07-30-2016, 06:02 PM | #1 |
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2013 X3 N20 Engine Replaced - P0171 Error Code - HELP!
Hello,
I have a 2013 X3 with N20 engine. I was a victim of the dreaded timing chain tensioner breaking and ruining the engine. The car has 83000 miles, so BMW said piss off on helping with replacement. Dealer cost to replace was $19500. I decided to purchase a used engine and found one with only 5k miles on it. The engine is installed and is running wonderfully. EXCEPT, it is throwing a P0171 error code. I am very familiar with the OBD2 codes and with coding BMWs. The cause of the error is usually a vacuum leak. I have smoke tested the engine and did find 2 leaks that have since been fixed. NO LEAKS on the last smoke test. I have been looking at the STFT and LTFT during idle, acceleration and at speed. They are below Idle STFT - varies between -10 and +5 LTFT - about 22 Acceleration STFT - +7 - +15 LTFT - 24 or more At Speed (around 35mph) STFT - 0 LTFT - 25-29 Assuming there are no vacuum leaks, what else should I be looking for? Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
08-01-2016, 09:20 PM | #2 |
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P0171 Diagnosis
Ok, so since it looks like no one knows how to diagnose this, here is what I learned:
1. The p0171 is a fuel mixture too lean. This means that the various sensors in the car intake and exhaust systems is reading a fuel mixture that is less than the ideal 14.7:1 ratio. 2. The fuel mixture is automatically adjusted by the ECU. 3. There are 2 types of adjustments (called trims), the short term and long term. The STFT is an immediate adjustment to get the mixture back to 14.7:1. The LTFT samples the STFT and makes a long term change to the trim to maintain the 14.7:1 ratio. 4. If the LTFT is greater than 20%, a Bmw will throw a MIL. Causes of P0171 1. The p0171 code is usually caused by 2 things, Vacuum Leak and Fuel Starvation Diagnosis By using the LTFT, STFT and the Engine Speed, you get an idea of which cause you should look at. You will need an OBD tool that will allow you to read data in real time. Hook up the tool and set it up to display STFT, LTFT and Engine Speed Record the LTFT at idle, this will be your baseline Next, rev the engine and record whether the LTFT goes up or down Hold the engine speed at about 1500 rpm and record the LTFT Findings If your LTFT increases as the rpms increase, you have a fuel starvation issue If your LTFT decreases as the rpms increase, you have a vacuum leak In my case, I had an increase, then a decrease. In this case, i had both vacuum and fuel issues. I fixed the vacuum issues first (they are cheaper and easier). Now, I am working the fuel starvation. Fuel filter is first on the list. |
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08-02-2016, 12:17 AM | #3 |
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Sorry to hear that you had to pay yourself for the new engine . I think BMW should have helped you somehow, after all the car is only 3 years old.
This seems to be a very common problem with BMW engines, especially the Diesel engines. You can look at any forum here in Europe, and people complain about it. (but in EU BMW sells few petrol engines, thats maybe why the problems occur with the diesels here).
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08-02-2016, 03:48 PM | #4 | |
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08-03-2016, 01:29 PM | #5 |
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gresh, if you do not mind a few more questions:
1. did your N20 that failed, have plastic oil filter housing? 2. Was sludge found in the engine that cause the failure? 3. Did you hear/experience any symptoms of failure coming? Thanks |
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08-04-2016, 06:41 PM | #7 |
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My 2013 X3 N20 engine with 38,00 miles had several issues including sludge in the engine and multiple Vanos failures.
1st problem: turbo oil leak causing excess smoke upon startup. Oil line replaced under warranty. 2nd problem: failure of replacement oil line which was a fix for problem #1 causing an oil leak and engine fire. Fire damage replaced under warranty. 3rd problem: drivetrain malfunction with multiple Vanos failures caused by sludge in engine. Engine replaced under warranty. I loved my 2007 X3 with 167,000 miles. The 2013 X3 handles much better but I am not sure it will last 100,000 miles. Best of luck George |
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08-04-2016, 09:25 PM | #8 | |
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The BMW diagnosis said sludge was found. I think that's crap. They did all of the services, so if there was sludge, that's on them. The car had a very intermittent drivetrain malfunction, which in retrospect, could have been the timing chain getting far enough out of tension that it caused the cam sensors to trigger. It started at about 50k miles, but really only lasted a few seconds and it probably only happened a few times. Hope that helps |
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08-04-2016, 09:31 PM | #9 | |
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The vanos failures are pretty common to a few BMW engines, not just the n20. Good oil with frequent changes along with getting the turbo oil line recall done should postpone the vanos errors. It did for me. |
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08-04-2016, 09:35 PM | #10 |
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08-04-2016, 11:32 PM | #11 |
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I did most of the issues are N20 pre YOM 2014. I don't see anything post 2014 manufactured engines or did I miss something?
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08-05-2016, 09:45 AM | #12 |
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So in 2014, BMW did replace the plastic POS timing chain track and tensioner with a different one, but they didn't go out and refit already built engines. I don't know when the old ones actually ended.
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08-05-2016, 10:26 AM | #13 | |
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Sounds like you had random "drivetrain malfunction" since 50K and did not check what it is was until at 80+K the engine completely failed? Hmmm |
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08-05-2016, 04:05 PM | #14 | |
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...YAH4/htmlview# http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...in+malfunction http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=912547 Last edited by Bimar; 08-05-2016 at 04:12 PM.. |
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08-06-2016, 03:50 PM | #15 | |
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As far as the drivetrain malfunction, every time I took it in for oil change or service, I told them, but since it didnt throw any OBD errors and it only happened a few times, they couldnt reproduce that one either. |
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08-08-2016, 09:44 AM | #16 | |
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When oil leaks its level drops down, and if overlooked/ignored/notdetected leads to oil loss and as the result to oil starvation (sludge form too because overstress and overheating). |
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08-09-2016, 07:39 PM | #17 | |
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Thanks for the insight though. I guess that if the oil indicator in the car was off, that would do it. I had the oil changed at 7500 miles for as long as I had it. You would have thought that BMW would have noticed, but maybe not. Thanks again |
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08-10-2016, 09:55 AM | #18 |
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gresh, sorry I can not help with P0171 MIL, but hopefully still helping keeping the thread afloat so someone may reply something useful.
Meanwhile a question: how much did new engine cost? How much and long it took to swap it? Thanks |
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08-11-2016, 07:41 AM | #19 |
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I just had my 2013 engine replaced by the dealer with a new 2013 spec engine. It took several days to order the parts including the block and put it together. I was told the cost was $23,000: I assume that includes labor.
I had an engine warning light come on within a 100 miles and took it back to the dealer. The dealer replaced the new fuel injectors with the correct part number. George |
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08-11-2016, 08:32 PM | #20 |
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Don't forget that all cars in the US have an 8 year 80,000 mile EPA emissions warranty. I realize that you have 83,000 miles, but if you reported any symptoms to BMW before 80,000 they might cover this. I wonder if the timing chain or the turbo oil line problems can fall under this emissions warranty (turbo is specifically called out in the EPA warranty). Note this is a warranty required by EPA - not a BMW warranty. And if BMW pushes back you can contact the EPA.
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08-13-2016, 01:21 PM | #21 | |
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I had to go behind them and secure 3 engine bolts that were just sitting there and then started working the P0171 error. I found 4 different vacuum leaks (usually the cause of this error) that were due to the repair shop either not plugging up a hose, or plugging it up incorrectly. Together with coding all of the stuff that I had in it before, that's where I am with it. The car runs great, even with the error. Fun stuff.
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08-13-2016, 01:27 PM | #22 | |
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The turbo I didn't have to replace. I just wanted to.
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