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      03-20-2013, 01:54 PM   #23
Matski
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FFS!!! it's really not that confusing (or surprising) if you stop trying to pidgeon hole everybody in the world in line with what you think peoples buying choices should be!

BMW is building more X's because people are buying them.
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      03-20-2013, 02:18 PM   #24
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4 coupe, 4 GT and now X4. Just raising the footstep..
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      03-20-2013, 02:22 PM   #25
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Any chance of seeing an official X4 Concept at New York or Shanghai?
I want to change cars and I'm currently looking at X6's or possibly a new X4 if I'm able to get some official information.
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      03-20-2013, 02:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
The same as a 4-door SUV minus 2 doors. Not everyone needs 4-doors, hence why there are coupe verions of sedans. Another reason would be the size and/or wheelbase. If you don't want the extra size or longer wheelbase, the 2-door version of an SUV may be a better fit. For example, look at the 4-door vs. 2-door versions of:

Chevy Suburban and Blazer/Tahoe (older models)
Land Rover Defender 110 and Defender 90
Mercedes Geländewagen 4-door and 2-door
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and Wrangler
To me a 2-door suv defeats the whole purpose of an SUV. SUV's are for utility and hauling people around.
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      03-20-2013, 02:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
They're certainly betting that this is the case:



That quote applies only to the X3, but they appear to be supply constrained. Flexible platform sharing is the holy grail of automotive technology. How many times have you heard someone say, "I'd totally buy car XYZ, but I really don't like how it ABC" in response to a refresh of an existing model? Varying the line up is a means to capture more buyers by providing specifically the car they want.

Unfortunately (maybe) for BMW, this could also be history repeating itself. Detroit has used a similar strategy in the past. That's how GM ended up with so many brands. The idea was to diversify their line up to the point that they literally had a car for everyone. The difference with BMW is better technology is available this round. Better platform sharing technology allows for a lot of flexibility, while still reducing engineering and tooling costs.
Certainly, the redundancy in Detroit's line-ups was part of it's downfall but, suffice it to say that they had many more problems, in addition to this one.

I'm sure BMW is going to be just fine but, I'm just wondering if they aren't diluting themselves, a bit. Sure, platform sharing can make low volume models much more affortable for manufacturers. However, I've never known german automakers to be ones to look to maximize profits by trying to cover the whole market. When have any of the big German three ever made so many models for export? I mean, if they say there is demand and, they can sell then, they can sell. I'm just surprised.
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      03-20-2013, 02:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
To me a 2-door suv defeats the whole purpose of an SUV. SUV's are for utility and hauling people around.
I mean, that's fine. But, there have been successful 2-dool SUVs before. Two Fords (and a mazda) come to mind, already. I'd guess BMW is trying to get into this market because, I'm sure there are plenty of people who tend to drive around alone (like I do) but, like SUVs.
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      03-20-2013, 02:34 PM   #29
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This is like trying to build the next best Minivan. Every mfg is making CUV's
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      03-20-2013, 02:41 PM   #30
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they think this won't cannibalize sales? what are they smoking?


Just like the X1 wouldn't take away from 1 series, X3, and 3 series sales, look at the latest sales reports!

Personally owning a '12 X3 and '13 335 xdrive, this is a possibility to replace one of those cars, so yes it would cannibalize sales from my family
Basically if the X4 offers the same cargo FLOOR space but just a little taken off the top, we will probably replace the X3 with it, if the trunk is no bigger than a 3 wagon or 3GT, then it won't be an option (but may be for a 335i replacement if they make a X4M xdrive).

although at the same time if there was no X4, we might go to the new Porsche Macan or ... wait no one else makes anything like that (not yet at least).
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      03-20-2013, 02:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
To me a 2-door suv defeats the whole purpose of an SUV. SUV's are for utility and hauling people around.
Sometimes the only purpose of a thing is to satisfy our desire for said thing. Take diamonds, for example. They're intrinsically worthless. They're not particularly rare either, but people buy them up in droves for thousands of dollars per caret. Why? Because people desire them. They're sparkly. They're expensive, and therefore they impart status. Some people are more rational than others, but IMO, the emotives are the mass market.
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      03-20-2013, 02:48 PM   #32
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Surely I can't be the only one who thinks this is getting absurd..
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      03-20-2013, 03:01 PM   #33
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900 million for making roughly 50 thousand more per year? doesn't sound like a good bang per buck. I'd think that with that amount of money you could make another plant
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      03-20-2013, 03:15 PM   #34
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The battle of the crossovers, or what I like to call the useless vehicles. Audi has the same plans with their Q offerings. The Germans are betting on this market segment for growth and profits. They are all ugly and pointless to me.

In the end, if they generate profits and bring us great M and sporty cars I'm okay with that. Afterall, the Cayenne profits Porsche to still deliver the excellent 911 and now the new Cayman.
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      03-20-2013, 03:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
To me a 2-door suv defeats the whole purpose of an SUV. SUV's are for utility and hauling people around.
That is probably what the majority of SUV owners use them for, I don't doubt that. However, there are people who also use their SUV's for four wheeling, which a shorter wheelbase and typically a 2-door model usually works better for. Though, 2-door SUV's like the new Land Rover Evoque and the render pictured really aren't the kind used for four wheeling. I suppose they are more intended for the style aspect.
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      03-20-2013, 03:28 PM   #36
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I would love a bigger x5. Right now, my best options for the wife are a Q7 or Merc Gl. We have the Q7 now, it's a good car, but Audi's customer service is terrible. We shuffle the family around in her car all weekend, my car really is only used to go back and forth to work. The x5 just isn't big enough once you add a 90 pound dog or a 3rd kid. I say this not to whine that they should build it, but to point out the reason that they might be building an x4, x2, x7 or whatever. For me it's not cannibalizing, it's getting a buyer that wants their product.
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      03-20-2013, 04:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
They're certainly betting that this is the case:



That quote applies only to the X3, but they appear to be supply constrained. Flexible platform sharing is the holy grail of automotive technology. How many times have you heard someone say, "I'd totally buy car XYZ, but I really don't like how it ABC" in response to a refresh of an existing model? Varying the line up is a means to capture more buyers by providing specifically the car they want.

Unfortunately (maybe) for BMW, this could also be history repeating itself. Detroit has used a similar strategy in the past. That's how GM ended up with so many brands. The idea was to diversify their line up to the point that they literally had a car for everyone. The difference with BMW is better technology is available this round. Better platform sharing technology allows for a lot of flexibility, while still reducing engineering and tooling costs.
I don't think that what BMW is doing to greatly expand their body style choices atop flexible underpinnings is exactly comparable to Detroit's "badge engineering". With GM, they would take literally the exact same car with the exact same silhouette, exact same primary components, and even many of the exact same interior fixtures, and they would slightly modify the body panels. So they might sell their compact SUV model as a GMC, a Chevy, a Buick, and a Pontiac, and then they would support a sales and service network for the car under each of those brands.

What BMW is doing is realizing the possibilities presented by new flexible car platforms to offer a wide variety of distinct body styles, including many that are more niche and previously wouldn't have made economic sense to bring to market.

For example, look at the 5er sedan and wagon, the 6er coupe, convertible, and GC, and the 7er in both short and long wheelbase. Those are all built on the same exact platform, but I think we can all agree that they are relatively distinct choices. Even just comparing the 5er sedan vs the 6er GC, there are appreciable differences and any one person might totally prefer one over the other. It looks like part of the future of premium cars is going to be about personalization and having a car style that perfectly suits your needs.

The 5er sedan and wagon and 7er sedan are obviously cars that BMW has produced for a long time, but they have only produced the 6er coupe/convertible on an intermittent basis, probably because the market for grand touring cars is much lower volume than those other body styles. But realizing the economies of these new platforms, they can afford to continuously offer not only a grand touring car style but also the "4 door coupe" style which has proven extremely popular. Your own opinion might be that the 6er GC isn't differentiable enough from the 5er sedan, but the amazing success of the Merc CLS and Audi A7 has proven the existence of a market of people willing to pay a premium to take their sedans with a sportier profile.

So now you have the choice: do you want your midsize sedan with the typical sedan profile, or are you willing to sacrifice some rear headroom to get a sportier look? Soon people will be cross-shopping between the 3er sedan, wagon, GT, and the 4er GC, so some people will prefer the classic sedan dimensions, some will prefer the extra utility of the wagon or GT, some will prefer the sleeker look of the 4er GC, etc. Much more than that, there is a constant stream of weird looking BMW concept sketches being published on bimmerpost.com. Apparently they are considering "2 door fastbacks" and "low profile 3 door hatchbacks" and all manner of uncommon car body styles that BMW probably feels the need to consider as these new flexible car platforms open up a world of possibilities that they know their competitors will be considering, and they would rather be at the forefront of these new body styles than play catch-up after they were pioneered by someone else.
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      03-20-2013, 04:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
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It should have four doors and a coupe-like roofline. Think smaller X6. What you see above is just a purely imaginative render used for representative purposes in this article.
Shame.

If the X4 did come in a 3dr 'coupe' format it would be something I'd very seriously consider in a few years time.
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      03-20-2013, 04:33 PM   #39
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In my opinion, for what that is worth, the more you dilute what you do, the less you will excel in a given task. If you need surgery on your neck do you go see the spine surgeon who does it consistently, or the general orthopedic who does 6 per year???
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      03-20-2013, 04:44 PM   #40
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So there will be 1-7 series & x1-7 series. And //M edition in pretty much all.

Edit1: I forgot GT variant.

Edit2: And may be Z1 - Z7 as well???

This is so frekin confusing to market and capitalize on markets.
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      03-20-2013, 04:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Sometimes the only purpose of a thing is to satisfy our desire for said thing. Take diamonds, for example. They're intrinsically worthless. They're not particularly rare either, but people buy them up in droves for thousands of dollars per caret. Why? Because people desire them. They're sparkly. They're expensive, and therefore they impart status. Some people are more rational than others, but IMO, the emotives are the mass market.


Yes its all about desire, why would anyone buy an evoque? its not practical, but I have to admit I love the looks of it (4 door only).

oh and you are sort of right about diamonds, white diamonds are very common, but colored ones are not (blue, pink, especially red!). Also rare depends on how you define it, lots of items are rare because they are not mined but that doesn't mean its a rare element intrinsically worthless, true! and people pay double or triple to have one that "sparkles" more than others, just like people spend double or triple on cars because they "sparkle" more than others.
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      03-20-2013, 05:27 PM   #42
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This is one ugly ass render. The 90s called and want their fog lights back.
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      03-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #43
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And the brand dilution continues. I know their job is to sell vehicles, but 6er Gran Coupe? 5er GT? X4? Sigh.
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      03-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt
Can BMW really sell enough of all these new models to make it worth while?
In the most simplest of explanations; Economies of scale. This is something the BMW AG have been building very nicely and appropriately on the QT over the past 15 years.

So in my view, as much as I am hesitant and slow to warm to, this strategy will most likely work for them given their cash surplus over the same time period.

However, what I, like many others on here, am afraid of is; if BMW go down the route of catering for every person and every niche within a niche when does this negate the profit margin. All I hope is that, there are some smart cookies/operators at the top who have BMW's legacy/heritage at hand went making any such decisions on when to give the green light to such a project.
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