BMW X3 Forum
BMW X3 Forum
Welcome to the ultimate BMW X3 community.
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Today's Posts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-02-2018, 04:59 AM   #45
rcracin
Major
1251
Rep
1,289
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (4)

Nothing can touch Lewis’ mental strength. The proof is in the way he had Rosberg begging in the last race of 2016 to let him by when in fact Lewis was the one intentionally slowing him down. To bring a driver of Rosberg’s caliber to such a low mental point shows how ruthless Lewis is.
Appreciate 2
Poiseuille5425.50
CP911998.00
      11-05-2018, 10:05 PM   #46
Caffeine Powered
Keep it moving
Caffeine Powered's Avatar
United_States
49
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: '07 328xi
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Madison, Wisco

iTrader: (0)

I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.
__________________
In reality I am a 12 year old with no concept of consequences.
Appreciate 2
      11-06-2018, 03:30 AM   #47
mk1-fan
Lieutenant
mk1-fan's Avatar
South Africa
584
Rep
573
Posts

Drives: 2018 G30 540i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Gauteng, South Africa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered View Post
I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.
I think we all do, regardless of who we support.

I really really hope the Honda engine produce enough power next year to make RB a serious contender. And I hope with the arrival of Leclerc that Ferrari will somehow be at the front again. Then we can have a nice 3 way fight for the championship.
Appreciate 2
      11-11-2018, 06:22 PM   #48
cliverman
Captain
cliverman's Avatar
961
Rep
940
Posts

Drives: 2022 X3M
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Durham,NC

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [10.00]
LH is a true champion. He deserves all the credit for being a freak of nature driver. His life story is amazing. I truly believe that RB and Ferrari will push Mercedes next year - hell I hope so.
__________________
2022 X3M
2017 Cayman (Ret)
2019 X3 M40i (Ret.)
2015 F82 ///M4 (Ret.)
2011 E92 ///M3 (Ret.)
Appreciate 3
      11-11-2018, 06:50 PM   #49
Poiseuille
Brigadier General
Poiseuille's Avatar
United_States
5426
Rep
3,744
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 DCT Tanzanite/Amaro
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Princeton

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
  [0.00]
  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered View Post
I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.
.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 3
      11-11-2018, 08:31 PM   #50
Caffeine Powered
Keep it moving
Caffeine Powered's Avatar
United_States
49
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: '07 328xi
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Madison, Wisco

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered View Post
I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.
.
Your quote means little unless you're saying a Mercedes is more reliable than the Red Bull.
Attached Images
 
__________________
In reality I am a 12 year old with no concept of consequences.
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2018, 04:08 AM   #51
Poiseuille
Brigadier General
Poiseuille's Avatar
United_States
5426
Rep
3,744
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 DCT Tanzanite/Amaro
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Princeton

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
  [0.00]
  [10.00]
well, tbh, I have no idea why you think my "quote means little". In fact, I was agreeing with you. Specifically with your comment: "I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did".
My post just pointed out that Daniel has had eight retirements whereas Mercedes has five consecutive constructor championships.
I can tell you that I'd like NOTHING better than to see Daniel in a Benz (preferably) or a Ferrari.
Regarding whether or not Benz is more reliable, I would have thought that obvious.
Appreciate 1
MKSixer34121.50
      11-12-2018, 04:15 AM   #52
Poiseuille
Brigadier General
Poiseuille's Avatar
United_States
5426
Rep
3,744
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 DCT Tanzanite/Amaro
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Princeton

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
  [0.00]
  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered View Post
I was cheering for him against Nico. But there's something about the way he won this year that put me off. I wanted Danny to have reliable ride to contest as Max did, but we know how that worked out. I would have settled for Ferrari being competitive but they're cursed this year.

Lewis is a good champion, but I want to see competition.
.
Your quote means little unless you're saying a Mercedes is more reliable than the Red Bull.
so I really wish Daniel could get an even break, but just to be clear where I stand:

IT'S NOT THE CAR!
.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
MKSixer34121.50
      11-13-2018, 01:12 AM   #53
madmax240
Private First Class
92
Rep
137
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Sep 2007

iTrader: (0)

Lewis is as good as the hype around him. The argument that anyone could win in the same car is a furphy. The trick is that Lewis can motivate the team to build him the car and keep up the work to maintain reliability.

Lewis can get the best of of the people around him. This was one of Michael Schumacher's strengths too. I don't see this in the other drivers.

If the fan bois of the other drivers want to talk the talk, what they should really be saying in throwing down the gauntlet is, "Driver xyz could have won the WDC in the Ferrari.".
Appreciate 3
Poiseuille5425.50
MKSixer34121.50
cliverman961.00
      11-13-2018, 03:41 AM   #54
mk1-fan
Lieutenant
mk1-fan's Avatar
South Africa
584
Rep
573
Posts

Drives: 2018 G30 540i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Gauteng, South Africa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax240 View Post
Lewis is as good as the hype around him. The argument that anyone could win in the same car is a furphy. The trick is that Lewis can motivate the team to build him the car and keep up the work to maintain reliability.

Lewis can get the best of of the people around him. This was one of Michael Schumacher's strengths too. I don't see this in the other drivers.

If the fan bois of the other drivers want to talk the talk, what they should really be saying in throwing down the gauntlet is, "Driver xyz could have won the WDC in the Ferrari.".
This.

Toto once remarked how Lewis is involved in every aspect of the team, and always motivate the team to push harder in order to win.
Appreciate 3
Poiseuille5425.50
MKSixer34121.50
cliverman961.00
      11-13-2018, 07:08 AM   #55
six_timer
last of the greats
six_timer's Avatar
109
Rep
428
Posts

Drives: 328i convertible
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ME

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax240 View Post
Lewis is as good as the hype around him. The argument that anyone could win in the same car is a furphy. The trick is that Lewis can motivate the team to build him the car and keep up the work to maintain reliability.

Lewis can get the best of of the people around him. This was one of Michael Schumacher's strengths too. I don't see this in the other drivers.

If the fan bois of the other drivers want to talk the talk, what they should really be saying in throwing down the gauntlet is, "Driver xyz could have won the WDC in the Ferrari.".
But you exclude Vettel from that list because why? Vettel took RB to 4 consecutive WCs, and left his teammate in the dust. Yet most HAM fans regard VET as shit. Why is that?
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2018, 07:29 AM   #56
madmax240
Private First Class
92
Rep
137
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Sep 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
But you exclude Vettel from that list because why? Vettel took RB to 4 consecutive WCs, and left his teammate in the dust. Yet most HAM fans regard VET as shit. Why is that?

I don't know that most HAM fans think Vettel is shit, but he's not as good as Hamilton.
At RedBull, if you have Marko and Horner backing you (as Vet and Ves do), you don't have to be the one motivating your team around you.
Vet clearly had #1 status, but as you can see from 2016 when Rosberg beat Ham, both Merc drivers had equal status. and Ham beat Rosberg fair and square (3 out of 4). And you can see from Bottas' performance over the last two years, Rosberg is WDC material - fast.


Even though I think Webber was good, we'll never know because Marko and Horner favoured Vet. I also think Raikkonen is good, but he's not the type to rally the team around him. so we'll never really know again. and when Vet won his WDCs with RB, he clearly had the faster car. Merc didn't this year.


It's one thing to say any driver could win the WDC in the Merc, but they ignore the fact that drivers like HAM motivated the team to build the car and push it to the limits.
Appreciate 1
Poiseuille5425.50
      11-13-2018, 11:31 AM   #57
six_timer
last of the greats
six_timer's Avatar
109
Rep
428
Posts

Drives: 328i convertible
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ME

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax240 View Post
I don't know that most HAM fans think Vettel is shit, but he's not as good as Hamilton.
At RedBull, if you have Marko and Horner backing you (as Vet and Ves do), you don't have to be the one motivating your team around you.
Vet clearly had #1 status, but as you can see from 2016 when Rosberg beat Ham, both Merc drivers had equal status. and Ham beat Rosberg fair and square (3 out of 4). And you can see from Bottas' performance over the last two years, Rosberg is WDC material - fast.


Even though I think Webber was good, we'll never know because Marko and Horner favoured Vet. I also think Raikkonen is good, but he's not the type to rally the team around him. so we'll never really know again. and when Vet won his WDCs with RB, he clearly had the faster car. Merc didn't this year.


It's one thing to say any driver could win the WDC in the Merc, but they ignore the fact that drivers like HAM motivated the team to build the car and push it to the limits.
Ha, that's funny, because one can use the same "situational results" to come to a completely different conclusion.

For example, the fact that ROS beat HAM means 2 things:
1 - the Merc is clearly superior, so the competition is only between the 2 drivers
2 - HAM was not the best driver that year, and was nearly beaten by ROS a number of times.

VET, on the other hand, consistently left his teammate in the dust. He's also smoked his teammates at Ferrari and TR. Alonso equaled HAM at McLaren.

There's no evidence that the cars were equal in one situation, but unequal in another, but it's a central premise of your argument. You also ignore the fact that Red Bull was not a WC team before Vettel came along. You have a theory about that, but I'll choose to disagree.

The way I see it, while HAM is a very talented driver, he's hands-down the luckiest driver ever. He started with one team at their peak, and jumped to another team just as the tides turned to them. He's never been with a weak team. We'll never know how he'd have fared in a not-as-fast Ferrari.
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2018, 11:46 AM   #58
Japper69
Second Lieutenant
United Kingdom
136
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 X-Drive - Skyscraper Gr
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Uk

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
Ha, that's funny, because one can use the same "situational results" to come to a completely different conclusion.

For example, the fact that ROS beat HAM means 2 things:
1 - the Merc is clearly superior, so the competition is only between the 2 drivers
2 - HAM was not the best driver that year, and was nearly beaten by ROS a number of times.

VET, on the other hand, consistently left his teammate in the dust. He's also smoked his teammates at Ferrari and TR. Alonso equaled HAM at McLaren.

There's no evidence that the cars were equal in one situation, but unequal in another, but it's a central premise of your argument. You also ignore the fact that Red Bull was not a WC team before Vettel came along. You have a theory about that, but I'll choose to disagree.

The way I see it, while HAM is a very talented driver, he's hands-down the luckiest driver ever. He started with one team at their peak, and jumped to another team just as the tides turned to them. He's never been with a weak team. We'll never know how he'd have fared in a not-as-fast Ferrari.
IIRC Hamilton in his rookie year beat Alonso. Vetted got beat badly in his last year at RB by Ricardo.

You can call it luck that Hamilton moved to Mercedes, but like anyone in their career, making the right moves at the right time is a talent in it’s own right, or is every successful person merely lucky !!
Appreciate 2
Poiseuille5425.50
MKSixer34121.50
      11-13-2018, 04:30 PM   #59
six_timer
last of the greats
six_timer's Avatar
109
Rep
428
Posts

Drives: 328i convertible
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ME

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japper69 View Post
IIRC Hamilton in his rookie year beat Alonso. Vetted got beat badly in his last year at RB by Ricardo.

You can call it luck that Hamilton moved to Mercedes, but like anyone in their career, making the right moves at the right time is a talent in it’s own right, or is every successful person merely lucky !!
HAM and ALO tied at 109. Yes, RIC beat VET in his final year at RBR. VET was plagued with mechanical problems that RIC didn't have. That may not matter to you. And I agree that HAM's luck is at least partly due to his intelligence in scoping out the situation, and contributing to the team. But the fact is, he's never been in an inferior car, like Shumacher's Benneton, or Alonso's Ferrari, or Vettel's Ferrari. Those drivers all performed way beyond the capabilities of the hardware.
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2018, 08:31 PM   #60
hellrotm
Banned
4141
Rep
6,924
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
HAM and ALO tied at 109. Yes, RIC beat VET in his final year at RBR. VET was plagued with mechanical problems that RIC didn't have. That may not matter to you. And I agree that HAM's luck is at least partly due to his intelligence in scoping out the situation, and contributing to the team. But the fact is, he's never been in an inferior car, like Shumacher's Benneton, or Alonso's Ferrari, or Vettel's Ferrari. Those drivers all performed way beyond the capabilities of the hardware.
His 2008 championship was not done in the best car, McLaren won 6 out of 18 races. Ferrari had the most wins that year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japper69 View Post
You can call it luck that Hamilton moved to Mercedes, but like anyone in their career, making the right moves at the right time is a talent in it’s own right, or is every successful person merely lucky !!
Many criticized his move to Mercedes. They thought he was making the biggest mistake of his career.

Last edited by hellrotm; 11-13-2018 at 08:36 PM..
Appreciate 1
jkoral1115.50
      11-13-2018, 08:36 PM   #61
hellrotm
Banned
4141
Rep
6,924
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Look how bad Lewis has dominated Bottas this season. Embarrassing Bottas could finish 5th in drivers points after Abu Dhabi.

1- Lewis Hamilton 383
2 - Sebastian Vettel 302
3 - Kimi Räikkönen 251
4 - Valtteri Bottas 237
5 - Max Verstappen 234
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2018, 09:18 PM   #62
jkoral
Colonel
United_States
1116
Rep
2,034
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 LBB 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MA

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
2 - HAM was not the best driver that year, and was nearly beaten by ROS a number of times.
Frankly I'm still sore about 2016. Rosberg only won because he had one less retirement than Hamilton. HAM was comfortably leading in Malaysia before his engine failed 16 laps from the end.

Even taking into account the extra retirement, he won more races than Rosberg. If the F1 championship was scored using the previous 3 scoring models (1981-1990, 1991-2002 and 2003-2009), Hamilton would have won over Rosberg in all three models.

I've only just gotten over 2007 because sliding off the pit lane entrance into a gravel trap in China was driver error (even though McLaren left him out too long). He should have secured the Championship in that race!
Appreciate 1
MKSixer34121.50
      11-14-2018, 12:07 AM   #63
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,785
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoral View Post
Frankly I'm still sore about 2016. Rosberg only won because he had one less retirement than Hamilton. HAM was comfortably leading in Malaysia before his engine failed 16 laps from the end.
Yup, Lewis would have 6 world titles if he didn't have that engine failure at the end of the Malaysia race while leading.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2018, 04:04 PM   #64
six_timer
last of the greats
six_timer's Avatar
109
Rep
428
Posts

Drives: 328i convertible
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ME

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
Yup, Lewis would have 6 world titles if he didn't have that engine failure at the end of the Malaysia race while leading.
I understand you guys love Lewis (I like him too, it's just too much already), but are you really going to whine about missing a 6th WDC? How about the 3 WDCs Alonso lost by 4 points or less (one by a point)? How about Massa missing out by a point? Eddie Irvine by 2 points. Kimi (with McLaren) by 2 points. IMO, Alonso's career was just tossed into the dumpster.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2018, 06:34 PM   #65
jkoral
Colonel
United_States
1116
Rep
2,034
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 LBB 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MA

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
How about the 3 WDCs Alonso lost by 4 points or less (one by a point)? How about Massa missing out by a point? Eddie Irvine by 2 points. Kimi (with McLaren) by 2 points.

Yup, I think professional athletes have to quickly move on from these "what ifs" or they would lose their mind -- but us fans can keep the "what ifs" alive forever!
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2018, 06:46 PM   #66
Fender150
Lieutenant
United_States
355
Rep
464
Posts

Drives: F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

It will be Merc Vs ferrari next year. I predict
Red bull falling behind renault and battling haas
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST