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      05-24-2011, 10:43 AM   #23
epiphone3
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seems to me like the most likely scenario is that we get a triple scroll turbo (i.e. a single turbo casing with three compressor wheels) on an inline-6. I can't see there being the space or a desirable package scenario for three seperate turbos with either a V6 or inline 6. If it was three seperate turbos, I am pretty sure it would have to be an inline 6 due to packaging.
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      05-24-2011, 10:44 AM   #24
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Well this confirms F3X M3 will have tri-turbo V6...
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      05-24-2011, 11:06 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
can someone please explain the pros and cons of tri-turbo vs. bi-turbo?

Duh, remember Kindergarten! 3 is GREATER than 2. Or 2<3!
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      05-24-2011, 11:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoosyJoos View Post
I do not think it will be based on the N55/N54 though. The N54 doesn't make any sense at this point--- it won't meet the emissions targets for the coming years. Sure they could rework it but IDK--- its an old platform. The N55 is more believable but even then I'm not so sure.
Well, once you rework either of them to a tri-turbo setup, the difference boils down to Valvetronic or not. However, that too, will have always been something that M Division will weigh independently for their own needs anyway. In other words, debating about whether it is based upon the N54 or N55 might be hair splitting. Of course, I am sure they don't have the same shortblock either - maybe not even the same bore/stroke (can't remember). In any case, I personally don't have too much passion about it one way or the other. All I know is that S54 is already taken, so S55 would work out very nicely.

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I think we're about to witness the death of the inline 6 to be honest.
That is a possibility who's day may indeed one day come. But I still have a hard time believing that an M vehicle will usher in the era of the BMW V6. If and when such a time comes, I expect it will occur in conjunction with an entirely new platform that no longer needs the elongated engine compartment to accomodate the I6. If you think about it, it doesn't really make sense to design a platform to hold both a V6 and an I6. And for that matter it makes no sense to be dumping development into V6 and I6 engines at the same time either.

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A tri-turbo inline six doesn't make sense...
There have been rumors to the effect for years, though previously it was with regard to a diesel engine. In fact, as far as I know, that engine has not been killed off and is still set to debut sometime this year. See below.

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Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Well this confirms F3X M3 will have tri-turbo V6...
Hope that was sarcasm, erhanh? All this rumor does is get added the quickly growing stack, spark even more debate, and leave us with even more unanswered questions.
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      05-24-2011, 11:09 AM   #27
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would a tri-turbo engine allow higher redline than a twin turbo? if it does, this would definitely be the way to go for the M3
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      05-24-2011, 11:10 AM   #28
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it would be stupid if they do so
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      05-24-2011, 11:15 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Back on topic, am I the only one disgusted by the notion of the X3M? I know a company has to continuously broaden its portfolio by adding new products, but is there a car that more directly represents the antithesis to everything that ///M stands for than a turbo SUV?!
Nothing surprises me any more aajami. I am pretty jaded toward BMW these days, and pretty much completely desensitized to any new sacrilegious product rumors, ideas or announcements from the guys in Munich. It is not that I've ruled out buying BMW vehicles in the future, but there is no longer that same level of enthusiasm, especially when it comes to the engine technology. I think my poor battered and weary N54 would agree with me, and my S65 keeps looking over its shoulder, waiting to get clubbed.
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      05-24-2011, 11:29 AM   #30
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For some reason I can't stop thinking about the chick with three boobs from total recall. I wouldn't buy it, but I would definitely make my girlfriend buy it and drive it all the time. I am hoping to pick up the f32 M3 though so it will be interesting to see what becomes of this.
Holy SHIT lawlz
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      05-24-2011, 11:46 AM   #31
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I love how not only is BMW pissing all over their tradition at ///M with these SAV ///M vehicles, but they introduced new engines in the SAV BEFORE THE SEDAN AND COUPE COUNTERPARTS!!!!!

Are you f***ing kidding me? Lets just take the ///M5 and ///M3 out back and shoot them........seriously, not only do they turn these pigs into ///Ms and throw torque converter driven transmissions into them, but now they are the ones who get the new engines first?

F**K you BMW if the F3x ///M has the same engine as the X3///M and it comes out first!!!!!!

Rant over

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Last edited by e46e92love; 05-24-2011 at 12:04 PM.
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      05-24-2011, 11:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Hope that was sarcasm, erhanh? All this rumor does is get added the quickly growing stack, spark even more debate, and leave us with even more unanswered questions.
Not really. Slicing the V8 to V6 makes sense to me.. And we first heard a rumor of tri-turbo for M3, and now same rumor for X3M... Also, for efficiency purposes, smaller the engine, larger the turbo boost is better, right.. So a V6 with tri-turbos might really be the "engine" for the next M3...

Also, I remember seeing the mention of a V6 for F3x M3 in Roundel like a year or more ago.. And supposedly it was from a some guy in M divison. The article (or news) had the name of the guy too... And this was in Roundel, not a random webpage or anything..
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      05-24-2011, 11:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbimmer View Post
would a tri-turbo engine allow higher redline than a twin turbo? if it does, this would definitely be the way to go for the M3
I'd like to now this too.. What sets the redline in a turbo engine?

Also, 3rd turbo might be used to reduce lag.. I'm thinking of a very tiny turbo just to reduce lag..
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      05-24-2011, 12:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Back on topic, am I the only one disgusted by the notion of the X3M? I know a company has to continuously broaden its portfolio by adding new products, but is there a car that more directly represents the antithesis to everything that ///M stands for than a turbo SUV?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Nothing surprises me any more aajami. I am pretty jaded toward BMW these days, and pretty much completely desensitized to any new sacrilegious product rumors, ideas or announcements from the guys in Munich. It is not that I've ruled out buying BMW vehicles in the future, but there is no longer that same level of enthusiasm, especially when it comes to the engine technology. I think my poor battered and weary N54 would agree with me, and my S65 keeps looking over its shoulder, waiting to get clubbed.
Oh you two!!! I used to feel the same way until I drove a couple of the "big" M utes. Simply amazing although there's not really any room for such a vehicle (garage and financially) in my life. If I had alot of extra $$ and didn't give a damn about paying $1.50/litre for premium fuel, they'd be my first choice for a family hauler. Can't think of a better way to haul the dogs than with an "M". Don't get me wrong, our current M's are still the epitome of what ///M stands for and I enjoy it thoroughly.

I think the biggest news arising out of the potential for the X3 M will be the motor and it's relationship to the the next-gen M3 as a couple have stated. The X5 and X6 M's were the engine mules, so to speak, for the new M5 and next year's M6. Perhaps this is the case with the new X3???
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      05-24-2011, 12:03 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Nothing surprises me any more aajami. I am pretty jaded toward BMW these days, and pretty much completely desensitized to any new sacrilegious product rumors, ideas or announcements from the guys in Munich. It is not that I've ruled out buying BMW vehicles in the future, but there is no longer that same level of enthusiasm, especially when it comes to the engine technology. I think my poor battered and weary N54 would agree with me, and my S65 keeps looking over its shoulder, waiting to get clubbed.
here, here

Cheers,
e46e92
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      05-24-2011, 12:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Not really...
Ok, well those are all fair points, but remember the rumor in this thread is not about a V6 specifically, but only about a tri-turbo engine. Even if it were another V6 rumor, nothing is yet geninely confirmed. It is still all just talk. The only thing I would be willing to put any sum of money on at this point is that the engine will be 6 cylinder and turbocharged - something we've first heard almost two years ago, now. I don't think we can legitimately rule out the I6 nor the V6 at this point, nor can we rule out any particular turbo configuration yet either.
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      05-24-2011, 12:06 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
I love how not only is BMW pissing all over their tradition at ///M with these SAV ///M vehicles, but they introduced new engines in the SAV BEFORE THE SEDAN AND COUPE COUNTERPARTS.

Are you f***ing kidding me? Lets just take the ///M5 and ///M3 out back and shoot them........seriously, not only do they turn this pigs into ///M3, throw torque converter driven transmissions into them, but now they are the ones who get the new engines first?

F**K you BMW if the F3x ///M has teh same engine as the X3///M and it comes out first!!!!!!

Rant over

Cheers,
e46e92
you are always so calm and collected, I would say the quintessential voice of reason.

But I agree that this is a disturbing rumor, but it is only rumor that 1) the X3M gets a V6 TTT and 2) that the M3 acquires the same or similar engine
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      05-24-2011, 12:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbimmer View Post
would a tri-turbo engine allow higher redline than a twin turbo? if it does, this would definitely be the way to go for the M3
I'd like to now this too.. What sets the redline in a turbo engine?

Also, 3rd turbo might be used to reduce lag.. I'm thinking of a very tiny turbo just to reduce lag..
The way 3 turbos can possibly work if the engine is an inline 6 and the exhaust firing sequence would match up with each turbo (2 exhaust outputs per 1 turbo), this would result in absolutely no turbo lag and an rpm line max anywhere BMW decides ( probably lower than M1 redline since power would come early.
Another scenario is a triple scroll turbo that basically does the same thing but much less power.
I doubt there will be a V6 scenario, since 3 turbos on a V6.. lol. No.
What ever it is, it will have good fuel economy and power across the band.
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      05-24-2011, 12:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark's M View Post
Oh you two!!!
Well, its hard not to be a little incensed when you know that BMW just does not see room for amazing engines like the S65 anymore.

Quote:
I think the biggest news arising out of the potential for the X3 M will be the motor and it's relationship to the the next-gen M3 as a couple have stated. The X5 and X6 M's were the engine mules, so to speak, for the new M5 and next year's M6. Perhaps this is the case with the new X3???
It's still all speculation, but as Mark (not you, not me - the other one ) says in the OP, it makes a good deal of sense. I think there has always been a strong suspiscion that the medium sized Ms would share an engine just like we've know for some time the large Ms are destined to. And for that matter, you can add small Ms to that (1M, Z2 M, X1 M, etc, all likely to share an I4 turbo M engine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
I'd like to now this too.. What sets the redline in a turbo engine?
It can be any RPM, really - just like a naturally aspirated engine. A typical BMW diesel engine has a 5000RPM redline, while a McLaren MP4C has an 8500RPM redline.

Quote:
Also, 3rd turbo might be used to reduce lag.. I'm thinking of a very tiny turbo just to reduce lag..
"Alright then. Imagine a teeny, tiny, little turbocharger, perhaps no larger than the head of a pin..."

(For maximum effect, you have to say that in a German-sounding cartoonish voice. You know, like Disney's Professor Ludwig von Drake.)
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      05-24-2011, 12:34 PM   #40
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The more I hear about this engine, the more OK I am getting with it. I'm sure it'll be absolutely amazing.

Also, BMW is almost forced into doing this (a V6 setup) because of emissions regulations. They want to be at the head of the pack and I don't blame them. The less money that they have to pay in fines, the more money they can put into R&D, which means more amazing products. Just don't give us another 5er GT, I think that they learned there lesson with that one.

One more thing. I'm also all for an ///M version of every model IF it makes sense from a business perspective. I would like to see an M7, maybe rework the V10 from the E60 M5, slap some turbos on it...?
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      05-24-2011, 12:41 PM   #41
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Is there any example of a production tri-turbo setup?
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      05-24-2011, 12:45 PM   #42
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The less money that they have to pay in fines, the more money they can put into their pockets, which means more amazing products with same engines.
fixed.
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      05-24-2011, 01:03 PM   #43
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interesting
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      05-24-2011, 01:25 PM   #44
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seems like a tri-turbo would add a lot of weight and complexity.
how about we leave building BMW cars to BMW. Lets just be fans and watch.
I agree, BMW does appear to know what they are doing. Lol
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