08-22-2019, 07:31 AM | #89 | |
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08-22-2019, 08:03 AM | #90 |
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How many would here seriously consider a new E46 or E39 if it would be available today?
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08-22-2019, 08:35 AM | #91 |
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Sad to see you go, i really think they are very close.
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08-22-2019, 08:35 AM | #92 | |
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I take E46 M3 CSL any day
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08-22-2019, 08:46 AM | #93 |
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Absolute volume isn't that interesting of a metric unless that's the sole factor one wants to optimize. Perhaps BMW needs to sell millions of vehicles these days to have a chance of meeting profit targets but that's what some are questioning as the strategy. Porsche delivered 200+k cars last year globally, which is a record for them, and are a picture of automotive health at the moment.
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08-22-2019, 09:19 AM | #94 |
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post financial crisis, all manufacture need scale, there is a reason Fiat bought Chrysler then... Porsche is low volume, but it's low volume within VW/Audi, other than 911 everything else is pretty "shared" especially with Sedan/SUV..
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08-22-2019, 09:20 AM | #95 | |
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-up-to-17-250
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08-22-2019, 09:26 AM | #96 |
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I've often thought about this idea. But what would they be like, built today, with current safety, emission and CO2 requirements, added technology, etc.? Somehow I think they would disappoint, as they would have to be somewhere between the original and the current models.
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08-22-2019, 09:34 AM | #97 |
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Clearly BMW cars are too cheap.
So are we saying BMW should cut production, make a few dynamic tweaks and bump the price? Say by 25 - 50%, and enthusiasts would see that as forward thinking? We get so much more BMW for our money these days, I'm not for going back to "the good old days". |
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08-22-2019, 09:37 AM | #98 |
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Is there evidence that R&D flows in the VW/Audi -> Porsche direction? I know everyone likes to say this, but is there anything to that besides speculation? If anything, I'd imagine Porsche innovation/research trickles down to VW/Audi, not the other direction.
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08-22-2019, 09:40 AM | #99 | |
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08-22-2019, 09:57 AM | #100 | |
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Guess the only part will be the old is steering feel and they can probably put more of the M5 stuff into lower range to make it corner better |
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08-22-2019, 09:58 AM | #101 |
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Regarding if it's VW/Audi to Porsche or Porsche to VW/Audi, it's shared, which is the point (on cost)
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08-22-2019, 09:59 AM | #102 |
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08-22-2019, 10:08 AM | #103 | |
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Porsche is more expensive than BMW. We can argue about features, tech, build quality and so on differences but the bottom line is customers are willing to pay for it. Reputation is king in this (and other) businesses. If the customer believes they're getting a premium product, they'll pay for it again and again even if objectively it's not as premium as one perceives. But of course they need to deliver as well, and they do. It's a very slim margin for error. If you tarnish it, it'll take a long time to rebuild, if ever. |
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08-22-2019, 10:15 AM | #104 | |
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A CF monocoque sport sedan is a far more interesting proposition to me than an M1 replacement. Lots of cars in the supercar sea, but nothing like a CF monocoque sport sedan.
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08-22-2019, 10:48 AM | #105 | |
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I'm sure some Porsche tech flying to Audi/VW (and vice versa), but for example how does Porsche allocate Porsche Cayenne's R&D, it's entire platform/chassis (PL71/72) is on the same platform that runs VW Touareg/Audi Q7/Porsche Cayenne. If Porsche had to build SUV on its own, not sure how porsche "stand alone" financial will look. Also given how hard VW is going for electric (vs. BMW), I'm sure some of the stuff Taycan used/developing had been in the mind set of "cost sharing" |
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08-22-2019, 12:23 PM | #106 |
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All the guys driving Accords and Camrys would love to buy a BMW 3 or 4 series if they could afford it - so if BMW wants to sell to those guys, cut the price. Easy peasy. Pay a little more and get a lot more car. And attract Merc customers at the same time for a double-edged sword.
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08-22-2019, 12:42 PM | #107 |
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I'll take a E46 sports package with hydraulic steering, xenon's, non runflats, spare tire, heated seats, inline 6, with 280-300HP, and a rearview camera. I don't need all the technology. Keep it simple, and fun to drive.
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08-22-2019, 12:55 PM | #108 | |
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The closest modern example we can look at is Tesla. They started out making electric roadsters trying to chart the top of the driving enthusiasts market. They had to move to the luxury sedan to survive and now are moving to the "cheap" car with the Model 3 to hopefully survive while staying independent... You need volume... Pure and simple. |
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08-22-2019, 01:30 PM | #109 |
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I'm not sure it has to be all or nothing in terms of volume - you can have a volume model(s) yet differentiate on others. Macan accounts for nearly 50% of Porsche's volume - that's their commodity car.
For BMW, what's their volume car today? I think it's nearly all of them. I just don't know how you can produce a great product when you're spread thin across so many of them (financially and human capital wise). It's like being the GE of cars - decent stuff all around but forgettable in every one. Can survive like that but won't get fanfare in the forums . |
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