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      12-21-2021, 05:38 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Oldgixxer View Post
Bone stock X3MC LCI
Very nice!! Impressive times.
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      12-21-2021, 07:27 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by 10SecGG View Post
Very nice!! Impressive times.
Ya thanks lol

If I was back in NY with 20f temps and -2000 DA,I'm confident it'd go at least a 11.5x@12x mph
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      12-22-2021, 12:20 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Oldgixxer View Post
Ya thanks lol

If I was back in NY with 20f temps and -2000 DA,I'm confident it'd go at least a 11.5x@12x mph
Those are impressive times for a factory stock vehicle.. stupid fast, in fact. Wasn’t so long ago it took a lot of mods to achieve an 11 second pass in a RACE CAR, much less a street driven car. Congrats on your times, and keep us posted if you do indeed get that 11.5x pass. I for one would love to see it.
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      12-22-2021, 03:47 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by 10SecGG View Post
Those are impressive times for a factory stock vehicle.. stupid fast, in fact. Wasn’t so long ago it took a lot of mods to achieve an 11 second pass in a RACE CAR, much less a street driven car. Congrats on your times, and keep us posted if you do indeed get that 11.5x pass. I for one would love to see it.
Thanks. Thoroughly impressed w this vehicle. When I lived back North and would do track rentals with other enthusiasts we would wait for this time of year and chase the negative DA at either MIR or Atco w the sole intent on breaking Stock 1/4mi records. Back in 2007 I was the first to run an 11sec 1/4mi w an '07 E63 AMG(stock) and now my 4700lb SUV laughs at 11.9s lol!

Now it's just for fun
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      12-22-2021, 06:42 AM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldgixxer View Post
Thanks. Thoroughly impressed w this vehicle. When I lived back North and would do track rentals with other enthusiasts we would wait for this time of year and chase the negative DA at either MIR or Atco w the sole intent on breaking Stock 1/4mi records. Back in 2007 I was the first to run an 11sec 1/4mi w an '07 E63 AMG(stock) and now my 4700lb SUV laughs at 11.9s lol!

Now it's just for fun
Thanks for sharing your Dragy, Oldgixxer. I also chase the dream of low DAs with sunny skies to see what our bone stock F97s can do. Here in the Deep South for those factors to align on the few Saturdays of an 'All Welcome Test-N-Tune' at our local Strip is rare, though, unfortunately.

Looking forward to seeing more of your contributions.
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      12-22-2021, 06:59 AM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
Thanks for sharing your Dragy, Oldgixxer. I also chase the dream of low DAs with sunny skies to see what our bone stock F97s can do. Here in the Deep South for those factors to align on the few Saturdays of an 'All Welcome Test-N-Tune' at our local Strip is rare, though, unfortunately.

Looking forward to seeing more of your contributions.
Thank you Max.
Maybe we should plan a Feb/March private rental at Maryland Int Raceway for the forum and crush some 1/4mi times?
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      01-17-2022, 09:52 AM   #381
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Details from GNV Raceway on 15 Jan 2022

DA was better than before, but couldn't source higher Octane or E85 so just Shell 93. Wanting to try differing tire psi I started at 36F/39R. Got talking to others in the Staging lanes so forgot to check before the 2nd run which was a mistake as psi had gone up to 39F/42R and I had some fish-tailing. I didn't include that run in the spreadsheet or Dragy. Third and fourth runs were 36F/37R, and 34F/35R for the last. Every run had at least some spin through first and occ into second, and right as I was launching on the last one I could even hear the Announcer over the radio comment 'lets see if he can break 11.7s if there isn't any spin...' So I still have work to do finding the best tire pressures for these varying DAs and track conditions, and at some point, new tires.

Overall, pleased with the quickest results in 3rd run of 11.700s at 117.68mph, DA +665, but would've been interesting to see what 100 Octane would've allowed. Note was given a ticket torn in half on the first run as her printer malfunctioned... Also - Dragy remains inaccurate calculating slope in the 0-60mph (doesn't matter at a Strip but makes it hard to trust at unknown locations)...

So as shared in the Delivery thread, seems the LCI is pretty much on par with the pre-LCI in terms of performance, at least based on what I've seen so far (25 runs in the pre-, 9 with the LCI). Will be interesting to see what others find as well.

Edit, 28 Apr 2022 107PM - attaching link to the DRACS YouTube video someone made of my first run vs a 911 Turbo S as previously shared in my Delivery thread

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Last edited by Max Well; 04-28-2022 at 12:09 PM.. Reason: Added link to the DRACS Youtube Video of 1st run vs 911 Turbo S which was previously shared in my Delivery thread
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      02-28-2022, 07:39 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by 10SecGG View Post
I'll be attending a private track rental in February, and we'll see if my numbers are close with an NHRA time clock vs Dragy numbers? I'll post those as I get them.
10SecGG - did the weather allow for your private track day as planned?
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      03-08-2022, 02:08 PM   #383
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Hey Max Well Is the leaderboard/spreadsheet that you maintain available for public viewing? I've been digging into this thread but couldn't find a link to it.

I'll be adding another X3M to my fleet this week after parting ways with my S4 so I have a bunch of track days planned for the spring!
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      03-08-2022, 04:45 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by BrockDM View Post
Hey Max Well Is the leaderboard/spreadsheet that you maintain available for public viewing? I've been digging into this thread but couldn't find a link to it.

I'll be adding another X3M to my fleet this week after parting ways with my S4 so I have a bunch of track days planned for the spring!
Excellent - looking forward to your data!

The master spreadsheet has over 40 sub-spreadsheets from Members which I've maintained since 2015, so I don't have a public link to an interactive Leaderboard if that's your question, but I do keep all of them current when we have submissions. I usually update the relevant sheets once all info from a Member's Strip day is entered (slips, DA, octane, settings, etc.) and then post the updates as jpegs for ease of download. I try to also provide each Member with their own personal log for the day which they can save (which aren't necessarily of interest to everyone). The overall Leaderboard isn't usually updated unless it changes (as it did with your run 22 Oct 2021).

I'll edit this post tomorrow to share what we currently have across the board. I've thought about editing the first post in this thread to place the most current Leaderboard updates for ease of viewing... I'll revisit that if everyone thinks it'd be helpful.
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      03-08-2022, 05:11 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
Excellent - looking forward to your data!

The master spreadsheet has over 40 sub-spreadsheets from Members which I've maintained since 2015, so I don't have a public link to an interactive Leaderboard if that's your question, but I do keep all of them current when we have submissions. I usually update the relevant sheets once all info from a Member's Strip day is entered (slips, DA, octane, settings, etc.) and then post the updates as jpegs for ease of download. I try to also provide each Member with their own personal log for the day which they can save (which aren't necessarily of interest to everyone). The overall Leaderboard isn't usually updated unless it changes (as it did with your run 22 Oct 2021).

I'll edit this post tomorrow to share what we currently have across the board. I've thought about editing the first post in this thread to place the most current Leaderboard updates for ease of viewing... I'll revisit that if everyone thinks it'd be helpful.
This would be awesome! That's ultimately what I'm most curious about but if it's too much work no problem at all.
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      03-09-2022, 11:44 AM   #386
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***F97 X3M & F98 X4M 1/4 Mile Class Leader Boards - will be edited to maintain currency as new submissions provided and referenced in the OP to aid locating***
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Last edited by Max Well; 08-04-2022 at 04:29 PM.. Reason: Added updated Spreadsheets
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      04-04-2022, 04:46 PM   #387
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I’ve finally completed the 'Comparative Analysis of Dragy vs Formal Slip Results at GNV Raceway'. I’m including a table showing amount of elevation change per distance measured depending on the slope for ease of reference, and also direct comparisons for 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile and slope & altitude. Disclaimer - I have no financial interest in any of this discussion, and I do not have a formal background in Statistics. I'm just a lay person trying to understand how accurate and precise Dragy is c/w the standard reference for 1/4 mile performance.

As has been suggested by many over the years, Dragy appears remarkably accurate and precise with both time and speed in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile:

-Dragy’s 1/8 ET is on average 0.014s +/- 0.021s slower than formal time and 0.17mph +/- 0.06mph faster in speed. The max value ranges are only 0.11s and 0.32mph, respectively.
-Dragy’s 1/4 ET is on average 0.013s +/- 0.020s slower than formal time and 0.21mph +/- 0.27mph faster in speed. The max value ranges are 0.11s and 1.23mph, respectively.

On the other hand, Dragy has difficulty with 'Precision' in altitude and slope. For this analysis I estimated a 0.00% Slope at GNV Raceway, but as I’ve been unable to find the actual value, it’s not possible to correctly identify Dragy's ‘Accuracy’ with this aspect. If one follows the Strip’s surface on GoogleEarth (which provides elevation data when hovering over a location) it would appear level. But as some papers have estimated GoogleEarth’s 'Accuracy' as only roughly 6-8 feet and that also depends on global location (which varies as some locations have better satellite coverage), one can’t use that as a standard reference vs Dragy. Multiple references can be found online for that topic by searching 'GoogleEarth, Elevation, Accuracy'.

Dragy’s wide variation in slope (even at a set location like a NHRA-sanctioned track on the same day and same lane) results in a large 'Range' of values and lower 'Precision' than it exhibits with it's ET/speed capabilities, and this is independent of it’s 'Accuracy'. In other words, if GNV’s slope was actually -0.1% instead of 0.00% as estimated for this analysis, the average difference for that value would improve, but the values for Range and Standard Deviations would remain exactly the same. From a practical standpoint, this lack of slope Precision doesn’t matter at a known level racing surface. But it does make it hard to trust at unknown locations where one is dependent on that very value for determination of whether the run is ‘valid’ or ‘invalid’.

As can be seen from the slope comparisons, Dragy has the following slope findings (note again that slope ‘Accuracy’ isn’t being discussed as GNV Raceway’s actual slope values for those three segments are N/A):

-In the 0-60mph, the Range of Slope values was 1.95% with a std dev of +/- 0.47%

-In the 1/8 mile, the Range of Slope values was 1.24% with a std dev of +/-0.26%

-In the 1/4 mile, the Range of Slope values was 0.87% with a std dev of +/-0.18%

These results shed some light on why many have reported being confused when getting ‘Invalid’ results with 0-60mph data, even though they were quite sure the short distance ‘had to have been level’. Importantly, though, it appears these slope precision issues lessen as a longer distance is measured. This would imply 1/4 mile data appears to be more resilient to the effects when c/w shorter-distance 0-60mph results.

In sum, it appears this small personal analysis would support Dragy's excellent Accuracy and Precision with 1/4 mile acceleration/performance data. It remains a great tool for serial testing and tuning, especially if used at a known level location (and same starting point for every run) where it's lower reliability slope values and the 'Valid'/'Invalid' descriptors become irrelevant.
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      04-04-2022, 06:04 PM   #388
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Great work Max Well!!!

Going back and seeing how this thread has evolved was a great re-read.
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      04-10-2022, 12:26 PM   #389
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I've raced for 46 years on NHRA, IHRA and non sanctioned tracks.Never on one that was perfectly level in elevation. The NHRA spec to be certified as an NHRA track, and must be proven with an engineer level, etc process is +1% to -1%. Within that range , NHRA will cert the track. Bristol, for example is almost +1% uphill. Rockingham is down less than 1. After slope, proceed to the accuracy of the track testing equipment and more importantly , set up location. Some have more rollout than others to give better ET's . Some move the timing beams a bit to shorten the track. One track I unloaded at, I knew something was wrong with my car. It was running 0.30 quicker and 5mph slower off the trailer. That big of a jump worried me and I started to load back up. Track starter came over ....discussion....oh, we have the end beams moved in for this race....track is shorter....so, it's all relative . Some tracks go downhill and back uphill...
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      04-10-2022, 06:26 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
I've raced for 46 years on NHRA, IHRA and non sanctioned tracks.Never on one that was perfectly level in elevation. The NHRA spec to be certified as an NHRA track, and must be proven with an engineer level, etc process is +1% to -1%. Within that range , NHRA will cert the track. Bristol, for example is almost +1% uphill. Rockingham is down less than 1. After slope, proceed to the accuracy of the track testing equipment and more importantly , set up location. Some have more rollout than others to give better ET's . Some move the timing beams a bit to shorten the track. One track I unloaded at, I knew something was wrong with my car. It was running 0.30 quicker and 5mph slower off the trailer. That big of a jump worried me and I started to load back up. Track starter came over ....discussion....oh, we have the end beams moved in for this race....track is shorter....so, it's all relative . Some tracks go downhill and back uphill...
The question isn't whether some sanctioned Strips are uphill/downhill slope. That's a given across global terrain.

But, what those tracks do have are near perfect slope accuracy and precision 'within their set grade', even if the exact value is unknown, which cannot be debated. Unless a track does a reconstruction or major track surface revision, those values are set (notwithstanding earthquake etc terrain upheavals which may alter the grade).

And ability to verify results is also key. For example, you indicated Rockingham has a negative slope. Even within the constraints of GoogleEarth's altitude accuracy and precision data, I can see that Rockingham Dragway in NC has an almost due West orientation of ~268.96 degrees, and the altitudes indicate start at 434ft, 1/8mile at 428ft, and 1/4mile at 420ft. So indeed about -1% give or take. And Bristol TN Dragway which you mention is almost 1% uphill - yes, easy to confirm by GoogleEarth which shows altitudes as 1479ft start, 1/8mile at 1482 and 1/4mile at 1491ft (and a near true NE orientation of 43.29 degrees).

All easily verifiable, not subject to change within 2" over the next 25 years unless a resurfacing project or major landshift occurs.

Completely different situation in which Submitter A shows he/she did a run using a satellite measurement system starting at an unknown location, on an ill-defined surface (although not all preps are the same at tracks, one should agree that it is more defined than an unknown surface run anywhere across the globe). Unless it is known that someone performed the run at 'Main St & E. Maple St, starting by the streetlight next to the Post Office, running 'x' direction, and that it is known to be level...'. And I still wouldn't have any idea of the surface composition. So how can I use that performance data to compare to mine?

I own Dragy, and I use Dragy, and I appreciate what it offers, and at a sanctioned Strip I am comfortable using it's value to replace an errant or missing data point, but I'm not ready to equate such data as reference.
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      04-11-2022, 09:00 AM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
The question isn't whether some sanctioned Strips are uphill/downhill slope. That's a given across global terrain.

But, what those tracks do have are near perfect slope accuracy and precision 'within their set grade', even if the exact value is unknown, which cannot be debated. Unless a track does a reconstruction or major track surface revision, those values are set (notwithstanding earthquake etc terrain upheavals which may alter the grade).

And ability to verify results is also key. For example, you indicated Rockingham has a negative slope. Even within the constraints of GoogleEarth's altitude accuracy and precision data, I can see that Rockingham Dragway in NC has an almost due West orientation of ~268.96 degrees, and the altitudes indicate start at 434ft, 1/8mile at 428ft, and 1/4mile at 420ft. So indeed about -1% give or take. And Bristol TN Dragway which you mention is almost 1% uphill - yes, easy to confirm by GoogleEarth which shows altitudes as 1479ft start, 1/8mile at 1482 and 1/4mile at 1491ft (and a near true NE orientation of 43.29 degrees).

All easily verifiable, not subject to change within 2" over the next 25 years unless a resurfacing project or major landshift occurs.

Completely different situation in which Submitter A shows he/she did a run using a satellite measurement system starting at an unknown location, on an ill-defined surface (although not all preps are the same at tracks, one should agree that it is more defined than an unknown surface run anywhere across the globe). Unless it is known that someone performed the run at 'Main St & E. Maple St, starting by the streetlight next to the Post Office, running 'x' direction, and that it is known to be level...'. And I still wouldn't have any idea of the surface composition. So how can I use that performance data to compare to mine?

I own Dragy, and I use Dragy, and I appreciate what it offers, and at a sanctioned Strip I am comfortable using it's value to replace an errant or missing data point, but I'm not ready to equate such data as reference.
I wasn’t making a statement to use Dragy as a known. Didn’t even mention it , actually. Dragy is what it is. Just like Track A vs Track B vs timing equipment set up. All variables. Now add DA into the mix…….

Would be nice to see this type of list on the X5M forum.
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      04-11-2022, 04:44 PM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
I wasn’t making a statement to use Dragy as a known. Didn’t even mention it , actually. Dragy is what it is. Just like Track A vs Track B vs timing equipment set up. All variables. Now add DA into the mix…….

Would be nice to see this type of list on the X5M forum.
As your comments followed my Dragy vs Strip comparison, apologies as it appears I misunderstood - thought you were hinting that runs at a sanctioned Strip didn't provide much more reference value than Dragy given the examples you provided.

Not sure which of the lists you'd like to see on the X5M Forum, but feel free to share them over there if you want. I would just ask that you reference/link this thread so those interested in the background discussion can read more.
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      04-11-2022, 04:58 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
As your comments followed my Dragy vs Strip comparison, apologies as it appears I misunderstood - thought you were hinting that runs at a sanctioned Strip didn't provide much more reference value than Dragy given the examples you provided.

Not sure which of the lists you'd like to see on the X5M Forum, but feel free to share them over there if you want. I would just ask that you reference/link this thread so those interested in the background discussion can read more.
I’d like to see them participate in 1/4 mile data tests, etc. Not much info on the F95/97

More data, the better.
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      04-11-2022, 11:28 PM   #394
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Quote:
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As your comments followed my Dragy vs Strip comparison, ...
I've been following this thread and your posts over the past couple of months. The consistency of your ETs and MPH in your time slips caught my attention. Really mind blowing what this 4600lb SUV can do for a stock luxury cruiser with a warranty and at its price. Played a part in my decision to order an X3MC.

Also, your Draggy vs. time slips comparison was very well done. Impressive what that little GPS timer. can do Excellent work!

Do you have any plans to mod your car? Flash tunes aren't yet available for LCI. I've been hesitant to run the piggy-back tuners, and likely won't on my car. BMW, VW, have started to crack down on tuning by making ECU/DME more and more difficult to crack.
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      04-12-2022, 09:09 AM   #395
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I've been following this thread and your posts over the past couple of months. The consistency of your ETs and MPH in your time slips caught my attention. Really mind blowing what this 4600lb SUV can do for a stock luxury cruiser with a warranty and at its price. Played a part in my decision to order an X3MC.

Also, your Draggy vs. time slips comparison was very well done. Impressive what that little GPS timer. can do Excellent work!

Do you have any plans to mod your car? Flash tunes aren't yet available for LCI. I've been hesitant to run the piggy-back tuners, and likely won't on my car. BMW, VW, have started to crack down on tuning by making ECU/DME more and more difficult to crack.
Thanks for the positive feedback. I’m staying bone stock as I share your warranty concerns, although I fully understand the lure of mods given the F97/98’s capabilities. But, if BMW produces an X3MCS (lowered, CFRP roof, 265/295 forged wheels, tuned like current St1 93 offerings, and wider stance) I’ll be giving them a deposit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
... More data, the better.
onfireX5 's discussion of slope variations at Strips prompted me to run the X3MC in my old acceleration simulation to see the effects for +1.0%, 0.0% and -1.0% grades. As previously discussed, the Sim isn’t a professional product so it’s not an ideal representation in the first few hundred feet (given the complex Physics involved and my lack of background in any of this), but as it has shown, it can track the acceleration curve’s shape fairly well beyond that range, even if at a different set point. I’m including a zoomed view of the graph with my 1 May 2021 GNV Raceway data points as reference.

Qtr Mile X3MC Simulation details - sea level, frontal area 2.69m2, mass 2096 kg, 546HP, torque 496 ft-lbs (672 Nm) which are previously documented dyno numbers by some in the Forum, and slopes of +1.0%, 0.0%, and -1.0%:
Slope +1.0%: ET 12.36s, Spd 117.90mph
Slope 0.0%: ET 12.27s, Spd 119.00mph
Slope -1.0%: ET 12.18s, Spd 120.09mph

So even slope variations within the allowed +/-1.0% range clearly make a difference in this quarter mile simulation. Just as DA, weight, octane, tires, and tuning/modifications (just to name some) must be taken into account when comparing data, so too should verified slope values as they also aid in understanding results.
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      05-19-2022, 09:32 AM   #396
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Drives: F97 X3MC
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Hey Max! Cross sharing over here to add some more data to your glorious collection haha.

2020 X3M Comp w pano roof:
- F80 Paul Stage 1 E60
- RK Tunes front mount intakes
- 21' BC Forged RZ01's with 265/295 Michelin PS4S
- 3/4 tank of gas
- Passenger and rear seats pulled out

(Passenger seat: 56lbs)
(Rear seat backs: 55lbs)
(Rear bench cushion: 14lbs)
(Jack/tools/spare: weight TBD but also removed for the run)

Car#:


Time slips:


Dragy for DA reference:
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Max Well4161.00
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