[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by avi66

In decades or driving all over the UK including the Highlands in winter, I’ve never used anything but the stock tyres without incident.

Good fortune is upon you and may it continue!

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Good fortune is upon you and may it continue!

As with all things luck plays a role. It was 15’ to the cliff edge, but as I went over on the icy road, I had that warm fuzzy feeling knowing the winter tyres would stop in 21’ lol

Drive according to the conditions.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by avi66

As with all things luck plays a role. It was 15” to the cliff edge, but as I went over on the icy road, I had that warm fuzzy feeling knowing the winter tyres would stop in 21” lol

Drive according to the conditions.

May any "other guys" in your path do likewise!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Good fortune is upon you and may it continue!

We do have a problem here in the UK with drivers feeling there is no need for winter tyres, and the old "drive to the conditions" comments.

I'll add, "proper tools for the job".

I've seen it so many times, drivers on summer tyres, dancing all over the road, (or in the ditch), in conditions where winter tyres would get them around no issues at all, plus much safer.

Last time I had to drive after a snow storm, drivers were driving at about 10mph and some pulling off the road, when on winter tyres it was absolutely safe to drive over 30mph, with excellent control and braking ability.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

We do have a problem here in the UK with drivers feeling there is no need for winter tyres, and the old "drive to the conditions" comments.

I'll add, "proper tools for the job".

I've seen it so many times, drivers on summer tyres, dancing all over the road, (or in the ditch), in conditions where winter tyres would get them around no issues at all, plus much safer.

Last time I had to drive after a snow storm, drivers were driving at about 10mph and some pulling off the road, when on winter tyres it was absolutely safe to drive over 30mph, with excellent control and braking ability.

We also see this in the U.S. When I lived in Michigan, much of the population fell prey to the misleading marketing of the "magic" of 4WD/AWD. Although it actually only helps with getting moving, somehow (and we've heard this in focus groups), people think it is a generally more "robust/capable" vehicle that can go/stop/turn better and doesn't need winter tires. There are threads about "AWD/4WD OR Winter Tires". The question should never be phrased as "or", of course. Consequentially, we saw many highway ditches with various brands of SUVs in them and the news did the story that they are almost always on so-called "all season" original factory tires. And, by the way, the reason they wound up there is always the other guy's fault.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

We also see this in the U.S. When I lived in Michigan, much of the population fell prey to the misleading marketing of the "magic" of 4WD/AWD. Although it actually only helps with getting moving, somehow (and we've heard this in focus groups), people think it is a generally more "robust/capable" vehicle that can go/stop/turn better and doesn't need winter tires. There are threads about "AWD/4WD OR Winter Tires". The question should never be phrased as "or", of course. Consequentially, we saw many highway ditches with various brands of SUVs in them and the news did the story that they are almost always on so-called "all season" original factory tires. And, by the way, the reason they wound up there is always the other guy's fault.

Very similar over here in the UK, even for folks driving up here in the Highlands. Many thought AWD/4WD was the answer for driving in snow conditions. Many AWD vehicles over here come with high performance summer tyres as standard, not even an all season option.

Hard to explain to some users that RWD on winter tyres is far better on slush and snow, and safer, than AWD/4WD on performance summer tyres. I've been passenger in an X3 running summer tyres on snow, it definitely emphasises my often quoted statement, "if you can't stop, don't start moving".

[Keefy]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

We also see this in the U.S. When I lived in Michigan, much of the population fell prey to the misleading marketing of the "magic" of 4WD/AWD. Although it actually only helps with getting moving, somehow (and we've heard this in focus groups), people think it is a generally more "robust/capable" vehicle that can go/stop/turn better and doesn't need winter tires. There are threads about "AWD/4WD OR Winter Tires". The question should never be phrased as "or", of course. Consequentially, we saw many highway ditches with various brands of SUVs in them and the news did the story that they are almost always on so-called "all season" original factory tires. And, by the way, the reason they wound up there is always the other guy's fault.

That's also prevalent in the UK, many people think that because their car has 4WD or AWD think their car can cope or travel in any conditions, wet, dry or snow because their car has AWD, when in fact the only thing connecting their car to the road is the tyres.

So for me this year it'll be interesting to see what advantages the dedicated winter tyre will give me over a dedicated summer tyre in winter conditions, an example is my mate has the same car as me, he has the m40i and I have the m40d, he had summer tyres on last winter and lived at the bottom of a small hill, he struggled to get to the top of the hill with summers, he changed to winters and had no problems, point being, if you fit a tyre that's suitable to the conditions and temperatures then it may be safer to run a dedicated tyre to that conditions.

Everyone will be different but its certainly interesting!

[avi66]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

We do have a problem here in the UK with drivers feeling there is no need for winter tyres, and the old "drive to the conditions" comments.

I'll add, "proper tools for the job".

I've seen it so many times, drivers on summer tyres, dancing all over the road, (or in the ditch), in conditions where winter tyres would get them around no issues at all, plus much safer.

Last time I had to drive after a snow storm, drivers were driving at about 10mph and some pulling off the road, when on winter tyres it was absolutely safe to drive over 30mph, with excellent control and braking ability.

The real problem is many drivers don’t adapt to the road conditions, even those with winter tyres, who may feel they don’t need to adapt.

The guy who side swipes you at 70mph, makes no difference what tyres you have.

I was a road warrior for a number of years doing well in excess of 20k miles pa.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by avi66

The guy who side swipes you at 70mph, makes no difference what tyres you have.

But, if you have a moment to react, how you're connected to the ground (even on snow/ice) may give you an advantage for avoidance.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

But, if you have a moment to react, how you're connected to the ground (even on snow/ice) may give you an advantage for avoidance.

Plus, when we talk of adapting to the conditions, the driver on appropriate tyres, who has adapted to the conditions, has a clear advantage of having a 'greater safety envelope', which can usually be used to help when others reach their limits.

I can say winter tyres have assisted me several times, to escape accidents, when others have gone beyond the limits of their tyres. One experience, a vehicle coming the other way out of control, about to overturn into my path. Braking distance saved me from a major collision.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

But, if you have a moment to react, how you're connected to the ground (even on snow/ice) may give you an advantage for avoidance.

Or not, it’s luck in many cases.

Just like accidents when summer tyres are the perfect choice, they still happen, even though how you’re connection to the ground maybe ideal.

At the end of the day it’s personal choice.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Plus, when we talk of adapting to the conditions, the driver on appropriate tyres, who has adapted to the conditions, has a clear advantage of having a 'greater safety envelope', which can usually be used to help when others reach their limits.

I can say winter tyres have assisted me several times, to escape accidents, when others have gone beyond the limits of their tyres. One experience, a vehicle coming the other way out of control, about to overturn into my path. Braking distance saved me from a major collision.

So no accidents happen in summer in ideal conditions for summer tyres ?

As above, it’s personal choice and I’m not trying to convince anyone. It’s just not a choice for me in 30 years of driving.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by avi66

Or not, it’s luck in many cases.

Just like accidents when summer tyres are the perfect choice, they still happen, even though how you’re connection to the ground maybe ideal.

At the end of the day it’s personal choice.

Originally Posted by avi66

So no accidents happen in summer in ideal conditions for summer tyres ?

As above, it’s personal choice and I’m not trying to convince anyone. It’s just not a choice for me in 30 years of driving.

Absolutely personal choice...not trying to "sell"...just discussing theory here.

Accidents will always happen, no matter the car, environment, tires. I recall when at my prior OEM company in my career-step role in the Safety Office we would get letters from parents asking what is a "safe" car for their kids. The answer was always the same. There is no brightline definition of when something transitions between "safe" and "unsafe". Safety is a matter of risk management and risk reduction. No panacea ever invented has gotten us to zero, tires included. It becomes a strategic decision of weighing costs and benefits of each decision and action as to whether or not it makes a meaningful improvement. Data and experience help inform these decisions, but the pursuit of making it better never ends. For some of us, the correlation of seasons and tires has sufficient evidence to take the extra steps necessary.

[Keefy]

Some great discussions here on a topic that certainly interests me, given my location and the conditions that I'll see over the winter months.

We don't all agree with each other on everything but it certainly generates some great conversations, that may give you the information that you require.