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      06-19-2011, 11:21 AM   #67
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The seal lines are probably done by a robot. If that's the case, the nationality of the worker is not the issue, the vehicle's production line is. It should be fixed; this is not up to BMW standards. I hope BMW is continuously improving the process and can address this issue soon.
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      06-19-2011, 11:36 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonagon View Post
The seal lines are probably done by a robot. If that's the case, the nationality of the worker is not the issue, the vehicle's production line is. It should be fixed; this is not up to BMW standards. I hope BMW is continuously improving the process and can address this issue soon.
Well one can say I have a one of a kind car with the fingerprint of the guy who soothed the seal line at the ends with his fingers..
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      06-19-2011, 01:09 PM   #69
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A little more clarity

Those are not welds but sealant to increase sound deadening.

American workers are not the problem, American car companies are. Remember that Honda, Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota all produce vehicles successfully in US with high levels of reliability, fit and finish. The issue is how old the plant is, including the manufacturing technology vs the build process needed for the vehicle. Many US Big 3 plants were Stone Age in their design and the equipment workers had to use. It's a cyclical thing, but it requires smart management and smart timely investment to produce good vehicles.

If you're a global car company the goal is to provide high levels of consistency at all your plants, wherever they are. Having worked as a "partner" of BMW in the past I'm sure that what you're looking at is one end of the tolerance scale, and not the good end.

Thirdly criticism of the US economy is misplaced. When the US does well every country around to globe rides on its shirt-tails and everyone benefits but says nothing and contributes nothing. But when the US economy fails the rest of the world does nothing but complain.

Europe can't even take care of itself economically or secure it's own borders without help. Will the ECB step up to the plate and bail out Greece? And NATO is essentially US bankrolled. And I don't see a big contribution to either NATO or the global economy from Norway. Maybe European countries should stop taking the US's global leadership for granted and start stepping up to the plate to make a contribution.

And btw I carry a British passport.
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      06-19-2011, 01:23 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
Those are not welds but sealant to increase sound deadening.

American workers are not the problem, American car companies are. Remember that Honda, Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota all produce vehicles successfully in US with high levels of reliability, fit and finish. The issue is how old the plant is, including the manufacturing technology vs the build process needed for the vehicle. Many US Big 3 plants were Stone Age in their design and the equipment workers had to use. It's a cyclical thing, but it requires smart management and smart timely investment to produce good vehicles.

If you're a global car company the goal is to provide high levels of consistency at all your plants, wherever they are. Having worked as a "partner" of BMW in the past I'm sure that what you're looking at is one end of the tolerance scale, and not the good end.

Thirdly criticism of the US economy is misplaced. When the US does well every country around to globe rides on its shirt-tails and everyone benefits but says nothing and contributes nothing. But when the US economy fails the rest of the world does nothing but complain.

Europe can't even take care of itself economically or secure it's own borders without help. Will the ECB step up to the plate and bail out Greece? And NATO is essentially US bankrolled. And I don't see a big contribution to either NATO or the global economy from Norway. Maybe European countries should stop taking the US's global leadership for granted and start stepping up to the plate to make a contribution.

And btw I carry a British passport.
Partly agree on the manufacturing issue.
Don't agree on the economic issue, the US has always paid their partly imperialistic wars with the rest of the world..

Weapons of mass destruction in iraq duh...and Afghanistan .. Yeah , if total chaos is the goal.. Then the US will succeed.. Or do you really know why the US is at war now?

Obama criticizes china for violating human rights and in the same time have prisoners in Guantanamo for years without prosecution.. Democrazy yes..

Just my 2 cents...

Last edited by X3andZ4owner; 06-19-2011 at 02:38 PM.
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      06-19-2011, 01:28 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3andZ4owner View Post
Just my 2 cents...
That's 10 cents now!

This is car forum so half of this is not to mention dull

It's easy to knock whoever is at the top of the world's pecking order for its mistakes. America now, China soon
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      06-19-2011, 02:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by sfax View Post
That's 10 cents now!

This is car forum so half of this is not to mention dull

It's easy to knock whoever is at the top of the world's pecking order for its mistakes. America now, China soon
Yes that was off topic, nice spin off ..

I merely dared to question if the US worker put as much soul in their work as the German... Won't happen again , next I'll have a SWAT team banging down my door... Charging me for anti-American activity..

Guys, the car is great, I have locked the trunk and I can't see the seams, problem solved ...
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      06-19-2011, 03:44 PM   #73
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Make sure you never open it again! :-D
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      06-19-2011, 04:10 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonagon View Post
The seal lines are probably done by a robot. If that's the case, the nationality of the worker is not the issue, the vehicle's production line is. It should be fixed; this is not up to BMW standards. I hope BMW is continuously improving the process and can address this issue soon.

The sealant are applied by robots, they are not normally touched by humans in between welding & painting of the shell.
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      06-19-2011, 04:23 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3andZ4owner View Post
Yes that was off topic, nice spin off ..

I merely dared to question if the US worker put as much soul in their work as the German... Won't happen again , next I'll have a SWAT team banging down my door... Charging me for anti-American activity..

Guys, the car is great, I have locked the trunk and I can't see the seams, problem solved ...
We don't send SWAT teams overseas. Us warmongering Americans have other Teams for that.
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      06-19-2011, 04:49 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RxCritical View Post
We don't send SWAT teams overseas. Us warmongering Americans have other Teams for that.
Ok, off topic again, but I can't resist

Yes I recall that the SEALs recently took care of one guy no one had ever seen and burried him at sea according to desert Islamic traditions.. And wasn't this at the same time a guy with a funny hairdo questioned where the Us president was born? Who by the way still hasn't been able to show an original birth certificate only PDF scans... Why is this so difficult?

Only details , but what the heck, who cares about details anymore ?

Just my 2 cents again...

Last edited by X3andZ4owner; 06-19-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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      06-19-2011, 06:04 PM   #77
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Let's keep politics out of this. Please.
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      06-19-2011, 08:33 PM   #78
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Yes, I can confirm that the caulk is applied by robot after seeing this in some BMW production videos (I wish I could remember where I saw that). Where the caulk is straight, it's way straighter and more uniform than a human could do it, and where it's back-filled, it's done in a repeatable pattern no human could do. Go back to the picture I posted on page 1 of my Z4's caulk, and you can see a back-fill pattern very clearly.
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      06-19-2011, 08:55 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
Yes, I can confirm that the caulk is applied by robot after seeing this in some BMW production videos (I wish I could remember where I saw that). Where the caulk is straight, it's way straighter and more uniform than a human could do it, and where it's back-filled, it's done in a repeatable pattern no human could do. Go back to the picture I posted on page 1 of my Z4's caulk, and you can see a back-fill pattern very clearly.
In the pics that X3andZ4owner posted, especially pic no. 4, it SURE looks like there was some human intervention in the form or somebody sticking their finger in the sealant. I've looked at the sealant line on my Feb. production X3 an there is no similar evidence of somebody sticking their fingers in where they didn't belong. The sealant lines are smooth and there are no peaks visible. It seems that his car is probably not typical of most X3s so he should have a very good case to get something done to correct it.

Who knows what actually happened. Maybe the robot sealing device was a little low on pressure or running out of sealant, so some person decided to "smooth" the sealant over a few gaps. It might be a good idea to compare the car side by side with others at the same dealership.
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      06-19-2011, 11:43 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
In the pics that X3andZ4owner posted, especially pic no. 4, it SURE looks like there was some human intervention in the form or somebody sticking their finger in the sealant. I've looked at the sealant line on my Feb. production X3 an there is no similar evidence of somebody sticking their fingers in where they didn't belong. The sealant lines are smooth and there are no peaks visible. It seems that his car is probably not typical of most X3s so he should have a very good case to get something done to correct it.

Who knows what actually happened. Maybe the robot sealing device was a little low on pressure or running out of sealant, so some person decided to "smooth" the sealant over a few gaps. It might be a good idea to compare the car side by side with others at the same dealership.
For QC purpose they take samples of unpainted shells. Probably it was one of them & the inspector thought the robot applied too much (or too little) sealant.
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      06-20-2011, 01:19 AM   #81
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Decided to check the sealant in the trunk area after seeing this thread and it's smooth as butter, no jagged peaks at all. TBH even if the car did have jagged sealant I could care less. The OP's main argument is that if lapses in QC are present in areas that aren't immediately visible it could also mean that there's cause for concern in other non visible areas. To me this seems like a "what if" statement, statements like these are irrelevant because no one knows what the outcome may be; I mean what if the X3 that the OP has turns out to be a lemon, it dies before the break in period is even over and what if it turns out to be the greatest car he ever has, it could have the longest longevity of any car he's ever owned or will own.

While no one knows if the supposed lack of QC will be the death of our cars, what is known is that many of us on these forums including the OP has already purchased their X3. At this point there's not much more that any of us can do because all the complaining one can muster out won't do them any good if their car really does dies prematurely. Until a actual problem arises its trivial at best to dwell on what could happen and what rough sealant may indicate in terms of overall QC of the X3.

This thread has already strayed far enough as somehow a discussion about rough sealant has gone on to include politics, a history lesson, and the generalization of a whole country's work ethics. Bury this thread already, no need for a 5th page.
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      06-20-2011, 08:35 AM   #82
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I'm disappointed about BMW's quality of manufacturing just as satisfied with its driving and control. No matter whatever reason or excuse, I cannot understand a luxury brand like BMW produces car with such low standard of quality. Even many cars twice cheaper than BMW have very high quality.
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      06-20-2011, 08:44 AM   #83
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Data points

If BMW has poor manufacturing quality would you care to post the statistical data that proves it's worse than other manufacturers? I would love to see your data on this.
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      06-20-2011, 08:49 AM   #84
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Quote:
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I'm disappointed about BMW's quality of manufacturing just as satisfied with its driving and control. No matter whatever reason or excuse, I cannot understand a luxury brand like BMW produces car with such low standard of quality. Even many cars twice cheaper than BMW have very high quality.
This doesn't match my experience at all. I owned a VW before which I thought was pretty good build quality but BMW is better again. Shut the door and you can tell from the noise it makes. So much better than the noise on my previous VW. Push down on the roof and it's hard and resists. VW roof was so soft it felt like you could dent it.
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      06-20-2011, 08:53 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azhar View Post
I'm disappointed about BMW's quality of manufacturing just as satisfied with its driving and control. No matter whatever reason or excuse, I cannot understand a luxury brand like BMW produces car with such low standard of quality. Even many cars twice cheaper than BMW have very high quality.
Really......
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      06-20-2011, 08:55 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfax View Post
This doesn't match my experience at all. I owned a VW before which I thought was pretty good build quality but BMW is better again. Shut the door and you can tell from the noise it makes. So much better than the noise on my previous VW. Push down on the roof and it's hard and resists. VW roof was so soft it felt like you could dent it.
Try pushing the hood of the CR-V then......
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      06-20-2011, 09:47 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azhar View Post
I'm disappointed about BMW's quality of manufacturing just as satisfied with its driving and control. No matter whatever reason or excuse, I cannot understand a luxury brand like BMW produces car with such low standard of quality. Even many cars twice cheaper than BMW have very high quality.
I don't agree at all, maybe you could prove your point?
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      06-20-2011, 09:59 AM   #88
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I have to say this is getting out of hand. The finish of the caulk on the OP's car seems to have been particularly poorly finished. It isn't right but it's not a complete disaster either, yes BMW should do better and pointing this out is no bad thing. But the X3 is not a heap of junk either.
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