[avi66]

And so it starts…….

Looks like the “ban” on new petrol and diesel cars in the UK is moving from 2030 to 2035. Wonder if it will move again or others will follow ?

I’m sure Wales will do it own thing and announce a move from cars to horse and trap to go with the 20mph speed limit. WOKE gone wild lol

[stroberaver]

Banning the sale of ICE cars in 2030, five years ahead of the equivalent target in the EU, was always a monumental act of self-harm to the country. There is not, and never was, a chance in hell of having the necessary infrastructure or electricity generation within that timeframe to be able to support an enforced transition to non-ICE vehicles.

It has always been the same when governments decide to intervene in customer choice and marketplaces. No govt passed legislation to get people to give up their horses and move to cars, because the new solution was simply better. Whilst we're not talking about radical changes in terms of the concept of private transport i.e. a car, intervening in deciding what energy source people must use is doomed to failure.

BEVs absolutely do have their place and offer advantages in some scenarios over other energy sources, but ideally we should be looking at a mix of energy sources. Some will need petrol or diesel, some will need electricity, some hydrogen. Rather than "petrol stations", we should have "energy stations" where you can go and get whatever energy source works for you, or works for that area.

However I think it's hard to see the ICE ban moving back beyond 2035 right now, because that aligns with the date set by a much larger market - the EU - which we have commonality with in terms of vehicle models, type approvals, etc. Of course in another few years as the 2035 deadline looms closer, even the EU might realise that shutting down nuclear reactors and having no strategy for green electricity means that forcing everyone into electric cars might not be the greatest idea...

[avi66]

Originally Posted by stroberaver

another few years as the 2035 deadline looms closer, even the EU might realise that shutting down nuclear reactors and having no strategy for green electricity means that forcing everyone into electric cars might not be the greatest idea...

Who knows what state the world will be in by then. Imagine if Ukraine was reliant on the electricity grid to charge the cars etc of its population.

Personally, I will avoid putting any money into BEV, as it’s just being forced down our throats for political reasons, not environmental.

[Keefy]

Add 5-10 years onto the EU date and you might be in the ballpark for when the infrastructure in the UK to be up to an acceptable standard for mainstream EV….the country is in a shit state economically so I’m not all surprised of any delays…..which is great news for us ICE car enthusiasts.

[Dilbert2402]

So the massive crashing sound everyone in the UK heard to was the aspiration bus running into the reality mountain! Finding the £10b’s to prepare for changes required for net zero in 2050 and getting the infrastructure in place to allow ice vehicles to be phased out can’t be achieved in 7 years. Even with a 12 year timescale the current rate of progress is way too slow.

[Keefy]

The problem with the British government is that they like to put on the initial start date earlier than the EU to gain publicity brownie points, knowing they won’t meet those targets but they’ve gained positive media exposure, 6-12 months later they drop the bombshell they can’t meet the proposed dates and change them…..it’s comical at times but you can read them like a book.

[HeatJoey]

Complete stupidity and I hope it never Happens, it’s it saving anything to switch to evs

[spangle1980]

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/eac...-co2-emissions

The term 'pissing in the wind' comes to mind.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by spangle1980

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/eac...-co2-emissions

The term 'pissing in the wind' comes to mind.

Wow, this pretty much says it all.

If every vehicle in the UK was EV what impact would that have globally v the cost to the UK?

[GDEvans]

Originally Posted by Keefy

Add 5-10 years onto the EU date and you might be in the ballpark for when the infrastructure in the UK to be up to an acceptable standard for mainstream EV….the country is in a shit state economically so I’m not all surprised of any delays…..which is great news for us ICE car enthusiasts.

I doubt we will be there by 2035. All the EV charging companies will now cut in half their planned spending on expanding the network. They will love the announcement. It will only be overused charge stations that get expanded, to keep the profits up.

[GDEvans]

Originally Posted by stroberaver

However I think it's hard to see the ICE ban moving back beyond 2035 right now, because that aligns with the date set by a much larger market - the EU - which we have commonality with in terms of vehicle models, type approvals, etc. Of course in another few years as the 2035 deadline looms closer, even the EU might realise that shutting down nuclear reactors and having no strategy for green electricity means that forcing everyone into electric cars might not be the greatest idea...

The ban is largely immaterial. It has only been put into law in the EU - the UK has so far put nothing into statute. Labour may well change it back if they win the next election.

The car manufacturers will dictate the pace. Ford and Jaguar have already said that they will be completely electric (no hybrids) in Europe before 2030. With car manufacturers planning their ranges about 8 years in advance, it is highly unlikely that this will change significantly - possibly slipping of a year or so. Other manufacturers will be following similar timescales.

The BMW range of EVs have been expanding rapidly. Having made the switch to the iX3 almost 2 years ago, I can confidently say I'm not going back. It is easily the best car I have owned. And I consider myself a petrolhead, having had a succession of performance cars. I've got my eye on the next Porsche Boxster which is reputedly going to be electric.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by GDEvans

The BMW range of EVs have been expanding rapidly. Having made the switch to the iX3 almost 2 years ago, I can confidently say I'm not going back. It is easily the best car I have owned. And I consider myself a petrolhead, having had a succession of performance cars. I've got my eye on the next Porsche Boxster which is reputedly going to be electric.

I’ve already ruled out Jaguar for my next car due to EV, and depending on BMW availability, I will investigate used ICE at my next change, or keep my current car for longer.

Having driven several EV’s, including BMW, I have less than zero interest, either because they are soulless or offer poor mileage compared to 1000km+ on a 5 minute fill.

Different folks, different strokes, as I can confidently say I’ll avoid EV until I need a mobility scooter lol

[spangle1980]

I mean - what if, WHAT IF they got some EV that had not only a cool soundtrack inside, but some waterproof BOSE type shit under the hood with a sub that could push out some pre-fabricated realistic V8 notes? Would that work?

Actually not, you're right still the charging issues. Let's wait for hydrogen or whatever will be next. UK will never in at least 20 years (look at HS2!) be game ready for the populous to be EV ready.

[AP]

The public were never consulted on this, to me this seemed mad.
I can why manufacturers have been upset especially the likes of jaguar who have geared themselves up for solely EVs going forward

The lies of bmw that are still produce ice and EVs will fair best. The market will dictate how this goes , I expect anyone who was considering an ev now as a private buyer may potentially reconsider and this decision may well sway them back to ice

The whole approach needed to be more pragmatic
There’s a lot to be said for keeping an existing car going rather than buying a new ev that was made in china using electricity sources from coal fired power stations
When you step back and look at it is utter madness

I’d like to see sustainable fuels market increase and get the price down considerably
Hydrogen I always thought would be the long term way
Hydrogen combustion engines also lol promising and that looks like the most likely way forward for trucks and lorries in my opinion

We jist need to get rid of these blanket 20mph limits(fine in some places but not a blanket change) and low traffic neighbourhoods

Honestly I’ve never really taken much interest in politics but the last few years is highlighting what a mess this country is in and I’ll be blunt, what morons we have in charge (that’s both main parties). They are such an embarrassment and they just don’t get how kissed off the public are

This has the potential to be a subject along the lines of the poll tax issues years back

Ah that’s better, had to get that off my chest!

Now to go out for a drive in my v8 m550!

[GDEvans]

Originally Posted by spangle1980

Actually not, you're right still the charging issues. Let's wait for hydrogen or whatever will be next. UK will never in at least 20 years (look at HS2!) be game ready for the populous to be EV ready.

Hydrogen won't ever be a viable solution for cars. By the time you go through the process of creating the hydrogen using electricity, transporting, storing and burning in a fuel cell, it is one third the efficiency of just using the electricity. Yes you might go further on a tank, but the cost will be considerably higher.

Lithium Ion batteries are improving. Based on current improvement rates, they reckon that energy density (energy per unit of weight) will double by 2030, giving double the range for the same weight/price of battery, or the same range for half the weight and price. However, that doesn't remove the limitations of charge speed and safety concerns.

The real solution is solid state batteries. Toyota (and Ford and BMW) are having a bit more of a push on them, and reckon they will come to market in 2028 (where have we heard that before?). The current solid state batteries have triple the energy density of current Li-ion batteries = 3x the range for the same weight. They are almost non-combustible, and have no risk of thermal runaway. Charging takes a fraction of the time - I have heard 10%. The problem at present is the cost: it is reckoned they will be down to about $600/kWh by 2026, although this will fall with mass production. This compares to Li-ion's $200/kWh (dropping to $100/kWh by 2030).

[avi66]

Originally Posted by AP

I’d like to see sustainable fuels market increase and get the price down considerably
Hydrogen I always thought would be the long term way
Hydrogen combustion engines also lol promising and that looks like the most likely way forward for trucks and lorries in my opinion

I hope Hydrogen plays a greater role in future, particularly the focus on reduced production costs. IIRC BMW is showcasing an X5 Hydrogen powered model, and JCB mentioned it would take a battery weighing a massive amount to power their machines, hence the focus on Hydrogen.

I suspect we will hit the old problem of raw materials availability with batteries, as only so many places have stuff needed, and these are usually the less stable or play nice places. Also, how long before we see the environmental impact of increased mining to meet battery demand for EV’s lol.

[avi66]

Ever wondered why that dealer sakes guy really pushes EV here in the UK ?

[Keefy]

Originally Posted by avi66

I hope Hydrogen plays a greater role in future, particularly the focus on reduced production costs. IIRC BMW is showcasing an X5 Hydrogen powered model, and JCB mentioned it would take a battery weighing a massive amount to power their machines, hence the focus on Hydrogen.

I suspect we will hit the old problem of raw materials availability with batteries, as only so many places have stuff needed, and these are usually the less stable or play nice places. Also, how long before we see the environmental impact of increased mining to meet battery demand for EV’s lol.

Yeah BMW has released a concept/pre production model, think they are 5 in the US right now being tested.

Looks fine, in fact I'd even keep the silly looking HYDROGEN decals to help prevent the activists from letting the air down in the tyres

[avi66]

Lol the latest is a 10% potential tax on BEV cars imported/exported from UK/EU due to battery origin rules that come into play in January.

Apparently EU/Uk battery production isn’t able to meet the local UK/EU car industry demand, due lack of local investment, so batteries are being imported from outside the UK/EU.

According to the car manufactures, unless the UK/EU postpone this rule, any cost increase will be passed on to the consumer.