[rcracin]

Nothing can touch Lewis’ mental strength. The proof is in the way he had Rosberg begging in the last race of 2016 to let him by when in fact Lewis was the one intentionally slowing him down. To bring a driver of Rosberg’s caliber to such a low mental point shows how ruthless Lewis is.

[Caffeine Powered]

I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered

I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.

I think we all do, regardless of who we support.

I really really hope the Honda engine produce enough power next year to make RB a serious contender. And I hope with the arrival of Leclerc that Ferrari will somehow be at the front again. Then we can have a nice 3 way fight for the championship.

[cliverman]

LH is a true champion. He deserves all the credit for being a freak of nature driver. His life story is amazing. I truly believe that RB and Ferrari will push Mercedes next year - hell I hope so.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered

I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.

.

[Caffeine Powered]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

.

Your quote means little unless you're saying a Mercedes is more reliable than the Red Bull.

[Poiseuille]

well, tbh, I have no idea why you think my "quote means little". In fact, I was agreeing with you. Specifically with your comment: "I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did".
My post just pointed out that Daniel has had eight retirements whereas Mercedes has five consecutive constructor championships.
I can tell you that I'd like NOTHING better than to see Daniel in a Benz (preferably) or a Ferrari.
Regarding whether or not Benz is more reliable, I would have thought that obvious.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered

Your quote means little unless you're saying a Mercedes is more reliable than the Red Bull.

so I really wish Daniel could get an even break, but just to be clear where I stand:

IT'S NOT THE CAR!
.

[madmax240]

Lewis is as good as the hype around him. The argument that anyone could win in the same car is a furphy. The trick is that Lewis can motivate the team to build him the car and keep up the work to maintain reliability.

Lewis can get the best of of the people around him. This was one of Michael Schumacher's strengths too. I don't see this in the other drivers.

If the fan bois of the other drivers want to talk the talk, what they should really be saying in throwing down the gauntlet is, "Driver xyz could have won the WDC in the Ferrari.".

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by madmax240

Lewis is as good as the hype around him. The argument that anyone could win in the same car is a furphy. The trick is that Lewis can motivate the team to build him the car and keep up the work to maintain reliability.

Lewis can get the best of of the people around him. This was one of Michael Schumacher's strengths too. I don't see this in the other drivers.

If the fan bois of the other drivers want to talk the talk, what they should really be saying in throwing down the gauntlet is, "Driver xyz could have won the WDC in the Ferrari.".

This.

Toto once remarked how Lewis is involved in every aspect of the team, and always motivate the team to push harder in order to win.

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by madmax240

Lewis is as good as the hype around him. The argument that anyone could win in the same car is a furphy. The trick is that Lewis can motivate the team to build him the car and keep up the work to maintain reliability.

Lewis can get the best of of the people around him. This was one of Michael Schumacher's strengths too. I don't see this in the other drivers.

If the fan bois of the other drivers want to talk the talk, what they should really be saying in throwing down the gauntlet is, "Driver xyz could have won the WDC in the Ferrari.".

But you exclude Vettel from that list because why? Vettel took RB to 4 consecutive WCs, and left his teammate in the dust. Yet most HAM fans regard VET as shit. Why is that?

[madmax240]

Originally Posted by five_timer

But you exclude Vettel from that list because why? Vettel took RB to 4 consecutive WCs, and left his teammate in the dust. Yet most HAM fans regard VET as shit. Why is that?

I don't know that most HAM fans think Vettel is shit, but he's not as good as Hamilton.
At RedBull, if you have Marko and Horner backing you (as Vet and Ves do), you don't have to be the one motivating your team around you.
Vet clearly had #1 status, but as you can see from 2016 when Rosberg beat Ham, both Merc drivers had equal status. and Ham beat Rosberg fair and square (3 out of 4). And you can see from Bottas' performance over the last two years, Rosberg is WDC material - fast.


Even though I think Webber was good, we'll never know because Marko and Horner favoured Vet. I also think Raikkonen is good, but he's not the type to rally the team around him. so we'll never really know again. and when Vet won his WDCs with RB, he clearly had the faster car. Merc didn't this year.


It's one thing to say any driver could win the WDC in the Merc, but they ignore the fact that drivers like HAM motivated the team to build the car and push it to the limits.

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by madmax240

I don't know that most HAM fans think Vettel is shit, but he's not as good as Hamilton.
At RedBull, if you have Marko and Horner backing you (as Vet and Ves do), you don't have to be the one motivating your team around you.
Vet clearly had #1 status, but as you can see from 2016 when Rosberg beat Ham, both Merc drivers had equal status. and Ham beat Rosberg fair and square (3 out of 4). And you can see from Bottas' performance over the last two years, Rosberg is WDC material - fast.


Even though I think Webber was good, we'll never know because Marko and Horner favoured Vet. I also think Raikkonen is good, but he's not the type to rally the team around him. so we'll never really know again. and when Vet won his WDCs with RB, he clearly had the faster car. Merc didn't this year.


It's one thing to say any driver could win the WDC in the Merc, but they ignore the fact that drivers like HAM motivated the team to build the car and push it to the limits.

Ha, that's funny, because one can use the same "situational results" to come to a completely different conclusion.

For example, the fact that ROS beat HAM means 2 things:
1 - the Merc is clearly superior, so the competition is only between the 2 drivers
2 - HAM was not the best driver that year, and was nearly beaten by ROS a number of times.

VET, on the other hand, consistently left his teammate in the dust. He's also smoked his teammates at Ferrari and TR. Alonso equaled HAM at McLaren.

There's no evidence that the cars were equal in one situation, but unequal in another, but it's a central premise of your argument. You also ignore the fact that Red Bull was not a WC team before Vettel came along. You have a theory about that, but I'll choose to disagree.

The way I see it, while HAM is a very talented driver, he's hands-down the luckiest driver ever. He started with one team at their peak, and jumped to another team just as the tides turned to them. He's never been with a weak team. We'll never know how he'd have fared in a not-as-fast Ferrari.

[Japper69]

Originally Posted by five_timer

Ha, that's funny, because one can use the same "situational results" to come to a completely different conclusion.

For example, the fact that ROS beat HAM means 2 things:
1 - the Merc is clearly superior, so the competition is only between the 2 drivers
2 - HAM was not the best driver that year, and was nearly beaten by ROS a number of times.

VET, on the other hand, consistently left his teammate in the dust. He's also smoked his teammates at Ferrari and TR. Alonso equaled HAM at McLaren.

There's no evidence that the cars were equal in one situation, but unequal in another, but it's a central premise of your argument. You also ignore the fact that Red Bull was not a WC team before Vettel came along. You have a theory about that, but I'll choose to disagree.

The way I see it, while HAM is a very talented driver, he's hands-down the luckiest driver ever. He started with one team at their peak, and jumped to another team just as the tides turned to them. He's never been with a weak team. We'll never know how he'd have fared in a not-as-fast Ferrari.

IIRC Hamilton in his rookie year beat Alonso. Vetted got beat badly in his last year at RB by Ricardo.

You can call it luck that Hamilton moved to Mercedes, but like anyone in their career, making the right moves at the right time is a talent in it’s own right, or is every successful person merely lucky !!

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by Japper69

IIRC Hamilton in his rookie year beat Alonso. Vetted got beat badly in his last year at RB by Ricardo.

You can call it luck that Hamilton moved to Mercedes, but like anyone in their career, making the right moves at the right time is a talent in it’s own right, or is every successful person merely lucky !!

HAM and ALO tied at 109. Yes, RIC beat VET in his final year at RBR. VET was plagued with mechanical problems that RIC didn't have. That may not matter to you. And I agree that HAM's luck is at least partly due to his intelligence in scoping out the situation, and contributing to the team. But the fact is, he's never been in an inferior car, like Shumacher's Benneton, or Alonso's Ferrari, or Vettel's Ferrari. Those drivers all performed way beyond the capabilities of the hardware.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by five_timer

HAM and ALO tied at 109. Yes, RIC beat VET in his final year at RBR. VET was plagued with mechanical problems that RIC didn't have. That may not matter to you. And I agree that HAM's luck is at least partly due to his intelligence in scoping out the situation, and contributing to the team. But the fact is, he's never been in an inferior car, like Shumacher's Benneton, or Alonso's Ferrari, or Vettel's Ferrari. Those drivers all performed way beyond the capabilities of the hardware.

His 2008 championship was not done in the best car, McLaren won 6 out of 18 races. Ferrari had the most wins that year.

Originally Posted by Japper69

You can call it luck that Hamilton moved to Mercedes, but like anyone in their career, making the right moves at the right time is a talent in it’s own right, or is every successful person merely lucky !!

Many criticized his move to Mercedes. They thought he was making the biggest mistake of his career.

[hellrotm]

Look how bad Lewis has dominated Bottas this season. Embarrassing Bottas could finish 5th in drivers points after Abu Dhabi.

1- Lewis Hamilton 383
2 - Sebastian Vettel 302
3 - Kimi Räikkönen 251
4 - Valtteri Bottas 237
5 - Max Verstappen 234

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by five_timer

2 - HAM was not the best driver that year, and was nearly beaten by ROS a number of times.

Frankly I'm still sore about 2016. Rosberg only won because he had one less retirement than Hamilton. HAM was comfortably leading in Malaysia before his engine failed 16 laps from the end.

Even taking into account the extra retirement, he won more races than Rosberg. If the F1 championship was scored using the previous 3 scoring models (1981-1990, 1991-2002 and 2003-2009), Hamilton would have won over Rosberg in all three models.

I've only just gotten over 2007 because sliding off the pit lane entrance into a gravel trap in China was driver error (even though McLaren left him out too long). He should have secured the Championship in that race!

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by jkoral

Frankly I'm still sore about 2016. Rosberg only won because he had one less retirement than Hamilton. HAM was comfortably leading in Malaysia before his engine failed 16 laps from the end.

Yup, Lewis would have 6 world titles if he didn't have that engine failure at the end of the Malaysia race while leading.

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle

Yup, Lewis would have 6 world titles if he didn't have that engine failure at the end of the Malaysia race while leading.

I understand you guys love Lewis (I like him too, it's just too much already), but are you really going to whine about missing a 6th WDC? How about the 3 WDCs Alonso lost by 4 points or less (one by a point)? How about Massa missing out by a point? Eddie Irvine by 2 points. Kimi (with McLaren) by 2 points. IMO, Alonso's career was just tossed into the dumpster.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by five_timer

How about the 3 WDCs Alonso lost by 4 points or less (one by a point)? How about Massa missing out by a point? Eddie Irvine by 2 points. Kimi (with McLaren) by 2 points.

Yup, I think professional athletes have to quickly move on from these "what ifs" or they would lose their mind -- but us fans can keep the "what ifs" alive forever!

[Fender150]

It will be Merc Vs ferrari next year. I predict
Red bull falling behind renault and battling haas