, makes the car sit better and the ride remains virtually unchanged, just a little more receptive to bumps. But its the best improvement to make as you get visual benefit of the car being slightly lowered but not to a point where it compromises your comfort. I would say it makes the car about 5-10% stiffer. I have experience with them on my F25 X3 and E70 X5M. Gonna slap them on my X3 m40i this year.

But you don't even need to do that. As it is, you have the best setup possible. only do springs if you want a slight drop, they are reasonably priced at around $250 from H&R.

[hermshk]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

If you have EDC, then you are in great shape and have the best possible setup. If you want to take it the smallest step further, I would slap on some H&R lowering springs, makes the car sit better and the ride remains virtually unchanged, just a little more receptive to bumps. But its the best improvement to make as you get visual benefit of the car being slightly lowered but not to a point where it compromises your comfort. I would say it makes the car about 5-10% stiffer. I have experience with them on my F25 X3 and E70 X5M. Gonna slap them on my X3 m40i this year.

But you don't even need to do that. As it is, you have the best setup possible. only do springs if you want a slight drop, they are reasonably priced at around $250 from H&R.

Thank you for your reply. Would you happen to know if doing this would void my CPO extended warranty?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by hermshk

Thank you for your reply. Would you happen to know if doing this would void my CPO extended warranty?

It could be the same in Canada but in the US the CPO warranty doesn't cover most, maybe all, suspension parts so there would be nothing to void if you changed them out.

[TXGrey]

uhhh.... this thread got way too deep in the weeds over the basic premise of "performance". Like just about everything else in life, the word "performance" is probably debatable across many levels. What defines "performance" to me, doesn't necessarily define "performance" for someone else. If I drove Ford Expeditions my entire life, and bought a 2024 M40i, I would think the "performance" of the M40i is probably a 9 out 10 for a car/cuv. But if I was a Bimmer aficionado who had owned 8+ Bimmers over my lifetime (and perhaps even an M car in there), then no, the M40i would not be high on my performance scale. As is the case in all areas of life, it's mostly about perspective.... objectively, I can sit here and say anyone's M3 (or M4) sucks... in relation to a Porsche GT3RS or even a GT4RS...

[jwong77]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

uhhh.... this thread got way too deep in the weeds over the basic premise of "performance". Like just about everything else in life, the word "performance" is probably debatable across many levels. What defines "performance" to me, doesn't necessarily define "performance" for someone else. If I drove Ford Expeditions my entire life, and bought a 2024 M40i, I would think the "performance" of the M40i is probably a 9 out 10 for a car/cuv. But if I was a Bimmer aficionado who had owned 8+ Bimmers over my lifetime (and perhaps even an M car in there), then no, the M40i would not be high on my performance scale. As is the case in all areas of life, it's mostly about perspective.... objectively, I can sit here and say anyone's M3 (or M4) sucks... in relation to a Porsche GT3RS or even a GT4RS...

Agreed, there are some that go even further and say anything with only two pedals isn’t a sports car at all.

[bocabimmer]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

uhhh.... this thread got way too deep in the weeds over the basic premise of "performance". Like just about everything else in life, the word "performance" is probably debatable across many levels. What defines "performance" to me, doesn't necessarily define "performance" for someone else. If I drove Ford Expeditions my entire life, and bought a 2024 M40i, I would think the "performance" of the M40i is probably a 9 out 10 for a car/cuv. But if I was a Bimmer aficionado who had owned 8+ Bimmers over my lifetime (and perhaps even an M car in there), then no, the M40i would not be high on my performance scale. As is the case in all areas of life, it's mostly about perspective.... objectively, I can sit here and say anyone's M3 (or M4) sucks... in relation to a Porsche GT3RS or even a GT4RS...

Admittedly this happens every time I drive our Expedition. Then I get back in the X3 and feel like I’m in my old 3 series until I take a few ill advised turns to quickly realize otherwise.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by bouchy

I think I've read article about this. See the new X2. It's changed to the X4 coupe shape (I don't like it, but that's me). The shift in models (in terms of philosophy) is quite shocking. I've always overlooked the older X2, but now I started to look for it. Nice town car with capabilities.
Idk, if they wanted to make room for yet another full EV, but I tend to get lost. One can buy iX1, iX3, iX5, iX (which is a completely different story), XM (and many more non-X models, that strange i3 or i8 (actually mHEV)).
When one would search the selling numbers, I think non Coupe X vs coupe X is like 8:1... it seems to be that a complete development of X4/X6 is useless.

It’s DCT is awful… very laggy.

[mcdanielvzw]

Originally Posted by bocabimmer

Admittedly this happens every time I drive our Expedition. Then I get back in the X3 and feel like I’m in my old 3 series until I take a few ill advised turns to quickly realize otherwise.

I primarily drive my loaner '24 sDrive30i to keep miles off my '21 M40i while I still have it (because, why put miles on my own car when I'm only driving to/from work lol). Outside of rentals for work, I haven't driven less than a 6 cylinder car since around 2014 and my manual Mazda 6.

Every time I drive my M40i I'm reminded how much I miss it and the performance, it's just night and day for me. Starting from a stop, acceleration for passing, and yes even the suspension stiffness/handling. The comfort of the 30i is the same and for what it is, I guess it does the job lol.

[Kiemyster]

Originally Posted by hermshk

Thank you for your reply. Would you happen to know if doing this would void my CPO extended warranty?

I cannot imagine how that would void warranty. I take my cars in for service FBO minus tune and never have any issues. So I cannot see how replacing a spring is going to void any warranty. As long as you have a good relationship with your SA it should be absolutely fine. I know many people will scare you and tell you that BMW will try to void warranty for anything, but they don't really do that. CNA primarily does their extended warranty and they are excellent as well, never had problems with them and they made many repairs on my cars with FBO and tune. So no matter if its BMW warranty direct from corporate or CNA, you will be fine by just swapping the springs. But I can't deny there is at least a 0.5% chance of it causing an issue.

[satz]

The M40 handles okay for what it is, and definetely better than less 'sporty' SUVs.

But it's still a tall, narrow (esp its track width) and fairly heavy car. Mine has the optional diff that does make a difference powering out of a corner.

But I'm sure an equivalent M sedan like the 340i would be way better.