[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yes, just as I said, they will try to fix that next year. But, as I also said, it may be too little too late.

A small sedan like the 2GC goes down well in the USA and China. Do you think consumers care that Audi and M-B came out with something in a similar form factor on an econo-platform before? I don't.

They are just now touching 300hp with the small vehicle platform, while the competition is about to blow past 400hp. They put all their M eggs in the the I6 basket, and they decided they only needed the M2 which is a great performance coupe that's trying to woo people who want a performance sedan or SUV. It doesn't matter how good the product is when its not the right form factor for a large portion of the enthusiast market.

In overall sales volumes it doesn't matter that much in because the enthusiast market is pretty small... I suppose I don't understand the criticism of BMW for making a coupé when the thesis is that no-one wants a coupé. It's been a good seller for an essentially niche vehicle, and how good it is vs. the TT, Cayman, Alpine and others is critical. It's not the making it a coupé that's "wrong", it's not putting that engine in a truck!

That's not correct. The 2 GC absolutely is a global vehicle with its sites set on the US small premium sedan market.

Global and with its sights set on the US small premium sedan market? I don't understand you.

You opened the discussion about the US market. We don't have the 1 Series hatchbacks here, performance versions or otherwise.

You hypothesised that BMW was asleep at the wheel. Yet up until a month ago when the 1 was discontinued, they own the hot-hatch market here; the M140i is a performance bargain and the straight-six that you denigrated above (I thought BMW fans were happy that BMW stuck with that form factor?) is a great differentiator.

This part is relatively unclear, but if I interpret you correctly, you are saying that the next 1 Series performance hatchback will remain popular if it is built on CLAR. Well guess what? It won't be. It is moving to UKL, and now what? The switch to this platform could have come with a silver lining if BMW had a true M chassis and engine ready so as to realize improved performance from the last generation. But they don't.

Your interpretation was incorrect. I said that the x40i was top of the tree and that I believed the 2 coupe, which will continue to be based on the CLAR platform, will remain competitive. It's still about the best coupe you can buy for the money - again, on this side.

I was aware that the 1 and 2GC will fit on the UKL.

Nah. They didn't think they needed to. And they do not have a "very, very hot 'four'". They have a passable mid-range performance I4, that's it.

Go back and read again. I said they were capable of it. Look at their history. The fact that BMW does not produce a 400 bhp four-cylinder motor does not mean they will never produce one. If you doubt they are capable, then so be it.

Be it the result of too much turnover in the leadership of their performance arm, or simple arrogance, they absolutely did drop the ball. If they hadn't dropped the ball, we'd have 300hp and 400hp small BMW sedans and SUVs on BMW lots today.

X3 M40i - 382 bhp?

You're right, there's no mini-sedan yet. There was one, the 3 series, but everyone wanted it bigger and plusher.

Back to the original premise: what you need are small sedans and SUVs with 400 bhp+, presumably for going 155 mph in Montana. Sales of those in Germany, for example, are tiny. They all have 1.8 and 2.0 petrols and diesels. You also need electric vehicles like the Tesla, and enthusiasts need extreme track cars you basically trailer to the circuit. What China needs is quite different; what Europe needs is obviously different again. I see absolutely lots of reasons why BMW would consider splitting its product development off for the NA market, as it did with China, and I would put money on it.