[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Jerich0

At 1" drop would you still get a substantial increase in ride quality?

At any height, it is better than stock.
But lower gives you better handling due to lower center gravity.
But ride will still better, minus maxing out the spring travel.

Originally Posted by slicer

Let me add something as it seems folks aren't fully grasping (based on what I'm reading).

The MSS kit has a spring length and spring travel designed around lowering the ride height. If you run the adjusters at full stock ride height the spring will bottom BEFORE the bump stops. This results in the noise and abrupt bottoming that folks are describing. Imagine the spring fully bottoming - metal on metal. The lowered ride height mentioned by RG results in a softer ride because the suspension is bottoming on the bump stops which is a progressive, soft, noiseless sensation. This is counter to some of the understanding of those posting on the thread. You would typically think that a higher ride height, which has more shock travel, would yield a softer ride. This is typically true UNLESS your spring runs out of travel and bottoms out prior to shock/bump stop.

Well put. You summarized it very well. Greatly appreciate that.

[kzg1969]

Originally Posted by slicer

Let me add something as it seems folks aren't fully grasping (based on what I'm reading).

The MSS kit has a spring length and spring travel designed around lowering the ride height. If you run the adjusters at full stock ride height the spring will bottom BEFORE the bump stops. This results in the noise and abrupt bottoming that folks are describing. Imagine the spring fully bottoming - metal on metal. The lowered ride height mentioned by RG results in a softer ride because the suspension is bottoming on the bump stops which is a progressive, soft, noiseless sensation. This is counter to some of the understanding of those posting on the thread. You would typically think that a higher ride height, which has more shock travel, would yield a softer ride. This is typically true UNLESS your spring runs out of travel and bottoms out prior to shock/bump stop.

Perhaps i still misunderstand this particular kit.....

To LOWER the car, the spring platform is screwed all the way down (like in the pic below?). This must then have the least spring pre-load and so the effective spring rate is lowest. The ride should then be the most compliant.

To raise the car, you need to screw the spring platform up and this compresses the spring and the car is RAISED because you have introduced pre-load. The effective spring rate is HIGHER. This should make the car stiffer. I understand that when the car is near stock height / 0.5" lower there is the risk of coil binding and the noise that people report.

But - and the bit i dont understand - as you drop from 1" lower to 2" lower people say the suspension is LESS compliant. BUT the preload is reduced

[slicer]

Originally Posted by kzg1969

Perhaps i still misunderstand this particular kit.....

To LOWER the car, the spring platform is screwed all the way down (like in the pic below?). This must then have the least spring pre-load and so the effective spring rate is lowest. The ride should then be the most compliant.

To raise the car, you need to screw the spring platform up and this compresses the spring and the car is RAISED because you have introduced pre-load. The effective spring rate is HIGHER. This should make the car stiffer. I understand that when the car is near stock height / 0.5" lower there is the risk of coil binding and the noise that people report.

But - and the bit i dont understand - as you drop from 1" lower to 2" lower people say the suspension is LESS compliant. BUT the preload is reduced

Spring preload doesn't make the spring stiffer. Preload does nothing to the spring rate unless it's a progressive spring. I believe MSS is using a linear spring.

[sys64738]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

You need to go lower. 1" at a minimum.



Yes, lowering it to 1" drop, solve the problem.

Ok. So, next question -- is this most important to do on the FRONT springs to a 1" drop?

That is, if I take the car back into the shop this week, can I have them lower the front to a 1" drop but keep the rear springs higher in order to maintain the 6mm-15mm rake? Most of the noise that I hear over sharp bumps is from the front only. This whole "rake" issue just complicates this whole thing IMHO. I wish MSS had spent a bit more time and provided guidance on adjuster thread / height options.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by sys64738

Ok. So, next question -- is this most important to do on the FRONT springs to a 1" drop?

That is, if I take the car back into the shop this week, can I have them lower the front to a 1" drop but keep the rear springs higher in order to maintain the 6mm-15mm rake? Most of the noise that I hear over sharp bumps is from the front only. This whole "rake" issue just complicates this whole thing IMHO. I wish MSS had spent a bit more time and provided guidance on adjuster thread / height options.

I would listen to RG Sport Ben and implement exactly his recommended settings. That’s what my shop did and my MSS set performs flawlessly. Ben, being an X3M owner himself, is probably the best independent X3M mechanic you can find in this country and I am not saying this because I am his friend.

[kzg1969]

Originally Posted by slicer

Spring preload doesn't make the spring stiffer. Preload does nothing to the spring rate unless it's a progressive spring. I believe MSS is using a linear spring.

agreed - i worded it badly using the term "effective spring rate".

main point i am trying to get at though, is

• to get to stock height you introduce pre-load and the suspension will feel stiffer
• to lower, you back off pre-load and so it should feel softer

people are saying the opposite?

[allinon72]

When it comes down to it, the kit was designed to lower the ride height of the vehicle and the spring height and spring rate was matched to that purpose. Someone can correct me but I don't think MSS developed this kit to be optimized at stock ride height.

[dazzapb]

I am at stock height with mss (evolve installed) and I must say I haven't noticed the issues noted. I need to check with Imran@Evolve as to the exact setup but I am happy with the low speed ride.
Maybe I need to lower more to improve it further!

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by allinon72

When it comes down to it, the kit was designed to lower the ride height of the vehicle and the spring height and spring rate was matched to that purpose. Someone can correct me but I don't think MSS developed this kit to be optimized at stock ride height.

Well, If I remember correctly.
The UK rep that I talked to, he claimed it ranges from 10mm to 30mm.
Which I have a great trust on, since he is the manufacturer's representative.

But, that claim was based on UK road testing. I guess it seems like it doesn't have many pot holes or dips or bumps like here in the US.

Originally Posted by dazzapb

I am at stock height with mss (evolve installed) and I must say I haven't noticed the issues noted. I need to check with Imran@Evolve as to the exact setup but I am happy with the low speed ride.
Maybe I need to lower more to improve it further!

Yes, if you can find out what is the thread gap is, that would help.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by kzg1969

agreed - i worded it badly using the term "effective spring rate".

main point i am trying to get at though, is

• to get to stock height you introduce pre-load and the suspension will feel stiffer
• to lower, you back off pre-load and so it should feel softer

people are saying the opposite?

Preload has nothing to do with the stiffness

[kzg1969]

We will have to disagree on that. Spring rate, agree. Overall travel, preventing dive, etc then preload does......and that is leads to feeling of stiffness.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by kzg1969

We will have to disagree on that. Spring rate, agree. Overall travel, preventing dive, etc then preload does......and that is leads to feeling of stiffness.

If it's a linear spring that means it's the same rate throughout its travel. Preload, no preload, the rate is the rate.

[sys64738]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I would listen to RG Sport Ben and implement exactly his recommended settings. That’s what my shop did and my MSS set performs flawlessly. Ben, being an X3M owner himself, is probably the best independent X3M mechanic you can find in this country and I am not saying this because I am his friend.

Hi Alex,

I bought my springs from Ben@RG Sport and did consult with him during install. However, that was a month or two ago before the "clunking" issue was really brought to everyone's attention.

Right now I am at about a 1/2" drop, 6-8mm rake in front, and I do have the clunking issue (in the front only) over sharp bumps. So that is why my question was directed at him :-)

[James Cole]

I think you guys should try sleeves ASAP, if its coming from the springs it should eliminate the noise completely... you can even try to install some rubber strips with zip ties to make sure it works first before removing the springs.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by sys64738

Hi Alex,

I bought my springs from Ben@RG Sport and did consult with him during install. However, that was a month or two ago before the "clunking" issue was really brought to everyone's attention.

Right now I am at about a 1/2" drop, 6-8mm rake in front, and I do have the clunking issue (in the front only) over sharp bumps. So that is why my question was directed at him :-)

Try to drop more?

[JaeP]

Originally Posted by James Cole

I think you guys should try sleeves ASAP, if its coming from the springs it should eliminate the noise completely... you can even try to install some rubber strips with zip ties to make sure it works first before removing the springs.

So would adding sleeves but leaving it 1/2 inch lowered, provide a better ride ?

or to be safe just lower it to 1 inch and you get ride quality that is as good as 1/2 inch lowered and add sleeves anyway to be safe ?

The Evolve video seems to indicate that the "stock" height provided slightly better ride and they confirmed it with measurements shown on the graph.

[sys64738]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Try to drop more?

Yep - thats my plan, but the question was can I get away with just dropping the front a bit more, as right now my rake is only at 6mm or so, which is around what Ben had recommended. I can drop the rear too, but just trying to get a feel for what troubleshooting he has gone through with the other two customers he mentioned that were having the issue.

[JaeP]

Originally Posted by sys64738

Yep - thats my plan, but the question was can I get away with just dropping the front a bit more, as right now my rake is only at 6mm or so, which is around what Ben had recommended. I can drop the rear too, but just trying to get a feel for what troubleshooting he has gone through with the other two customers he mentioned that were having the issue.

Following as I'm getting mine done Thursday.

[James Cole]

Guys can you post the spring diameter to see what sleeves work?

[matt9999]

Originally Posted by sys64738

Hi Alex,

I bought my springs from Ben@RG Sport and did consult with him during install. However, that was a month or two ago before the "clunking" issue was really brought to everyone's attention.

Right now I am at about a 1/2" drop, 6-8mm rake in front, and I do have the clunking issue (in the front only) over sharp bumps. So that is why my question was directed at him :-)

The clunking noise is just an unpleasant noise when you take a spend hump too fast - its not an indication of something more sinister going on is it?

Also agree, that MSS could of helped everyone here with putting a bit more effort into their instructions.

[sys64738]

Originally Posted by James Cole

Guys can you post the spring diameter to see what sleeves work?

Maybe one of the guys getting ready to do their install can comment? Mine are installed so it wouldn't be easy to get this measurement.

[kzg1969]

Originally Posted by matt9999

The clunking noise is just an unpleasant noise when you take a spend hump too fast - its not an indication of something more sinister going on is it?

Out of curiosity, the clunk noise is when you first hit the speed bump, or on the other side on the way down?