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      11-14-2012, 11:02 PM   #23
Jan van Zyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg2step View Post
any thoughts on replacing 2 vs 4? on some AWD vehicles must replace 4 but XDrive is not symmetrical

could use some help here, i have not rotated at exactly 14,000 and have some serious wear on the fronts - backs are in good shape. I drive in sport mode and drive hard all the time
Did you rotate at all? If not-which tyres wore the fastest - front or rear?

I would put the 2 best tyres (remaining) in front - and 2 new tyres at rear.

When eventually replacing "original" fronts. - I would put brand new ones at the rear and the "previously" new ones to the front.

Thereafter try to rotate. @ 8000 - 10 000 km and note if better results achieved.

Regards.
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      11-14-2012, 11:05 PM   #24
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thank you - 14,000mi never rotated, both fronts worn on the outer edge, may be beyond rotation - i should have done it but I didn't.

so you are saying buy 2 new rears and move the rears to the front, then rotate them?

anyone else have advice on this? my X3 is going to want rear brakes soon - so hopefully can do them same time (computer says 1400 mi til rear brakes)

FYI I have a 35i in sport mode (chassis only) almost all city driving and i drive hard.
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      11-14-2012, 11:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg2step View Post
thank you - 14,000mi never rotated, both fronts worn on the outer edge, may be beyond rotation - i should have done it but I didn't.

so you are saying buy 2 new rears and move the rears to the front, then rotate them?

anyone else have advice on this? my X3 is going to want rear brakes soon - so hopefully can do them same time (computer says 1400 mi til rear brakes)

FYI I have a 35i in sport mode (chassis only) almost all city driving and i drive hard.
Yes. But while at it - ask for alignment check on all 4 wheels. Fronts in general tend to misalign more easily.
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      11-17-2012, 12:11 AM   #26
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I drove past my service center today so I stopped in and talked to a service adviser about tires. He agreed, buy 2 new rear, move existing rear to front, 4 wheel alignment, also said my fronts have a few thousand miles yet (don't do anything just yet...) and the left is a bit worse than the right .

i think the reason i haven't rotated more than anything, my X3 has been in for service exactly once - for an oil change at about 7000mi. was too soon to rotate and I haven't had cause to go back for service at all.
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      12-18-2013, 11:40 PM   #27
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According to the manual:

Quote:
Rotating wheels between axles:

The manufacturer of your vehicle advises against swapping wheels between the front and rear axles.
This can impair the handling characteristics.
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      12-22-2013, 10:02 AM   #28
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I always thought this was only the case for cars with staggered tire sizes.
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      12-22-2013, 07:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by fwmcb View Post
I always thought this was only the case for cars with staggered tire sizes.
No, it is for same size all around too. Rationale is that the wear patterns are different and rotating tires can compromise the optimal contact patch with the road, at worst causing insufficient stickyness with the road when needed (read: over/understeer) and at very least causing bad road feedback at the steering wheel.
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      12-27-2013, 11:44 AM   #30
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My advice: if the setup is not staggered, they should be rotated. Directional pattern issues only impact traction in the wet, if ever.
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      12-27-2013, 08:54 PM   #31
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No rotation issues if move front to back etc.
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      04-23-2014, 05:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
I plan on rotating my tires when I reinstall the summer rubber when the winter tires come off. I'll have to do a bit of research to see if I should rotate front to back and/or side to side.

On a related note... does anyone know the recommend wheel bolt torque setting?
I saw responses on the lugnut torque at n-m but not ft-lb's. I have a 35i with 19" tires all around same size. I recently had my winter tires taken off and the all seasons put back on. They torque'd the lugnuts to 100ft-lbs. seems a little high but is that acceptable? I'm surprised that piece of data isn't in the owner's manual. I also rotated the tires front to back because the outside edges on the front were worn and I wanted better tire's on the front. I had 21000 miles on the original tires and they look like they can go another 8000 miles or so. I was a little concerned that BMW recommends not rotating but the X3 seems to handle fine. At first after the winters were taken off the handling seemed super tight but that's because I was used to having 18" snow tires on for the winter and they aren't known for handling. I thought it might be from rotating the tires that the handling seemed weird.
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      04-23-2014, 10:50 PM   #33
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Thanks for the follow up Cadman.

I had exactly the same thought as you re: handling after the summer rubber went on.

... and I did end up rotating front to rear when I reinstalled the tires.

I hope to get some blizzaks next winter to replace the garbage Pirelli sotozero's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cadman50 View Post
I saw responses on the lugnut torque at n-m but not ft-lb's. I have a 35i with 19" tires all around same size. I recently had my winter tires taken off and the all seasons put back on. They torque'd the lugnuts to 100ft-lbs. seems a little high but is that acceptable? I'm surprised that piece of data isn't in the owner's manual. I also rotated the tires front to back because the outside edges on the front were worn and I wanted better tire's on the front. I had 21000 miles on the original tires and they look like they can go another 8000 miles or so. I was a little concerned that BMW recommends not rotating but the X3 seems to handle fine. At first after the winters were taken off the handling seemed super tight but that's because I was used to having 18" snow tires on for the winter and they aren't known for handling. I thought it might be from rotating the tires that the handling seemed weird.
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      04-24-2014, 12:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadman50 View Post
I saw responses on the lugnut torque at n-m but not ft-lb's. I have a 35i with 19" tires all around same size. I recently had my winter tires taken off and the all seasons put back on. They torque'd the lugnuts to 100ft-lbs. seems a little high but is that acceptable? I'm surprised that piece of data isn't in the owner's manual. I also rotated the tires front to back because the outside edges on the front were worn and I wanted better tire's on the front. I had 21000 miles on the original tires and they look like they can go another 8000 miles or so. I was a little concerned that BMW recommends not rotating but the X3 seems to handle fine. At first after the winters were taken off the handling seemed super tight but that's because I was used to having 18" snow tires on for the winter and they aren't known for handling. I thought it might be from rotating the tires that the handling seemed weird.
Recommended torque is 120Nm = 88.5lbs/ft...
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      04-24-2014, 04:16 AM   #35
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Can someone confirm this-
I have the standard UK fit 17" tyres Dunlop Sport Maxx.
When I changed from my Winter tyres back to the Dunlops my tyre fitter swapped front to back due to the front tyres wearing slight more on the outside edges.
Am I correct in think that the Dunlop Sport Maxx are directional and asymmetric? If so do you have to order the tyres as either nearside or offside? i.e. there are two versions depending on the side you fit them.

Is also looks difficult to source these tyres for the X3 in the UK. If I fit something else could it affect my trade in value with the dealer?
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      04-24-2014, 08:38 AM   #36
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Wouldnt this essentially be like rotating tires... I dont believe their dont rotate claim. If you buy only 2 new tires, whats the difference than rotating them. I think the reason BMW does it is because they want to sell you 4 new tires when 2 wear out, and will claim BS reasons why you need 4..

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He agreed, buy 2 new rear, move existing rear to front
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      04-24-2014, 08:42 AM   #37
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Get Nokian Haka R2s, got them last winter and they are awesome, more exp than Blizzaks but a better overall winter tire.

On non staggered cars I also rotate tires front to back when swapping summer to winter to summer tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
I hope to get some blizzaks next winter to replace the garbage Pirelli sotozero's.
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      04-24-2014, 11:37 AM   #38
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I've had both Hakka RSi and Blizzaks previously. I found that Blizzaks performed better as the tire wore. I did like the numerical wear indicators on the Hakka's.

No doubt both tires provided exceptional grip when new.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bagekko View Post
Get Nokian Haka R2s, got them last winter and they are awesome, more exp than Blizzaks but a better overall winter tire.

On non staggered cars I also rotate tires front to back when swapping summer to winter to summer tires.
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      04-24-2014, 11:39 AM   #39
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This the information I relied on.

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showpo...49&postcount=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan van Zyl View Post
Recommended torque is 120Nm = 88.5lbs/ft...
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      04-24-2014, 12:46 PM   #40
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120 Nm.
No, that is for the older BMW's with M12 bolts.
The newer cars with M14 bolts need 140Nm
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      04-24-2014, 12:48 PM   #41
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BMW do not recommend rotating the tires because of the high camber setting they use.
It can cause some handling problems for a while after you swop.
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      04-24-2014, 01:40 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagekko View Post
Get Nokian Haka R2s, got them last winter and they are awesome, more exp than Blizzaks but a better overall winter tire.

On non staggered cars I also rotate tires front to back when swapping summer to winter to summer tires.
BMW do not recommend rotating the tires because of the high camber setting they use.
It can cause some handling problems for a while after you swop.


I agree...I got the Haka R2's also and they certainly were great in the snow. Not sure if I will rotate them when I put them on next winter because they look like they are all wearing about the same and no outside wear on the front this time. I had my x3 aligned on all 4 wheels just after I had them put on. So there may be no reason to rotate them.
Does the high camber translate to outer edge wear on the fronts? That's what I've heard. problems for a while after rotating? what kind of problems? and for how long? I don't seem to be having any issues so far except getting used to the new 'handling' after taking off my snow tires.
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      04-24-2014, 01:45 PM   #43
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No, that is for the older BMW's with M12 bolts.
The newer cars with M14 bolts need 140Nm
Recommended torque is 120Nm = 88.5lbs/ft...

I just called 2 dealers. one said that 100 ft-lbs is too tight. the other said it was perfectly acceptable and that you'd have to tighten them a lot more to strip the threads. So the previous suggestion that 80-100 ft-lbs seems reasonable. If I was doing it myself I would have used 90. But since the tire dealer I purchased my snow tires from changed them over to summers with 100 ft-lbs I'm not overly concerned now. But I will tell them only to torque to 90 next time.
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      04-24-2014, 01:59 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadman50 View Post
Recommended torque is 120Nm = 88.5lbs/ft...

I just called 2 dealers. one said that 100 ft-lbs is too tight. the other said it was perfectly acceptable and that you'd have to tighten them a lot more to strip the threads. So the previous suggestion that 80-100 ft-lbs seems reasonable. If I was doing it myself I would have used 90. But since the tire dealer I purchased my snow tires from changed them over to summers with 100 ft-lbs I'm not overly concerned now. But I will tell them only to torque to 90 next time.

Call the dealers back and tell them to ask the workshop to look it up in ISTA (The official BMW workshop system)

The below capture is directly from ISTA, its 140NM for all M14 wheel bolt cars, which are just about all the modern BMW models


They are endangering lives by quoting M12 torques for M14 equipped cars.
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