[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

I maybe forced to look at X6s… but I have no idea how those handle compared to a X4. Guess I’ll see when the time comes…

Mass and roll center height are challenges regardless of how the roofline slopes. I think the analogy would be the difference between the X3 and X5, which some here have commented is quite noticeable and not in favor of the X5 in their opinions, reported as heavy and feeling bloated in comparison, while others prefer it for the ride comfort.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

^^^^this right here. M40i is one helluva Jack of All Trades… problem for me is, i like the styling of the X4; not incredibly crazy about the X3… and since X4s are going away, I maybe forced to look at X6s… but I have no idea how those handle compared to a X4. Guess I’ll see when the time comes…

X4 is going away? Really?

[TXGrey]

Originally Posted by JK479

X4 is going away? Really?

Well - that was the “rumor” over the past couple of years…. Have zero clue if it’s actually true. Would not surprise me, as it’s a low volume model.

[MagicJohnson]

I considered the m340 but it was pretty much the same price as m40. X3 seemed more practical. The X5 and 5-series were too big (and more expensive).

[Kiemyster]

Well, I guess I am going to piss off a lot of people here, but this is how I see it. Keeping in mind I own over 10 BMWs, mostly E90s, 2 f25s, an E70 X5M, and an E60 550i. Most of my cars are FBO, and one of my F25s is almost FBO. So having a wealth of experience between base level bmw SAVs and fully modified SAVs and same with the cars, my take on the X3 M40i is a sad one.

Long story short, it is the first BMW I ever drove that fell short of my expectations by a massive margin. Every BMW I ever drove had the correct amount of suspension action to ensure it was REALLY hard to lose control of the car, you had to be going out of your way and trying to wreck the car on purpose to really do that.

When I first got my 2020 X3 M40i, i pretty much lost control taking a ramp that I take every day going really fast all tha timeeee. After that, I never trusted the suspension in this car. Now, I am not sure if there is a DHP sort of package with EDC, but without it, the car seems to be a death trap for me. I just cant push the car to its extreme limits when cornering like I can with EVERY BMW I ever owned or drove, be it a stock car with base suspension. Hell, I nearly lost control the other day when pacing a charger on a straight road that was bumpy with a slight turn.

So, in short, this car is the only car that I actually have to govern myself more than usual to ensure I don't eat shit. I dont have this issue between my two F25 X335s, one being almost FBO with DHP and the other without EDC. I cant lose control of my non DHP/EDC F25 if I tried.

The X3 M40i does not deserve the M badge before its name. Its a damn shame. I can't beleive I had to live to see the day BMW put out a car without appropriate suspension. I remember when all BMWs were the ultimate driving machines, not just the M cars.

So to answer your question, this vehicle without EDC is dog shit for handling purposes, it is overpowered when considering power to control ratios. Any sedan will have an upper hand on this thing in terms of cornering ability and overal stability.

[Kiemyster]

Ohh, and to really answer your question, it seems that you NEED to have DHP/EDC in any BMW SAV you buy. As long as you have that you will be fine. It is not something I need in any of my sedans, my M3 has it and I could survive without it. Whatever you do, just dont buy anything other than a BMW and you should be fine. Best advice I can give you lol.

[bouchy]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

Well - that was the “rumor” over the past couple of years…. Have zero clue if it’s actually true. Would not surprise me, as it’s a low volume model.

I think I've read article about this. See the new X2. It's changed to the X4 coupe shape (I don't like it, but that's me). The shift in models (in terms of philosophy) is quite shocking. I've always overlooked the older X2, but now I started to look for it. Nice town car with capabilities.
Idk, if they wanted to make room for yet another full EV, but I tend to get lost. One can buy iX1, iX3, iX5, iX (which is a completely different story), XM (and many more non-X models, that strange i3 or i8 (actually mHEV)).
When one would search the selling numbers, I think non Coupe X vs coupe X is like 8:1... it seems to be that a complete development of X4/X6 is useless.

[Leem40i]

Originally Posted by bouchy

I think I've read article about this. See the new X2. It's changed to the X4 coupe shape (I don't like it, but that's me). The shift in models (in terms of philosophy) is quite shocking. I've always overlooked the older X2, but now I started to look for it. Nice town car with capabilities.
Idk, if they wanted to make room for yet another full EV, but I tend to get lost. One can buy iX1, iX3, iX5, iX (which is a completely different story), XM (and many more non-X models, that strange i3 or i8 (actually mHEV)).
When one would search the selling numbers, I think non Coupe X vs coupe X is like 8:1... it seems to be that a complete development of X4/X6 is useless.

Just remember this is the same design team that thought the beaver buck tooth look of the new grills was good.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by bouchy

I think I've read article about this. See the new X2. It's changed to the X4 coupe shape (I don't like it, but that's me). The shift in models (in terms of philosophy) is quite shocking. I've always overlooked the older X2, but now I started to look for it. Nice town car with capabilities.
Idk, if they wanted to make room for yet another full EV, but I tend to get lost. One can buy iX1, iX3, iX5, iX (which is a completely different story), XM (and many more non-X models, that strange i3 or i8 (actually mHEV)).
When one would search the selling numbers, I think non Coupe X vs coupe X is like 8:1... it seems to be that a complete development of X4/X6 is useless.

Don't forget, the X2 sits on the cheaper Front Wheel Drive Biased platform with a transverse mounted motor... BMW can tell us whatever they want but this is fundamentally a mini in disguise.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Don't forget, the X2 sits on the cheaper Front Wheel Drive Biased platform with a transverse mounted motor... BMW can tell us whatever they want but this is fundamentally a mini in disguise.

This depends on perspective. The folks at a MINI forum would be equally justified to say their car is a BMW in disguise. BMWAG corporate engineering staff developed the FAAR platform for use across a range of models with both brands. The UKL2 gave rise to both BMW X1/X2 and MINI Countryman, but is neither more of one than the other as those are branding and design exercises on top of the common platform. The core engineering is BMWAG corporate. This is common throughout the industry.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/8-gm-su...me-underneath/

Is one platform more a "GMC" or a "Cadillac" if used for both marketing teams?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

This depends on perspective. The folks at a MINI forum would be equally justified to say their car is a BMW in disguise. BMWAG corporate engineering staff developed the FAAR platform for use across a range of models with both brands. The UKL2 gave rise to both BMW X1/X2 and MINI Countryman, but is neither more of one than the other as those are branding and design exercises on top of the common platform. The core engineering is BMWAG corporate. This is common throughout the industry.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/8-gm-su...me-underneath/

Is one platform more a "GMC" or a "Cadillac" if used for both marketing teams?

Gonna have to disagree with the perspective then... BMW has 2 different platforms - CLAR and like you said UKL... UKL is what Mini is based on with a FWD setup as well as transversly mounted motors. The DCTs used in these cars are shared with the UKL BMWs as well. Shared platforms are purely a cost savings exercise and BMWAG realized they can create a platform that share and disguise as a more expensive gussied up BMW to sell for more.

Ask yourself what the "ethos" of BMW and its roots are? Hint - its RWD, longitudally placed motors w a good front to rear weight balance... the UKL platform is not that. BMW simply learned from VW / Audi that is an easy way to make $ and save costs so they went for it... Is BMW more of a company of the last 10 years or the prior 60? You can only answer that question for yourself.

I personally would have kept the platforms to the separate brands but BMW doesn't really care about how a car drives anymore or any real premium feeling so we get a UKL 2 series. Luckily for me, the G01 is on the RWD biased CLAR w a I6 platform... and when I drive it... i can easily tell that. Also with your GM - Cadillac example, I don't know of any C1 based performance vehicles... yet BMW has a supposed X2 M35i... kind of takes it too far imho.

[hermshk]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

Ohh, and to really answer your question, it seems that you NEED to have DHP/EDC in any BMW SAV you buy. As long as you have that you will be fine. It is not something I need in any of my sedans, my M3 has it and I could survive without it. Whatever you do, just dont buy anything other than a BMW and you should be fine. Best advice I can give you lol.

My X3 has the adaptive dampers setup, but no M Sport Differential. Would you say that it would handle well with that setup or should I do something to fix/change it?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Gonna have to disagree with the perspective then... BMW has 2 different platforms - CLAR and like you said UKL... UKL is what Mini is based on with a FWD setup as well as transversly mounted motors. The DCTs used in these cars are shared with the UKL BMWs as well. Shared platforms are purely a cost savings exercise and BMWAG realized they can create a platform that share and disguise as a more expensive gussied up BMW to sell for more.

Ask yourself what the "ethos" of BMW and its roots are? Hint - its RWD, longitudally placed motors w a good front to rear weight balance... the UKL platform is not that. BMW simply learned from VW / Audi that is an easy way to make $ and save costs so they went for it... Is BMW more of a company of the last 10 years or the prior 60? You can only answer that question for yourself.

I personally would have kept the platforms to the separate brands but BMW doesn't really care about how a car drives anymore or any real premium feeling so we get a UKL 2 series. Luckily for me, the G01 is on the RWD biased CLAR w a I6 platform... and when I drive it... i can easily tell that. Also with your GM - Cadillac example, I don't know of any C1 based performance vehicles... yet BMW has a supposed X2 M35i... kind of takes it too far imho.

We agree on the facts. My 10-year old rwd, 6MT, 228i and I especially agree with you about the BMW brand! The interpretation of what brand arose from which platform underlies the perspective difference. Assume BMW didn't own the MINI brand, but wanted to produce a small, lower cost vehicle. Had they produced the UKL2 only for themselves, they would be open to all the same criticism you noted above. Whether they would or would not (or should or should not) have pursued these lower end segments without the economy of scale of both brands is not known. But, for the package and price point, it is a logical platform for entry level models. Perhaps, the argument is that BMW shouldn't spread their brand this far down to entry level to have to abandon their historical engineering principles you noted for economics. But, having done so, they were able to add MINI volume to the non-specific platform program to help amortize investment of this corporate program. Where we diverge on interpretation is that having BMWAG engineering develop a platform doesn't inherently make it a "BMW" until it's used for a BMW-branded car. This also applies to the work corporate staff does for Rolls Royce. BMW corporate staff does the work, but are folks complaining that RR is a BMW in disguise? The vehicle only becomes a "MINI" branded car once the MINI team is able to utilize this originally neutral-identity piece of engineering work. I relate to this thinking back to when my prior OEM employer developed common platforms that were used across more than one brand. We never referred to the platform with retail market brand identity. It was always just the platform letter codes. The sheetmetal shape, interiors design, and badges were brand-driven decisions on top of this shared corporate engineering work.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

We agree on the facts. My 10-year old rwd, 6MT, 228i and I especially agree with you about the BMW brand! The interpretation of what brand arose from which platform underlies the perspective difference. Assume BMW didn't own the MINI brand, but wanted to produce a small, lower cost vehicle. Had they produced the UKL2 only for themselves, they would be open to all the same criticism you noted above. Whether they would or would not (or should or should not) have pursued these lower end segments without the economy of scale of both brands is not known. But, for the package and price point, it is a logical platform for entry level models. Perhaps, the argument is that BMW shouldn't spread their brand this far down to entry level to have to abandon their historical engineering principles you noted for economics. But, having done so, they were able to add MINI volume to the non-specific platform program to help amortize investment of this corporate program. Where we diverge on interpretation is that having BMWAG engineering develop a platform doesn't inherently make it a "BMW" until it's used for a BMW-branded car. This also applies to the work corporate staff does for Rolls Royce. BMW corporate staff does the work, but are folks complaining that RR is a BMW in disguise? The vehicle only becomes a "MINI" branded car once the MINI team is able to utilize this originally neutral-identity piece of engineering work. I relate to this thinking back to when my prior OEM employer developed common platforms that were used across more than one brand. We never referred to the [...]

I agree with you... but in terms of the RR example... i would ask myself is bmw making a better RR than RR did? The answer unequivocally imho is yes which is why no one complains and there is little to no cost cutting done there and rightfully so as its a 500k car. The engines, tech, reliability is better with bmw than before...

Whearas bmw sharing w a lower class ie mini, the trend somewhat heads in the other direction diluting the brand... again, i am not saying right or wrong, I just know if i was looking at a fwd biased car, I'd buy the Audi equivalent personally.

[R N M]

Besides the X3 M40i - i also have F80 M3 and 991 911 as a basis for my comments.

In most situations the X3 M40i is more than adequate and my has the 20in staggered setup. I even took it on the Smokey Mountains.

It’s great up to 7/10s handling and very good at high speed stability. Steering is heavy but not as quick / direct as a sedan. The biggest issues are when you are pushing it hard on the Highway and switching lanes you feel the extra weight up top. When you go on back roads, its good up to a certain speed but then there are limitations with the center of gravity that would not be the same on a sedan.

I can run same back roads faster in M3 with minimal effort. As good as M3 is, the 911 is just another level as its more direct and has almost no issue even in the tightest corners, my car does have rear wheel steer so that helps also.

If you came from a regular sedan, I think M40i would meet 99% of your driving requirements. It’s a great performance SUV that offers lots of interior and trunk space.

[hermshk]

Originally Posted by R N M

Besides the X3 M40i - i also have F80 M3 and 991 911 as a basis for my comments.

In most situations the X3 M40i is more than adequate and my has the 20in staggered setup. I even took it on the Smokey Mountains.

It’s great up to 7/10s handling and very good at high speed stability. Steering is heavy but not as quick / direct as a sedan. The biggest issues are when you are pushing it hard on the Highway and switching lanes you feel the extra weight up top. When you go on back roads, its good up to a certain speed but then there are limitations with the center of gravity that would not be the same on a sedan.

I can run same back roads faster in M3 with minimal effort. As good as M3 is, the 911 is just another level as its more direct and has almost no issue even in the tightest corners, my car does have rear wheel steer so that helps also.

If you came from a regular sedan, I think M40i would meet 99% of your driving requirements. It’s a great performance SUV that offers lots of interior and trunk space.

Thanks for the input. I find it shocking that the X3 can satisfy you, despite you coming from extremely capable performance cars. I noticed a lot of people on the forum compare the X3 to F8X cars.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by hermshk

Thanks for the input. I find it shocking that the X3 can satisfy you, despite you coming from extremely capable performance cars. I noticed a lot of people on the forum compare the X3 to F8X cars.

If you go on Rennlist, lots of Porsche guys have X3 M40.
What other family SUV offers performance close to it?

Again it satisfies me up to 7/10ths of its limit. I certainly don’t choose it over M3 to go on a run on backroads but its more capable than 90% of other cars on the road in my everyday driving situations.

BTW i was close to getting 540i before we got another X3 last year but the rear space is so much less and so i the trunk space. Much more difficult when you have young kids hopping in and out, car seats etc.

[hermshk]

Originally Posted by R N M

If you go on Rennlist, lots of Porsche guys have X3 M40.
What other family SUV offers performance close to it?

Again it satisfies me up to 7/10ths of its limit. I certainly don’t choose it over M3 to go on a run on backroads but its more capable than 90% of other cars on the road in my everyday driving situations.

BTW i was close to getting 540i before we got another X3 last year but the rear space is so much less and so i the trunk space. Much more difficult when you have young kids hopping in and out, car seats etc.

I’d imagine the Porsche guys would gravitate towards Macan/Cayenne

Funny enough I also considered 540i. I wanted a B58 and the 540i and M40I were the 2 that were in budget. If I wanted a 3 series I’d have had to have gone down to the F30. And insurance would be too expensive for me in any 2 door BMW (in my early 20’s)

So it really came down down to 540i or X3M40

[jwong77]

Originally Posted by hermshk

I’d imagine the Porsche guys would gravitate towards Macan/Cayenne

Funny enough I also considered 540i. I wanted a B58 and the 540i and M40I were the 2 that were in budget. If I wanted a 3 series I’d have had to have gone down to the F30. And insurance would be too expensive for me in any 2 door BMW (in my early 20’s)

So it really came down down to 540i or X3M40

I own a Porsche albeit an older one, a 993, and I test drove the Macan S prior to purchasing my X3 M40i. While the Macan is a great, I feel the price delta wasn't worth it for my needs. I bet a lot of other folks probably felt the same.

This was what made my decision:
1. They both felt plenty fast enough for everyday use.
2. While the Macan handled slightly better, they both seemed to handle good enough for everyday family hauler use.
3. The X3 has a much more usable interior space, especially the trunk.

As I see it, if I was going to drive my car for fun, I'd take one of my sports cars. But as an everyday vehicle that is a little more fun and less mundane, the X3 M40i is a genuine sweet spot. Also, I enjoy the pops and bangs because nobody expects it from my car haha.

I also, owned a G30 back in 2017, it was likely the nicest car I've ever owned from an interior perspective, but I find the height of a crossover/CUV to be better for everyday use. This is especially true for the failing urban infrastructure that I sometimes have to encounter.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by hermshk

Thanks for the input. I find it shocking that the X3 can satisfy you, despite you coming from extremely capable performance cars. I noticed a lot of people on the forum compare the X3 to F8X cars.

I come from an F87 M2 Comp...

The X3 M40i is by no means a "performance" vehicle for 3 reasons-

1. Too High (CG)
2. Too Soft
3. Too Heavy

It however impresses me a lot when compared to my F87 m2...

It has better traction in every way, you can launch it better, it is far more stable and the suspension is far more compliant on any roads that are not bumpy. There are many onramps where the car feels more stable, predictable and better than my F87 M2. It clearly cannot take a turn like an F87 can, nor stop as fast... but it can do other performance metrics far better. It's also far more comfortable and a way better daily driver... again, not comparable cars but i would not go back to an f87 again, if thats what you are wondering...

[R N M]

Originally Posted by hermshk

I’d imagine the Porsche guys would gravitate towards Macan/Cayenne

Funny enough I also considered 540i. I wanted a B58 and the 540i and M40I were the 2 that were in budget. If I wanted a 3 series I’d have had to have gone down to the F30. And insurance would be too expensive for me in any 2 door BMW (in my early 20’s)

So it really came down down to 540i or X3M40

Macan can’t be used a family SUV - it has a tight back seat and a lot less trunk space.

The base Cayenne and the S use Audi powertrain. I would pick the B58 any day.
The Cayenne GTS with V8 is superior but its significantly more expensive than X3 M40.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I come from an F87 M2 Comp...

The X3 M40i is by no means a "performance" vehicle for 3 reasons-

1. Too High (CG)
2. Too Soft
3. Too Heavy
..

Again Its a performance family SUV that has greater capabilities than 90% of the other cars/suvs on the road in normal driving conditions.

Its not a sports car or even a sport sedan a la M3, RS3, M5 etc.