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      06-18-2011, 05:32 PM   #23
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Wait, what?? You buy a 440,000 kroner car and YOUR GOVERNMENT taxes you another 546,000 kroner?????
Dang I'm glad we have some common sense here. You could have bought TWO X3's and still had change left!!!!
If our government tried to propose a 124% tax on vehicles, me thinks that particular government would not last very long.
But that's just here in the United States, what do we know about taxes.
We have free healthcare and government financed pension.. for now at least..
I don't know how much money there will be left in the government oil fund after financing some of the US wars..

And if you let Obama continue as president you too will have some heavy taxes in the future ... who will otherwise pay for the fun that the USA invites the world to? Did you know that the USA is technically broke...? Just my 2 cents... The car is great BTW.

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      06-18-2011, 05:38 PM   #24
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Ask you again the question that someone else asked before: Are american cars know for their good quality?

As I wrote before, otherwise the car is great except for the finish and the details. You guys criticizing don't seem to be used to quality?

Home at your place is it tidy just because you hide the shit under the carpet?

I put a lot in the details , its in the details one can find what the quality of the whole is.
So really, if you put a lot in the details as you say, all you had to do to find this was open the boot. It's not really hidden. I have a Hyundai Sonata produced in Alabama, USA. It has caulk seams in the boot area that look much better than your pictures. Does that mean it's a better car? The exact same caulk seams in my X3 look far better than your pictures show. Does that mean my X3 is built far better than yours? Or maybe I just got lucky and had a worker with more soul in his work.
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      06-18-2011, 05:41 PM   #25
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We have free healthcare and government financed pension.. for now at least..
I don't know how much money there will be left in the government oil fund after financing some of the US wars..

And if you let Obama continue as president you too will have some heavy taxes in the future ... who will otherwise pay for the fun that the USA invites the world to? Did you know that the USA is technically broke...? Just my 2 cents... The car is great BTW.
Greece has free healthcare and a government financed pension also. How is that working out for them? You have a valid point on Obama. Hopefully we can fix that issue next year. I'm glad you are enjoying your car.
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      06-18-2011, 05:42 PM   #26
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So really, if you put a lot in the details as you say, all you had to do to find this was open the boot. It's not really hidden. I have a Hyundai Sonata produced in Alabama, USA. It has caulk seams in the boot area that look much better than your pictures. Does that mean it's a better car? The exact same caulk seams in my X3 look far better than your pictures show. Does that mean my X3 is built far better than yours? Or maybe I just got lucky and had a worker with more soul in his work.
So you compare a BMW with an Hyundai? Maybe I was just unlucky? The BMW salesman got a bit pale when i showed him the seams.. maybe its just more visible on a white car than on a black?
Maybe you got a german worker working in the USA doing your seams..

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      06-18-2011, 05:43 PM   #27
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So you compare a BMW with an Hyundai.. so cute..
They both have caulk seams.
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      06-18-2011, 05:49 PM   #28
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Greece has free healthcare and a government financed pension also. How is that working out for them? You have a valid point on Obama. Hopefully we can fix that issue next year. I'm glad you are enjoying your car.
Well, in Greece people can retire when they are 40 something.. in Norway when they are 65..
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      06-18-2011, 05:51 PM   #29
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So you compare a BMW with an Hyundai? Maybe I was just unlucky? The BMW salesman got a bit pale when i showed him the seams.. maybe its just more visible on a white car than on a black?
Maybe you got a german worker working in the USA doing your seams..
Nice stealth Ninja edit.
It's certainly possible yours was not the norm. Like I said my seams look lots better than your pictures. I certainly understand your sentiment on getting a quality product. Maybe the dealer can trim the caulk up some and make it look better.
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      06-18-2011, 05:54 PM   #30
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Well, in Greece people can retire when they are 40 something.. in Norway when they are 65..
Sounds like you Northern Europeans are getting the shaft!
Nice transatlantic chat. And we are boosting our post count!
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      06-18-2011, 06:01 PM   #31
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Seems to me that the american worker don't put their soul in their work the same way as the german worker.



I state that quality should not only be skin deep.. but also on the places you don't see...
Every real problem I've had with my X3 (and I've had some serious problems) was a result of poor quality control of German made component assemblies imported to the US for installation; none were due to the assembly of the vehicle.

BTW, the latest npr news releases have been bemoaning the fact that many “German” auto production lines are now staffed by up to 50% non-German “foreign” workers. So much for superior "German" production line skill.

Also, you may have heard that Norway's "THINK" electric car company (Aurskog, Norway) (if it survives) is planning on producing its car in the US, not Norway. Hopefully they will bring in a top notch Norwegian caulk line inspector.

As far as skin-deep quality, I totally agree and submit that BMW is putting its Euros into the places you don't see like engine internal components (where it really matters) instead of caulk line cosmetics, which from an engineering point of view are irrelevant as long as the seam is well sealed.

I'm not defending BMW as a company, only pointing out the realities of any mass-produced product. In today's global economy it's up to the consumer to do his/her homework. If caulk line cosmetics are important to you, that's perfectly fine, but if so, you should inspect the caulk lines on the demo before ordering a vehicle that does not meet your expectations.

Each of us has and is entitled to his/her own priorities. I'd rather see BMW build 3 liter engines that make 306 (European) HP and improve fuel economy 13% over their last generation of engines. You may prefer that they hire unemployed Art Majors to man the caulking guns. So be it.

I may be considered a pessimist, but IMHO to expect perfection (in every detail) today in any mass-produced product is simply being naive. However, after due consideration of all of the arguments presented here, I've moved "caulk line smoothness" from #927 to # 920 on my priority list.

P.S. I'm truly sorry that your government essentially doubles the price of a new BMW. We are fortunate that in the US our taxation has not reached these extremes, but we are headed that way.
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      06-18-2011, 06:12 PM   #32
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Every real problem I've had with my X3 (and I've had some serious problems) was a result of poor quality control of German made component assemblies imported to the US for installation; none were due to the assembly of the vehicle.

BTW, the latest npr news releases have been bemoaning the fact that many “German” auto production lines are now staffed by up to 50% non-German “foreign” workers. So much for superior "German" production line skill.

Also, you may have heard that Norway's "THINK" electric car company (Aurskog, Norway) (if it survives) is planning on producing its car in the US, not Norway. Hopefully they will bring in a top notch Norwegian caulk line inspector.

As far as skin-deep quality, I totally agree and submit that BMW is putting its Euros into the places you don't see like engine internal components (where it really matters) instead of caulk line cosmetics, which from an engineering point of view are irrelevant as long as the seam is well sealed.

I'm not defending BMW as a company, only pointing out the realities of any mass-produced product. In today's global economy it's up to the consumer to do his/her homework. If caulk line cosmetics are important to you, that's perfectly fine, but if so, you should inspect the caulk lines on the demo before ordering a vehicle that does not meet your expectations.

Each of us has and is entitled to his/her own priorities. I'd rather see BMW build 3 liter engines that make 306 (European) HP and improve fuel economy 13% over their last generation of engines. You may prefer that they hire unemployed Art Majors to man the caulking guns. So be it.

I may be considered a pessimist, but IMHO to expect perfection (in every detail) today in any mass-produced product is simply being naive. However, after due consideration of all of the arguments presented here, I've moved "caulk line smoothness" from #927 to # 920 on my priority list.

P.S. I'm truly sorry that your government essentially doubles the price of a new BMW. We are fortunate that in the US our taxation has not reached these extremes, but we are headed that way.


Your right in some things.But these seam things on the picture are very visible, I did not notice them on other cars, this was the first thing I saw when I opened the trunk.. They are unsymmetrical and uneven , a poor work basically..

As for the manufacturing country quality, there are differences in production quality depending where the products are manufactured. Quality control cant sort out all of the bad apples and I thinks as for what I have heard and experienced that there are more bad apples in the US production then in the German production..

As for Think-car disaster car is only a decoy for the Norwegian government so they can say the finance nonpoluting car manufacturing.. the car is a joke, they don't even dare to crash test it because they believe it will come out as a disaster..
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      06-18-2011, 06:20 PM   #33
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In Norway even without government tax the basic X3 Xdrive35i is 440 000 Norwegian kroner = 79 811.16 U.S. dollars...
Since the Norwegian government is clearly making much more income on the sale of a X3 then BMW is, it seems (bad pun intended) to me that you should hold them responsible for the poor seams.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I love Norway - no derogation intended.

Last edited by Lotus7; 06-18-2011 at 06:27 PM.
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      06-18-2011, 06:31 PM   #34
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Since the Norwegian government is clearly making much more income on the sale of a X3 then BMW is, it seems (bad pun intended) to me that you should hold then responsible for the poor seams.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I love Norway - no derogation intended.
The seam is not a big thing but it draws down the overall impression.. I understand you don't care about details as far as the engine and the outside looks good.. god for you, I would not employ you to my team...

Just to quote your own american author,William Feather:

"Beware of the person who can't be bothered by details."

And to quote the American businessman,Sanford I. Weill

"Details create the big picture."
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      06-18-2011, 06:32 PM   #35
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Since the Norwegian government is clearly making much more income on the sale of a X3 then BMW is, it seems (bad pun intended) to me that you should hold them responsible for the poor seams.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I love Norway - no derogation intended.
You have got to admit, that is some outlandishly crazy taxes on a car. That same amount of money in US dollars would get you a nice new Ferrari. (well close anyway). We had a revolution over less taxes.
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      06-18-2011, 06:37 PM   #36
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You have got to admit, that is some outlandishly crazy taxes on a car. That same amount of money in US dollars would get you a nice new Ferrari. (well close anyway). We had a revolution over less taxes.


A friend just bought an used Ferrari F430, he paid 1 800 000 Norwegian kroner = 326 500.2 U.S. dollars for it, yes its crazy..
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      06-18-2011, 06:42 PM   #37
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The seam is not a big thing but it draws down the overall impression.. I understand you don't care about details as far as the engine and the outside looks good.. god for you, I would not employ you to my team...

Just to quote your own american author,William Feather:

"Beware of the person who can't be bothered by details."

And to quote the American businessman,Sanford I. Weill

"Details create the big picture."
For the price you paid for the car after government taxes, a more appropriate quote would be...
"There's a sucker born every minute"
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      06-18-2011, 06:45 PM   #38
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Those are not welds. What you're looking at is the bead of body panel caulk used to fill any seams in the spot welded body. Looks perfectly normal to me. It is meant to be applied liberally with only a minimal attempt to neaten it up.

If you touch/tap the caulk, you will find that it's not hard like a weld would be, but rather, has a rubber/plastic/wax feel.
Exactly, I'd be impressed with the person who made finger marks in a fresh weld!

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I clean inside the doors on my cars, you do see these areas, it's not a huge deal but it should be better finished. It's not ther finish you expect from a German marque.
Every wash (hand only of course) I dry the inside of all doors and hatches, etc. This keeps them pretty clean and keeps water from dripping for hours after I've towelled the car dry... but I'm not fanatical about it. If the X3 were over $100k U.S. then perhaps this would be a complaint, but you should just get Zen with it.

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First, you get what you pay for.

Any vehicle from a lowly Tata to a Bugatti Veyron is built to a budget and has compromises in how that budget is allocated. Personally, I'd rather see resources spent on high mechanical tolerances on things like camshaft lobe profiles and turbocharger bearings than worrying about the smoothness of sealant caulk lines that are not visible on a closed car.

The X3 is a vehicle that is meant to be driven by people who are interested in something more than just basic transportation to go from one place to another. It is not an art object to be put on a pedestal and polished in places that no one but the owner will ever care about. Of course, that's just my personal opinion and is just that. You may be interested in polishing surfaces that rarely see the light of day. To each his/her own.

Everyone has his/her own priorities when it comes to how to spend your Euros, or Dollars in the case of the US-built X3. Sealant caulk line smoothness is approximately number 927 on my priority list.
True that. I noticed immediately on the first test drive that the new X3 does not have chrome plated door-latch-catcher-thingies... while every other BMW I've owned does. But I still placed an order.... the few dollars they save there adds up, and maybe allows them to hold to the stringent specs elsewhere without raising the cost.

I haven't had the X3 on a lift yet, but used to love looking at the 3 Series from underneath - you'll be amazed how over-engineered they are in "places you don't see".
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      06-18-2011, 06:49 PM   #39
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A friend just bought an used Ferrari F430, he paid 1 800 000 Norwegian kroner = 326 500.2 U.S. dollars for it, yes its crazy..
And everyone in Norway think those taxes are OK??
How do working class individuals afford a car?? Any car?
How much are your income taxes percentage wise??
Are other consumable items taxed the same?
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      06-18-2011, 06:54 PM   #40
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For the price you paid for the car after government taxes, a more appropriate quote would be...
"There'sva sucker born every minute"
P.T. Barnum
I needed a car so I bought one

You have to pay the price they sell them for..?
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      06-18-2011, 06:59 PM   #41
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And everyone in Norway think those taxes are OK??
How do working class individuals afford a car?? Any car?
How much are your income taxes percentage wise??
Are other consumable items taxed the same?

1)no
2) They don't, Norway has the oldest car-park in Europe maybe beaten by some of the old communist countries.. Its an paradox when the country is considered to be one of the wealthiest in the world considered pro capita...
3) 40-50%
4) 25% on food

Yes life sucks.. I know
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      06-18-2011, 07:09 PM   #42
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At least you earn good!
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      06-18-2011, 07:11 PM   #43
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1)no
2) They don't, Norway has the oldest car-park in Europe maybe beaten by some of the old communist countries.. Its an paradox when the country is considered to be one of the wealthiest in the world considered pro capita...
3) 40-50%
4) 25% on food

Yes life sucks.. I know
I don't know about Norway, but here what you just described would essentially cause another revolution. Probably would not get to that since we would vote them out within 2 years. Americans don't particularly like paying taxes. Especially at that level. Good luck to you and your fellow Norwegians.
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      06-18-2011, 07:11 PM   #44
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At least you earn good!

yes, in sweden people have more income tax than in norway but salaries are much lower...

Cars are cheaper though....
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