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XBimmers | BMW X3 Forum > BMW X3 Forums | F25 (2011 - Current) > Second Generation BMW X3 General Forum » 2012 X3 xDrive20i and xDrive35d Adds Turbo 4-cyl N20 and 6-cyl Diesel

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      08-05-2011, 12:43 PM   #23
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I will not buy another diesel vehicle until diesel prices are cheaper than premium gas.

I had a 2011 X5d for 8 months before I sold it. Gas mileage was barely better than my friends X5 35i. Also got tried of paying over $80 to fill up the tank.
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      08-05-2011, 12:49 PM   #24
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At least this is a positive step forward. Still need the 28i version announced/released. Jason says "as of now..." Could we still see something coming this year???

Also, any word on the mpg's on these new engines?
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      08-05-2011, 12:57 PM   #25
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So what are the 0-60 specs and fuel consumption of the 20i?
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      08-05-2011, 12:57 PM   #26
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That's not how BMW has been doing things lately though. Even before the N20, consider the 3.0L N52 which was offered with anywhere from about 215hp to 265hp.

And as south pointed out, this is not the first occurence of the N20B20 with 184hp. It was first announced for the X1 xDrive20i a few months back, and then more recently the Z4 and 5 series 20i models. Soon all 20i BMW models will use the N20 engine at this power level (including the F20/F21 120i and F30 320i, all of which will debut next March in Geneva).

It is true BMW could instead use a higher powered version of their new longitudinal 1.6L N18B16 (as seen in the 116i and 118i) to achieve 184hp instead, yes. However, probably that would mean a little less torque at lower RPM, and perhaps not quite as efficient in heavier vehicles like an X3 and 5 series either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoyuji View Post
if both are 1994cc displacement, with twinpower turbo, wouldn't bmw offer the higher end 240ish hp variant across the brand based on N20 platform?
This doesn't sounds not logical....
Two similar engine, but hp per liter are totally different.
241hp/2.0L = 120.5hp per liter
184hp/2.0L = 92hp per liter.

if using the same ratio of the 241hp.
it seems that the displacement of this 181hp/ 180lb-ft engine is the same as the one powering the Mini Cooper S/ Countryman S.
181hp/1.6L = 113hp per liter
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      08-05-2011, 12:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoyuji View Post
if both are 1994cc displacement, with twinpower turbo, wouldn't bmw offer the higher end 240ish hp variant across the brand based on N20 platform?
This doesn't sounds not logical....
Two similar engine, but hp per liter are totally different.
241hp/2.0L = 120.5hp per liter
184hp/2.0L = 92hp per liter.

if using the same ratio of the 241hp.
it seems that the displacement of this 181hp/ 180lb-ft engine is the same as the one powering the Mini Cooper S/ Countryman S.
181hp/1.6L = 113hp per liter
They will offer an X3 28i with the 240hp N20 at some point. It's just BMW's usual approach of not offering a new engine in all models simultaneously.

The 184hp version is based on the same engine but detuned intentionally to offer models at a cheaper price. For example, the base price for a Z4 20i is EUR 7k less than for the Z4 28i in Germany, and a 520i is 5k less than a 528i.

Again, the 184hp variant of the N20 is irrelevant for the US at the moment. The 240hp version (28i) will be introduced across the brand, some have it already (e.g. Z4, 5-series), some will have it later (e.g. X3).


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      08-05-2011, 12:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
It's true, 2012 X3 production ends March 2012. It shows on the production schedule for all US models.
Thanks Jason. I was pretty sure I remembered reading that too, but I was trying to find a link to confirm. I'll take your word for it.
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      08-05-2011, 01:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inamik75 View Post
So what are the 0-60 specs and fuel consumption of the 20i?
It does 0-62 mpg in 8.3 seconds (auto 8.6) and averages 7.9l/100km based on EU cycle (auto 7.5l).


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      08-05-2011, 01:01 PM   #30
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I agree that the US will not get the 20i, but its the same N20 engine, maybe different turbos? the gas mileage would be similar (depending on how agressive you drive, so good when the wife drives it and bad when I take it!)

The US should get the 35D though, and I would imagine BMW is in the process of clearing this engine for sale in the US as it would replace the 35D in the current 3 series and X5, along with being a new 5 series engine, kind of like the 35i engine is used in so many platforms, the 35D would be the Diesel standard (and only offering) in the US, question is WHEN! and hopefully its not more than $4K price hike over the 35i (when looking at the current 35Ds it shouldn't be).
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      08-05-2011, 01:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
I will not buy another diesel vehicle until diesel prices are cheaper than premium gas.

I had a 2011 X5d for 8 months before I sold it. Gas mileage was barely better than my friends X5 35i. Also got tried of paying over $80 to fill up the tank.
well currently in the Chicago suburbs Premium is $4.10 - $4.30 and Diesel has been at $3.90-$4.00 for the last 4 months.

but prices change so much that at times Diesel is $0.40 cheaper and at other times its $0.25 higher... In the long run I bet it is pretty much the same as premium.
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      08-05-2011, 01:13 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
I agree that the US will not get the 20i, but its the same N20 engine, maybe different turbos? the gas mileage would be similar (depending on how agressive you drive, so good when the wife drives it and bad when I take it!)
Not sure the mileage would be too similar. For example, what was the E90 325i rated MPG vs. the E90 330i MPG, back in 2005/2006 when they were available here? Recall that they both used a 3.0L N52, one at 215hp, the other at 255hp.
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      08-05-2011, 01:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Not sure the mileage would be too similar. For example, what was the E90 325i rated MPG vs. the E90 330i MPG, back in 2005/2006 when they were available here? Recall that they both used a 3.0L N52, one at 215hp, the other at 255hp.
He's right regarding the EU cycle at least:
F10 520i: 7.0l per 100km (avg)
F10 528i: 7.1l per 100km (avg)

I agree that real world consumption might be a different story, though.


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      08-05-2011, 01:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoyuji View Post
Hold on....
the new X3 xDrive20i 2 liter turbo charge N20, only developing 135 kW/184 hp ?

This doesn't match the N20 engine used on Canada's spec X1 xDrive28i 258lb-ft/241hp....
Something wrong?
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      08-05-2011, 01:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
well currently in the Chicago suburbs Premium is $4.10 - $4.30 and Diesel has been at $3.90-$4.00 for the last 4 months.

but prices change so much that at times Diesel is $0.40 cheaper and at other times its $0.25 higher... In the long run I bet it is pretty much the same as premium.
When I owned the vehicle I never paid less than $4.00/gallon. It was very frustrating to not see the mileage overcome the higher price of diesel.

Diesels make more sense in europe, as diesel is less than petrol.

Oh and having to use an adapter sometimes to fill up was a huge pain in the ass. Not to mention how dirty the diesel pumps are. It is not all positives when talking about diesel.
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      08-05-2011, 01:48 PM   #36
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Bull...

I have been following the transition to N20 for NA closely...waiting for it before purchasing ours. And if they would release a diesel that would push 40mpg I would be very interested. But seriously getting frustrated with the way BMW does things. This would be my first BMW and it is trying with how they do business. Agree with the thought that the X3 is produced in the US, so we should have full access to whatever the heck they make. Especially if I am willing to go to SC and pick it up.
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      08-05-2011, 02:13 PM   #37
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Good, and bad news...

They had better hurry up and bring the High Output version of the 2.0L to the US or they are just wasting time. This x-car is heavy, no reason to stuff a cork in the programming. Even Audi needs to uncork their 2.0L.
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      08-05-2011, 02:15 PM   #38
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Exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacb1301 View Post
I have been following the transition to N20 for NA closely...waiting for it before purchasing ours. And if they would release a diesel that would push 40mpg I would be very interested. But seriously getting frustrated with the way BMW does things. This would be my first BMW and it is trying with how they do business. Agree with the thought that the X3 is produced in the US, so we should have full access to whatever the heck they make. Especially if I am willing to go to SC and pick it up.
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      08-05-2011, 02:39 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
I will not buy another diesel vehicle until diesel prices are cheaper than premium gas.

I had a 2011 X5d for 8 months before I sold it. Gas mileage was barely better than my friends X5 35i. Also got tried of paying over $80 to fill up the tank.
Your research before buying the car should have told you that. The 35d is the only X5 currently with the old 6spd transmission while the 35 and 50's have the 8spd. The 35i is 23hwy while the 35d is 26hwy - what were you expecting?
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      08-05-2011, 03:28 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
I will not buy another diesel vehicle until diesel prices are cheaper than premium gas.

I had a 2011 X5d for 8 months before I sold it. Gas mileage was barely better than my friends X5 35i. Also got tried of paying over $80 to fill up the tank.
Sorry folks but $80 to fill up a x5 that's a dream here in the Uk! Try more like $160. Its just cost me £80 to fill up my x3 2.0d. Not sure about other European countries but i'm sure most of us pay a premium for diesel than unleaded (4p per litre in the uk due to extra duty/tax).

Until your petrol ('gas') prices start heading severely northwards then I think you'll just have to make do with the 2.8 and 3.5i's. I think I'd be quite happy with that compromise!!
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      08-05-2011, 03:48 PM   #41
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agreed. I want diesel in USA.. 4 or 6..

Quote:
Originally Posted by maswastage View Post
I so want that 313 bhp diesel in a lightweight 135d. Can you imagine the beastly performance? 0-60 in 4.7 seconds, while still returning 40 mpg highway.
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      08-05-2011, 03:50 PM   #42
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2012 Audi Q5 will come with 313 hp diesel..
and most likely USA...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
screw you BMW! Not coming to the US!

well I will show my feeling by not buying a X3 right now, BMW thinks the current 28i and 35i will continue to sell out, well you might be shooting yourself in the foot! When that is all that is available and is the best offered by any company it works, but there will be some pretty tough compeition coming in 2012/2013 and BMW better bring the new N20 and 35d here to combat it or they will lose sales!

If either the N20 (with 240 HP) or 35D engine were here I would buy them, I would go to a dealer today to put my order in for a 2012 model, but since they aren't I will hold off for another year to see what BMW and other companies offer for 2013 models

I would suggest others hold off as well (unless you need a car now) because there might be a chance that the US sees both engines in April 2012 as possible 2013 models because production of the current 28i and 35i shows to be stopping in March 2012, now why would that be?
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      08-05-2011, 04:16 PM   #43
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The N20 with the 240+ HP will be as fast or faster than the 3.0 according to everything BMW has written so far. MPG will probably go 21-22 City and 28-30 Hwy. I won't buy until we get the N20 or diesel as well. They are not going to release a 184 HP N20 in the US, they are not that stupid.
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      08-05-2011, 04:45 PM   #44
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In Europe, I wonder where the 184hp xdrive 20i will be positioned, above or below the xdrive 20d.
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