Jblack4083 wrote

flightz71 wrote

Did I read this right... X5M and X6M are very popular with young female's in Asia?

Good god just from this comment we can see the M brand purely stands for marketing. Those cars are obviously sold as pure status symbols without any of it's potential utilized anymore.

This is funny because at the beginning of his post he clarified that BMW is going to use these "volume sellers" as a means to an end. In order to get cars like an M3 CSL, M3 CRT, 1M / M2, and other "special" editions that won't really produce any profit for the M division, BMW needs to have these cars that go against the philosophy but make a lot of money. Everyone knows the X5M and X6M are not track cars but in a sense souped up SUVs. I'd rather the M division be profitable AND able to kick out competition killer cars with innovative concepts than to not have M SAVs. As sad as it sounds...

If you people ran BMW M the division would go broke within 1 year... You guys have no idea what it takes to run a business.

From an American consumer standpoint this really doesn't mean a thing. M SAV's dilute the brand here. It's not like BMW is giving our market sweet M cars such as the CSL, GTS, or CRT. BMW isn't like Porsche where it uses profits generated from SUV's and sedans to give us cars such as the GT3/GT2 RS. BMW isn't like mercedes which slaps an AMG badge on every car but gives us machines the like its black series or SLS.

It's not like I can afford any of those cars but what you're saying is that these M suv's are here to give us performance M cars. That's not something that us outside Europe/Asia can take advantage of.

blipit wrote

Your logic is incorrect. They do not need to produce M-suvs in order to fund the M-division. The M-division has been just fine for almost 40 years, without watering it down.

BMW makes their money from their high volume non-M vehicles.

No. M is a standalone business. M GmbH must be financially viable and profitable by itself.

Evolution_GT wrote

X3M... not a bad idea... X1M... pointless

maybe in North America, but in Europe it would work I think. The X1 is selling very well here, and I a sporty M version will be a niche and will for sure find its customers.

Jblack4083 wrote

This is funny because at the beginning of his post he clarified that BMW is going to use these "volume sellers" as a means to an end. In order to get cars like an M3 CSL, M3 CRT, 1M / M2, and other "special" editions that won't really produce any profit for the M division, BMW needs to have these cars that go against the philosophy but make a lot of money. Everyone knows the X5M and X6M are not track cars but in a sense souped up SUVs. I'd rather the M division be profitable AND able to kick out competition killer cars with innovative concepts than to not have M SAVs. As sad as it sounds...

If you people ran BMW M the division would go broke within 1 year... You guys have no idea what it takes to run a business.

exactly !!! If people think that the M division can only live from lightweight, powerful coupes/sedans with a high price tag, forget it. In the end to few people would buy it. Even quite some people shouting BMW should only make them will not buy them in the end because they would be expensive.

Why does M need to be profitable? Thought the idea of a halo range was to shift the more affordable units below, M3s sell more 318s. Comparing with Porsche is moot, their elite sporting range is RS to BMWs M, I've got a large hat here I'll happily eat if we ever see Porsche produce a Cayanne RS.

I think BMW M is trying to out do AMG, here is the count so far:

AMG: C,E,S,SL,CL,ML,G,SLK

BMW M: 1,3,5,6,X3,X5,X6,X1

All we need now is the Z4 and & 7.

1BMW4fun wrote

I think BMW M is trying to out do AMG, here is the count so far:

AMG: C,E,S,SL,CL,ML,G,SLK

BMW M: 1,3,5,6,X3,X5,X6,X1

All we need now is the Z4 and & 7.

7M

uhn2000 wrote

BMW really has no choice. They must stay ahead of the competition and with their new extensible platform they have huge capability to develop these models and build them quickly. Nothing wrong with ///M SUVs as long as they are special!

Pretty much spot on imo.

Lord_Goda wrote

Why does M need to be profitable? Thought the idea of a halo range was to shift the more affordable units below, M3s sell more 318s. Comparing with Porsche is moot, their elite sporting range is RS to BMWs M, I've got a large hat here I'll happily eat if we ever see Porsche produce a Cayanne RS.

As I said I think M GmbH is a standalone business. A separate enterprise that should be independent financially. That's BMW's philosophy. They won't accept making losses in M GmbH to produce some halo cars like VW did with the Bugatti Veyron. BMW likes to be profitable in every single step of its business (to make it simple). I support that philosophy because it is that too that makes BMW as a group so healthy now in comparison to their rivals. Let alone Audi that has got the VW backing and economies of scale privileges. After all F1 is the biggest "halo" there is and BMW ditched it for the sake of saving resources and I value that. It was a brave and right (however criticized) move to be taken at that time.

Anyways the RS brand is not comparable to M GmbH. M is more likely comparable to the Porsche as a whole than to RS alone. Ok I admit the Cayenne is the anomaly here. But there was a Cayenne GTS nevertheless.
It's more AMG and Quattro GmbH that are comparable to M.

So... it looks like the X1M and X3M will be a cash cow - just like the X5/X6 M's were for BMW.

I hope //M GmbH creates us a worthy M sports car with the proceeds of their M-SAV projects. And... "not be limited, but hard to get" //M car - like their latest offering. //M really needs to get back to its roots and all these SAV's just aren't doing it for me.


Dackel

euvnairb wrote

From an American consumer standpoint this really doesn't mean a thing. M SAV's dilute the brand here. It's not like BMW is giving our market sweet M cars such as the CSL, GTS, or CRT. BMW isn't like Porsche where it uses profits generated from SUV's and sedans to give us cars such as the GT3/GT2 RS. BMW isn't like mercedes which slaps an AMG badge on every car but gives us machines the like its black series or SLS.

It's not like I can afford any of those cars but what you're saying is that these M suv's are here to give us performance M cars. That's not something that us outside Europe/Asia can take advantage of.

I definitely understand what you're saying. It's also important to note that the M SAVs are what gave us the 1M... Maybe I was wrong in saying "special editions" but its definitely true that the low volume, no profit cars that we see as special and geared to the enthusiast, are made possible by these volume sellers.

Another point I'd like to bring up is, if ///M makes a car that suits the enthusiast well and provides to be a competition killer, why care what else they offer. If it takes some ///M SUVs to bring you an M3 Lightweight or CRT... Why the fuss? They're always going to produce a car that suits the enthusiast regardless of what other cars they produce.

BMW ///M has to be profitable on its own. Afterall, it is a business and BMW has/is making an attempt to really separate it into its own sub-brand instead of just an in-house tuning company. It has to make money. It wont make money producing the ridiculous 2,200 pound, carbon fiber roof, manual transmission only, stripped out track racer cars that all of the forum members seem to want.

Once again... You guys have no idea what it takes to run a business. You cant ALWAYS think like a consumer.

Same shit talk every time from some members as it was with 1M, then BMW releasd the car and it was a HIT!
Same will happen this time.

would be interested in an X1M

Lord_Goda wrote

Why does M need to be profitable? Thought the idea of a halo range was to shift the more affordable units below, M3s sell more 318s. Comparing with Porsche is moot, their elite sporting range is RS to BMWs M, I've got a large hat here I'll happily eat if we ever see Porsche produce a Cayanne RS.

You are joking, right?

"The target against the X5M is to be around 1200 pounds lighter"

I think this is huge!

it's a great business idea to spread the M models but at the same time, M is becoming less exclusive. The consumers will have to spend more money to have exclusive products like the M3 CSL..M3 CRT... just to have that special car like 'the M3' that was so exclusive back in the days.

Jblack4083 wrote

flightz71 wrote

Did I read this right... X5M and X6M are very popular with young female's in Asia?

Good god just from this comment we can see the M brand purely stands for marketing. Those cars are obviously sold as pure status symbols without any of it's potential utilized anymore.

This is funny because at the beginning of his post he clarified that BMW is going to use these "volume sellers" as a means to an end. In order to get cars like an M3 CSL, M3 CRT, 1M / M2, and other "special" editions that won't really produce any profit for the M division, BMW needs to have these cars that go against the philosophy but make a lot of money. Everyone knows the X5M and X6M are not track cars but in a sense souped up SUVs. I'd rather the M division be profitable AND able to kick out competition killer cars with innovative concepts than to not have M SAVs. As sad as it sounds...

If you people ran BMW M the division would go broke within 1 year... You guys have no idea what it takes to run a business.

Yes. Thank you for talking some sense into people...

1BMW4fun wrote

I think BMW M is trying to out do AMG, here is the count so far:

AMG: C,E,S,SL,CL,ML,G,SLK

BMW M: 1,3,5,6,X3,X5,X6,X1

All we need now is the Z4 and

jerrypon83 wrote

4 cylinder M car??

"I'd like to have a word with you..."

termigni wrote

it's a great business idea to spread the M models but at the same time, M is becoming less exclusive. The consumers will have to spend more money to have exclusive products like the M3 CSL..M3 CRT... just to have that special car like 'the M3' that was so exclusive back in the days.

Well, technically the car that is robbing the M badge of its exclusivity is the M3 as it's by far the biggest seller. I have yet to see either an X5 or X6M on the road.

Personally, I don't mind the idea of X3M or X1M, I'm sure they'd both be a hoot to drive, so long as the money is re-invested in producing a bonkers version of the M6

make them if they will fund future M models. but at least name them something else, dont give them the ///M, give them an ///S or just the ///!!!! i remember M was for Motorsport. were are you going to see an x1,x3,x5,x6 M race??
make them powered by M as its the X5m and X6M now. just dont give them the Motorsport badge. save it for car that may actually see a track..

Release dates?