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      12-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
Are you certain? Thought it was coming out next year.
LCI comes in the the 4th model year of the 7-year cycle.

Since 2011 was the first model year for the F25, it is reasonable to expect LCI for MY2015. Besides, MY2014 should start in March 2013 (three months), and we've only seen one F25 test mule out there. Would be more sightings if it was really coming in 3 months.
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      12-20-2012, 10:02 PM   #24
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LCI comes in the the 4th model year of the 7-year cycle.

Since 2011 was the first model year for the F25, it is reasonable to expect LCI for MY2015. Besides, MY2014 should start in March 2013 (three months), and we've only seen one F25 test mule out there. Would be more sightings if it was really coming in 3 months.
4th year - wouldn't that mean MY14 ie released in 2013?
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      12-20-2012, 10:25 PM   #25
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4th year - wouldn't that mean MY14 ie released in 2013?
Oops, I meant 5th year, of the 7-year cycle.

Recent mainstream BMW models have been on this 5th-year-of-7 cycle. For example:

E92/E93, LCI for MY2011, began with MY2007
F01/F02, LCI for MY2013, began with MY2009
E70, LCI for MY2011, began with MY2007
E82/E88 LCI for MY2012, began with MY2008
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      12-22-2012, 12:06 AM   #26
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If the X1 works for you size-wize, and you enjoy driving a sports car, I'd take a good look at the X1.

I made the right choice with the X3 in my case, but it doesn't quite handle as well as I had hoped. The X1, in theory, would feel a bit more planted and sporty.
Very sporty especially with the hydraulic steering! Too small for our needs, but I think it's a very sporty car.
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      12-22-2012, 12:09 AM   #27
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This all helps a lot, thanks folks. For those with black interior, does it get crazy hot in warmer climates? Debating between black or mojave (brown/gray) wife concerned black will get super hot to the touch unless we tint everything dark. From the bimmers I've owned in the past I remember that Nevada leather doesn't heat up and get scorching like other leather. Right/wrong? What's your experience?
Mojave is my favorite X3 interior. Made the SAV a bit too dark for my wife's taste especially with the black headliner the M Sport comes with. Reminds me of an old briefcase I used to use.
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      12-22-2012, 08:13 AM   #28
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56.6k MSRP down to 52.6k after 1k rebate is where we are now. Debating lease or finance...these cars hold their value it seems but I just love the risk free care free lease life
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      12-22-2012, 09:38 AM   #29
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56.6k MSRP down to 52.6k after 1k rebate is where we are now. Debating lease or finance...these cars hold their value it seems but I just love the risk free care free lease life
Check you're favorite site, perhaps Kelly Blue Book, to see what the value of a similarly configured 2011 or 2012 is.
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      12-22-2012, 03:01 PM   #30
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Values seem to hold up really well.

OK I bit - MSRP $56.7k; Selling price after $1k rebate (i dont qualify for any loyalty or college grad) = $52.7k. Roughly 7% off, seems fair to me. Excited.
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      12-22-2012, 06:53 PM   #31
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I think 7% discount is on the good side of the average discount. My car was $57.7K ($65.3 after taxes) and that was a 6% discount.

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Values seem to hold up really well.

OK I bit - MSRP $56.7k; Selling price after $1k rebate (i dont qualify for any loyalty or college grad) = $52.7k. Roughly 7% off, seems fair to me. Excited.
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      12-22-2012, 11:31 PM   #32
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Values seem to hold up really well.

OK I bit - MSRP $56.7k; Selling price after $1k rebate (i dont qualify for any loyalty or college grad) = $52.7k. Roughly 7% off, seems fair to me. Excited.
Excellent and congratulations!
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      12-23-2012, 11:11 PM   #33
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Have a 35i MSport X3 and 28i XDrive MSport X1 and both are excellent. X3 almost 2 years old and the X1 just over a month.
The X3 has some neat features lacking in the X1.
In no particular order: heated steering wheel in the MSport, birds eye 3 camera system, power tailgate, retractable cargo cover, retractable pet net, side by side front cup holders, drivers storage cubby, rear heat and a/c vents, 8 preset buttons, audio scroll feature on steering wheel, auto day/night option for nav display, newer graphics on drivers display, cargo floor rails with adjustable tie downs and higher seating position.
Having mentioned these items, the X1 is considerably less expensive and is getting about 28 mpg after 1,100 miles(25 mpg in the X3 after 15,000 miles driving the same roads). Prefer the steering feel in the X1. Also our X1 has ASS and EcoPro.
We love both, but SWMBO is much happier driving the X1 even tho we have xDrive without servotronic.
While the X3 is a beast if you hit the gas, the X1 feels more than amply powered.
Best of luck with your purchase.
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      01-06-2013, 07:00 PM   #34
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While I think Rory has made a decision, this might help others. Early last year we did the small SUV search and drove a TON of stuff (well over a dozen makes/models - new and used). I'll spare you all the details, but not surprisingly it came down to the X3, Q5 and Volvo's XC60. What IS surprising is that we ended up with the XC60.

Here is a post I made (on the Volvo forum) after we had driven all three (note: X3 28i was the previous straight 6 2012 model, but we also drove the 35i):
************************************************** **************************************
Well, as part of our NEVER-ENDING small SUV shopping for my wife we went out and test drove a few vehicles today. My wife and I have both driven XC60s (3.2 and T6s), and she had drive the Audi Q5 in both 2.0T and 3.2 trims. Neither of us had driven the X3 (we own a few BMWs as I've mentioned in other threads). In short...I wish I could combine the best of these three into one SUV. Our impressions:

1. Powertrain - This was no contest...the T6 RD simply outperformed the Audi 2.0T and X3 28. The shocker for me ( an owner of 3 BMWs) was that it felt significantly better than the X3 35 (also a turbo 3.0). I don't know if it was a combination of the BMW tranny upshifting so dang quickly that it simply lagged, and then hit with a hard downshift when you legged it or what. I would not have believed the difference to have been so dramatic if I had not experienced it. The transmission on the T6 appears well-mated and shifts occurred when they needed to. The Audi's 8 speed tranny was also pretty well matched to the 2.0t (turbo 4), but it NEEDS to be since that motor ideally needs a bit more torque. The BMW - again, a disappointment on the 35. The 28 was better, but only adequate (better than a 3.2 Volvo though). Both the Q5 and BMWs had a weird somewhat sensitive tip-in that was a bit aggravating. Ultimately, the T6 RD performance here is really compelling (esp for a guy who owns an older M3 and M5).

2. Exterior Styling - Frankly, there isn't a bad looking SUV in this bunch. The BMW is muscular looking. The Audi is elegant, and the Volvo is swoopy. From the rear, side and 3/4 rear view the XC60 is pretty nice - but from the front...meh. The Audi looks great from the front and the back isn't too bad either - the side view is more "stubby" - overall, it is probably the one most people would say "looks good, nothing 'wrong'". The BMW has a good overall presence about it, but probably lacks a distinctive specific feature...heck, I think I just forgot what it looked like! Look, this one is going to come down to personal preference more than anything. We test drove a passion red (my preference) which "helps" the XC60 IMO.

3. Interior - This one is tough, but I have to say the BMW and Audi are a step above the Volvo in terms of interior build quality and materials. The BMW appears to be the best, followed by the Audi and then Volvo. From a purely visual perspective the Volvo has a LOT of interest, especially with the two-tone RD seats. The Audi cam across as austere in all-black, but I've seen a cinnamon interior in the Audi and it looks great (and breaks up the sea of black nicely). The BMW seemed to scream "I've got money...and I spent it on this interior". The Volvo had the best rear-seat room and comfort. The Audi's rear seat seemed cramped and the bench was...well...hard! The BMW seats looked and felt great, but I swear they seemed low and I was sitting more "knees high" than the others...I need to go back and compare them again, but that's how it seemed. The durability of the leather has us REALLY concerned on the Volvo. Frankly, we drove a manager demo with a paltry 1500 miles and you could tell the seats were already wearing. I see this noted on other subforums here too. The RD looks like the leather may actually be a tad softer than the already soft XC60 leather...this and the larger bolsters could be trouble. The BMW leather looked to be able to last forever much like my wife's 11 year old 530i with dang near perfect leather. The Audi looked to be somewhere in between, but probably closer to the BMW end.

4. Tech - Volvo Sensus vs. BMW iDrive vs. Audi MMI. So, today was my first time to use any of these systems (the previous XC60's we drove were pre-sensus). Overall, the Volvo system looks to be half a generation behind the Audi and BMW setups. This is consistent with what other reviewers have reported. However, it isn't the end of the world. The Audi system seems to have everything but the kitchen sink in it and a button for everything. Some things, however, are needlessly complex (like adjusting the seat heaters). Frankly, folks, sometimes a dedicated button is just easier/better. I do like how the Audi makes use of the center gauge display as well as the screen. The BMW seemed easier to use than either of them...imagine that...after all these years, a positive review for iDrive. It did have the coolest navigation screen showing the buildings, etc. I did like the dedicated radio station buttons in the BMW and Volvo. (ironic given that the Audi had more buttons total). I would say both Sensus and iDrive are the easier of the two systems to use. Finally, all of this tech stuff is nice, but to me it is kind of a gimmick and I'm not likely to weigh it nearly as heavily as driving dynamics, interior quality, comfort, power, styling, etc.

5. Ride Comfort - The Audi (19" rims) and BMW X3 28 (non-sport) were tied for first here. The T6 RD rode more stiffly with more impact harshness. The BMW X35 also rode a bit harshly. Impact harshness and noise were probably better than the RD, but the general josstling about seemed worse. I took all of them on reasonably long test drives and purposely asked for some rougher roads, freeway, etc. Noise level (wind/road) in the XC60 and Q5 seemed comparable. The BMWs were a touch better.

6. Handling - In all honesty, none of these are sports cars or even sports sedans (despite what the manufacturers would like you to believe). I was actually favorably impressed with all three. The BMW was probably best, but I wasn't like "OMG, BMW IS KING OF ALL HANDLING!" - and the sport package on the X3 35 wasn't worth the ride comfort penalty to me. The Audi was probably the best compromise here, but the steering was much lighter than expected.

7. Build Quality - BMW = #1, Audi = #2, and Volvo = #3. Again, the BMW and Audi are just operating at another level here. I'm not slamming the XC60. It is what it is. The Germans just feel more like they are carved from a solid piece of granite. The doors shut with more of a thunk, etc.

8. Braking - Big surprise here...I give the nod to the Volvo XC60. It came down to brake feel more than anything. It was firm and linear in the Volvo while the other two were a bit grabby and non-linear. Not a decision maker in and of itself...just another data point.

If could combine them, I would probably take the Volvo's engine and tranny, the BMWs steering, suspension and front seats, the Volvo's rear seats, roominess and cargo area, the Audi's exterior (maybe somehow meld it with the Volvo's) and Audi's MMI (I am an IT guy so...).

Anyway, we actually made an offer on the XC60, but were within a $1000 and walked away...and walked right over to the BMW dealer. We test drove the BMWs there, but did not make an offer.

The wild cards here could be a 2013 X3 with the new turbo 4 (I assume the X3 is about to get it like everything else in the line-up) AND the 2013 Audi Q5 which will get the supercharged 3.0 I6.

Ugh...this search is never going to end!

Here is the post from after the purchase:

It was a long day for my wife yesterday driving these cars back to back (yeah, yeah, I know -"First world problems"), trying to decide which of the vehicles to choose. The pros/cons for each car were still true. The BMW was still in a class by itself in terms of material quality, rock solid construction, etc. and probably would have been our choice had it not been for the basic "drive" of the car. The throttle tip-in issue was simply annoying. To quote my wife during her test drive "I could probably get 'used to it'...I am driving right now with my shoe off trying to adjust to it" - I'm sorry, but having to adjust to a throttle pedal is just ridiculous. Conversely, she declared the XC60 to simply be "more fun to drive", "more intuitive", "like an extension of me". Keep in mind we own 3 BMWs (well two now) - two of which are M cars (97 M3 and '02 M5)...we are not unfamiliar with BMWs!

The Audis (2.0T and 3.2) were both really nice, but perhaps devoid of a bit of passion. There was nothing inherently wrong with them and we can see why they win all the comparisons.

I knew whichever one we chose would mean regretting something. If we chose the BMW, we would miss the Volvo's power (note: see my disappointment in the delivery of the X3 35s power) and sleek lines. If we chose the Volvo, we knew there would be a ride comfort, build quality and resale value compromise. If we chose the Audi, I would have probably felt we had a nice car, but been ambivalent about it...and I didn't want to feel ambivalent about a $40K+ outlay.

So, here we sit with our new XC60. The ride comfort is definitely the biggest compromise (as noted in my thread on that very topic) with the R-Design. I told my wife "You picked the sports car of the bunch!". She is concerned this morning (classic buyer's remorse) that passengers will find it too rough. I assured her it would be fine, but it is what it is. Keep in mind, she had been driving her non-sport 530i all day which is comparatively cushy. I know this sounds critical, but I didn't want to post some generic "We bought an XC60 and the world is all candy and roses now" kind of review! The power is awesome, the drive is easy, it looks awesome (really, very cool both outside and in), and so far Sensus seems pretty dang decent and is definitely competitive as compared to the other cars (frankly, it is a non-issue).

Our specific model is, of course, a 2012 Passion red with the off-black interior with cream accents (best combo ever...of course my last three cars were Lemans Blue, Devil Yellow and Hellrot Red so you might say I am biased to bright colors), platinum package and cold weather package. This is exactly how we would have ordered one if it hadn't come up locally. We have three Volvo dealers in the area (Dallas/Ft. Worth) and this is a pretty rare combo around here.

My favorite "feature" so far: PCC. Let's face it, not having to mess with your keys is just nice...hardly critical, but nice.

I expect to provide an update to this thread or create a new one as time progresses

Pics:






************************************************** **************************************
10 months later and we may or may not have made the same decision. Frankly, the Volvo's looks are better (purely subjective) and I still think the power is great. A friend got new M-sport 2013 28i (the 4 banger) and I thought the power was merely adequate compared to the T6 RD. Mileage at 20-21 on the Volvo is nothing to write home about though AND 3 months after we bought it I decided that the ride was indeed too rough and swapped out the rear shocks and springs for the standard suspension ($500 and an afternoon well spent).
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      01-06-2013, 09:21 PM   #35
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Really good post, thanks for all the detail. One thing that really surprised me though - the X3 35i is definitely faster than the XC60R. That was one of the reasons we opted for the X3 M 35i over the Volvo despite the significant price difference. The other reasons (technology/quality of screen and dash, no paddles, transmission feel, wife didn't care for the looks although I think she's nuts) we maybe could have gotten over but for us, the X3 was clearly quicker and more fun to drive. Interesting how our opinions differ there, just goes to show each person feels what they feel.

I really liked the Volvo though, more than the Q5 which I agree lacks passion inside and out.
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      01-06-2013, 10:02 PM   #36
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Really good post, thanks for all the detail. One thing that really surprised me though - the X3 35i is definitely faster than the XC60R. That was one of the reasons we opted for the X3 M 35i over the Volvo despite the significant price difference. The other reasons (technology/quality of screen and dash, no paddles, transmission feel, wife didn't care for the looks although I think she's nuts) we maybe could have gotten over but for us, the X3 was clearly quicker and more fun to drive. Interesting how our opinions differ there, just goes to show each person feels what they feel.

I really liked the Volvo though, more than the Q5 which I agree lacks passion inside and out.
+1

Volvo XC60 goes 0-60 in 6.6

BMW X3 35i goes 0-60 in 5.5
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      01-06-2013, 10:02 PM   #37
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Excellent post and nice pics. From your pics I see you bought at Autobahn. We also got our X3 35i there, after deciding against your Volvo and the Audi Q5 (in that order). Probably the nicest drivers environment we sat in when we were looking at other vehicles was the Range Rover Sport, but overall it was a bit too large for SWMBO. When we got our X3 the 28i still had the straight 6, and I preferred the extra get up and go of the 35i. Having since driven several of the current X3 28i loaners with the turbo 4, I probably would not now choose the 35i as the current 28i has all the power I need. Came from a 2008 X5 35i which had the straight 6 and was "adequately" powered. The performance and handling improvement are amazing and I'm getting just about 25mpg.

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      01-06-2013, 10:21 PM   #38
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+1

Volvo XC60 goes 0-60 in 6.6

BMW X3 35i goes 0-60 in 5.5
Yes and no. The XC60 was released in the U.S. in 2010 with 280 hp (most of the magazines tested that version). However, in 2011 that was upped to 300...in 2012 the R-Design got a whopping 325hp and 354lbs ft of torque!

O-60 for our 2012 RD is 5.7 secs. 1/4 mile is about a tenth slower than the 35i, but 1 mph faster...essentially the same. The delivery of that power was what swayed me.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ar_first_test/

I'm still a fan of the X3 and BMWs in general - will definitely be on the test drive list again the next time around.

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      01-07-2013, 12:10 AM   #39
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Yes and no. The XC60 was released in the U.S. in 2010 with 280 hp (most of the magazines tested that version). However, in 2011 that was upped to 300...in 2012 the R-Design got a whopping 325hp and 354lbs ft of torque!

O-60 for our 2012 RD is 5.7 secs. 1/4 mile is about a tenth slower than the 35i, but 1 mph faster...essentially the same. The delivery of that power was what swayed me.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ar_first_test/

I'm still a fan of the X3 and BMWs in general - will definitely be on the test drive list again the next time around.
The article I got my number from says 6.6:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/22/2...-drive-review/
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      01-07-2013, 07:21 AM   #40
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Funny how magazine articles vary in their times, you would think they would try to test in standardized conditions.

Regardless of what the articles say, the XC60R feels noticeably slower than the X3 35i. Still quick but does not have the same pull, it's evident when driving the 2 cars. The transmission also doesn't do it any favors in comparison.
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      01-07-2013, 07:50 AM   #41
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I seriously looked at the XC60 t6 R but found the suspension too harsh... It may have been the 20" wheels.

Plus the car didn't feel quicker even with the hp advantage... Must have been the 6spd auto box in the volvo.

The Volvo's straight six sits perpendicular to the rest of the drivetrain.
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      01-07-2013, 01:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
The article I got my number from says 6.6:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/22/2...-drive-review/
I'll take 2 out of 3:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

Car and Driver also matched Motor Trend. The Autoblog numbers look to be closer to the old 281 hp model introduced in 2010....
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      01-07-2013, 01:41 PM   #43
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Quote:
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56.6k MSRP down to 52.6k after 1k rebate is where we are now. Debating lease or finance...these cars hold their value it seems but I just love the risk free care free lease life
My MSRP was 56,750 got it down to 51,250
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      01-07-2013, 01:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
I seriously looked at the XC60 t6 R but found the suspension too harsh... It may have been the 20" wheels.

Plus the car didn't feel quicker even with the hp advantage... Must have been the 6spd auto box in the volvo.

The Volvo's straight six sits perpendicular to the rest of the drivetrain.
Agreed - definitely harsher than we first realized which forced my hand with regard to the rear suspension swap after three months where I swapped out the stiffer R-Design rear springs and shocks for the "base" suspension items. We still have the quicker ratio RD steering and firmer front suspension...most of the rough ride was definitely in the rear (my wife got to listen to me micro analyzing the ride on every drive for those first three months). BMW just (run-flats not withstanding) does suspensions better than most...no doubt about it. Ideally, I would install the larger aftermarket sway bar from IPD in the Volvo now to make up for some lost roll control but (to be honest) as my wife's daily driver it just hasn't been a priority. As a side note, Volvo does offer an adjustable suspension (their 4C option), but - ridiculously - it is not available on the R-Design. It is uber rare even on the regular T6 though because I think dealers view it as a "high performance" option and if they order in a hi po car it is going to be an R-Design. Aggravating.

The perpendicular 6 of the Volvo brings up another point. The XC60 is biased to FRONT wheel drive as opposed to REAR wheel drive like the X3. Obviously, most here (including me) prefer the feel of RWD over FWD. 98% of the time, this is absolutely a non-issue in the Volvo. I don't feel a bunch of goofy torque steer or anything like that, BUT 2% of the time when you really leg it you get that "Oh, yeah this is FWD biased" reminder with torque steer and a pause before the torque transfers to the rear wheels. Generally a non-issue, but I won't pretend it doesn't happen.

Last edited by cblandin; 01-07-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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