BMW X3 Forum
BMW X3 Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
XBimmers | BMW X3 Forum > BMW X3 Forums | F25 (2011 - Current) > Second Generation BMW X3 General Forum » Video: X3 x-drive versus Q5 quattro

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-24-2010, 10:57 AM   #23
dassub
Captain
 
dassub's Avatar
 
Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 729
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Yeah seriously, I just don't buy it either. I drove an '88 90 Quattro (yep, you read that right) for 4 years, and it outperformed every one of my colleague's cars in the snow and ice, most of which were even SUVs and xi sedans, all with snow tires (including my car).
dassub is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 11:05 AM   #24
mozdal
Private First Class
 
mozdal's Avatar
 
Drives: E84 & F20 & F10
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Turkey

Posts: 173
iTrader: (0)



There is a similar quattro vs. xDrive video. A8 couldn't make it with the front wheels. Both videos didn't seem too objective to me either.
mozdal is offline   Turkey
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 11:12 AM   #25
Pitkis
Private First Class
 
Pitkis's Avatar
 
Drives: i8 (on order)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampere, Finland

Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaloEye View Post
haha very true. you never know what kind of tires each vehicle has. for all we know bmw could've put winter tires on the x3 and performance tires on the q5. i would believe it if i could see it in person and see what tires are on the cars
There's nothing to do what tires these cars have. Difference is so remarkable that tires doesn't explain that. ESP may be the reason - or Audi is just so lousy. Better to test personally.

What comes to xDrive and Quattro differences in normal driving in snow, I don't accept that Quattro would be much better. I drive almost 40 000 miles a year and half of it in heavy snow. Sometimes I'v been the only driver to enter road with my E60 xDrive in my block - there may be 2-3 ft snow walls on the road all over. So what could Quattro do better? X1 xDrive is also nice and my 2nd winter car, but E60 is better in high speed (over 80 mph), 1 ft snow highways.

IMO the difference between two cars in general is more significant that drive ideologies. You can compare special situations seen in video and that's another story. You still have to have extremely vast experience from several drivetrains and car models to frankly admit which drive system is better. Take 740 xDrive vs A8 Q, A6 Q vs 550 xDrive and A4 Q vs 330 xDrive. Drive them each in various snow conditions at least 1000 miles. Then I could say you have opinions and perhaps see the difference.
__________________
E92 M3: M-DCT, full black leather, PDC front & rear, M-Drive, Double Spoke 220 M, EDC, light & mirror package, electric fully-adjustable seats, iPod, Individual audio, Professional navigation, RS-19 pads, 18" OEM track wheels, semi-slicks, Akrapovic Full EVO titanium, KW Clubsport, Challenge Carbon Race trunk, Brembo GT brakes 365/345 mm, RPK CF rear wing

Last edited by Pitkis; 10-24-2010 at 12:13 PM.
Pitkis is offline   Finland
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 11:30 AM   #26
oasis3582
Lieutenant
 
oasis3582's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Posts: 477
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madfast View Post
this video is all marketing. it is widely known that quattro fails when there is zero resistance. the only time you would ever be in such a situation is if the wheels were lifted off the ground. even on ice you have enough resistance that this situation would never occur.

bmw shows you the superiority of their system with a situation 99.999% of us would never actually see in the real world...

bmw = masters of marketing
Bingo.
__________________
Current: BMW 135i cpe BSM / blk/gray / sport / prem / ipod

Previous: 2008 Honda Accord Coupe, 2007 Acura RDX, 2005 Pontiac GTO, 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
oasis3582 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 11:58 AM   #27
bmwnorge
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E70
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada

Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madfast View Post
this video is all marketing. it is widely known that quattro fails when there is zero resistance. the only time you would ever be in such a situation is if the wheels were lifted off the ground. even on ice you have enough resistance that this situation would never occur.

bmw shows you the superiority of their system with a situation 99.999% of us would never actually see in the real world...

bmw = masters of marketing
so the xdrive works in zero resistance?... why did bmw decide to do it this way?
bmwnorge is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 11:58 AM   #28
ns2000x
Converted
 
ns2000x's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Posts: 907
iTrader: (0)

Threads like this make me feel good about internet forums and the fellow enthusiasts who frequent them.


I've owned a torsen based Quattro A4 for over seven years now, in a fairly snowy area. I know it has its limitations, but in my real World driving I can say that in almost 100,000 miles now (~155,000 km's so far) I've only been stuck twice. Once I was an idiot and I attempted to drive through a muddy trail with my summer tires at a MTB race. The second time I got beached on deep packed snow (with my winter tires). All other times Quattro was able to see me clear.

I spend a lot of time on M3 Post as I plan to replace my A4 with a 2011 E90, and am encouraged about the community when I read objective threads like this one.

I'd believe that xdrive may equal or exceed many forms of quattro, but that in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers.

James
__________________

'11 BMW M3 E90 Jerez - Fox
ns2000x is online now   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 12:12 PM   #29
OverDrive
CHEAT TO WIN!!
 
OverDrive's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 1,327
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ns2000x View Post
Threads like this make me feel good about internet forums and the fellow enthusiasts who frequent them.


I've owned a torsen based Quattro A4 for over seven years now, in a fairly snowy area. I know it has its limitations, but in my real World driving I can say that in almost 100,000 miles now (~155,000 km's so far) I've only been stuck twice. Once I was an idiot and I attempted to drive through a muddy trail with my summer tires at a MTB race. The second time I got beached on deep packed snow (with my winter tires). All other times Quattro was able to see me clear.

I spend a lot of time on M3 Post as I plan to replace my A4 with a 2011 E90, and am encouraged about the community when I read objective threads like this one.

I'd believe that xdrive may equal or exceed many forms of quattro, but that in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers.

James
+1

I've had no problems with my xDrive either in the last 3 winters. I've driven my friend's B7 A4 Quattro and didn't feel like it lacked anything in the snow.

They are both great systems and as you mentioned "in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers"

well said
OverDrive is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 01:10 PM   #30
Pitkis
Private First Class
 
Pitkis's Avatar
 
Drives: i8 (on order)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampere, Finland

Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ns2000x View Post
I'd believe that xdrive may equal or exceed many forms of quattro, but that in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers.
Exactly. And better to remember that any four wheel driven car is FAR better in snow than any two wheel driven BMW. It's like comparing which fighter plane makes most Gs when most of the people fly Cessnas...
__________________
E92 M3: M-DCT, full black leather, PDC front & rear, M-Drive, Double Spoke 220 M, EDC, light & mirror package, electric fully-adjustable seats, iPod, Individual audio, Professional navigation, RS-19 pads, 18" OEM track wheels, semi-slicks, Akrapovic Full EVO titanium, KW Clubsport, Challenge Carbon Race trunk, Brembo GT brakes 365/345 mm, RPK CF rear wing
Pitkis is offline   Finland
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 02:30 PM   #31
madfast
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 PB Evo X MR-T
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NY

Posts: 133
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwnorge View Post
so the xdrive works in zero resistance?... why did bmw decide to do it this way?
yes. if both rears are off the ground, x-drive can transfer all the tq to the fronts. quattro uses a torsen center diff and as such if one side is off the ground (or on rollers like this "test") then the diff acts like an open diff and sends more tq to the slipping wheel.

anybody whose ever had a quaife LSD knows this, but how often do we have wheels completely lifted off the ground?

from an objective point of view x-drive IS better than quattro in that you can transfer tq however you like. its all on the software. quattro being 100% mechanical acts only in the way that which it was designed.
madfast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 02:42 PM   #32
Evice
Major
 
Evice's Avatar
 
Drives: BSM 128i M-sport and '98 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere here

Posts: 1,419
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
Exactly. And better to remember that any four wheel driven car is FAR better in snow than any two wheel driven BMW. It's like comparing which fighter plane makes most Gs when most of the people fly Cessnas...
it is about x drive, not the 2wheel drive bimmers.

my opinion is this; I am pretty sure BMW is doing this test knowing that they are superior. And I agree that, there will be so few times that you will actually loose 100% traction on 2 wheels.

I still prefer x-drive. And it is because sensor technologies are now soo advanced that I believe Quattro lost is edge.

Yes I do own X3.
__________________
-- '09 BSM 128i - '98 E36 M3 - BMWCR IS #718
BMWCCA Instructor & 2013 BMWCR I-Sport National Champion.
http://www.youtube.com/alisalih

Last edited by Evice; 10-24-2010 at 02:51 PM.
Evice is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 03:03 PM   #33
racedoc11
Major
 
racedoc11's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Audi RS5 & 2008 M3 E93
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA

Posts: 1,178
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 Audi RS5  [5.00]
2008 E93 M3  [5.00]
I agree...
Quote:
Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
No question I am a BMW fan, but I would bet money the ESP was turned off on the q5 and that's why it failed.
racedoc11 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 03:17 PM   #34
Minimization
Private First Class
 
Minimization's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 BMW M5 Sedan SMG III
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Posts: 155
iTrader: (0)

Something is wrong. I had a 2000 S4 2.7 T Quattro and that thing was just unstoppable. Up until recently, BMW's xDrive system was archaic compared to Quattro. You now look at the system being introduced in the new RS5 and it's pretty cutting edge. I'd say the current X6 and S4 systems with active rear differentials are both very impressive.
__________________
2006 BMW M5 Sedan
SMG III
Silverstone Metallic/Black Perforated Merino/Aluminum,
X2/4MA/610/322/453/655/416/465/261/496
Minimization is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 03:29 PM   #35
watoowatoo
Private First Class
 
Drives: 09 35i X6
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montreal

Posts: 168
iTrader: (0)







watoowatoo is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 04:18 PM   #36
Pitkis
Private First Class
 
Pitkis's Avatar
 
Drives: i8 (on order)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampere, Finland

Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
I still prefer x-drive. And it is because sensor technologies are now soo advanced that I believe Quattro lost is edge.
I prefer also BMW and would not go Audi. There are technical differences between these systems and their performance varies depending on driving situation. I think BMW may be the best system since it sounds the most flexible and variable 4wd system in the industry. But if Audi can prove they are better, ok, they haven't beaten a bad competitor. They are not using bad sensor either, perhaps supplied by the same subcontractor with BMW...

Buying xDrive or Quattro is getting like getting a gold medal of snow driving. Arguing all after that is just about do you get world record at the same time or not...if you don't drive on ice or snow, xDrive is not needed anyway IMO.

It's much easier to compare RS5 and M3 on track and measure laptimes than try to estimate snow-going capabilities of two different cars. You can compare them side-by-side in real life environment, but have you seen it? Sometimes, but not very often.

How many estimate laptimes based on "sensor quality" or parking area test-rig behaviour?
__________________
E92 M3: M-DCT, full black leather, PDC front & rear, M-Drive, Double Spoke 220 M, EDC, light & mirror package, electric fully-adjustable seats, iPod, Individual audio, Professional navigation, RS-19 pads, 18" OEM track wheels, semi-slicks, Akrapovic Full EVO titanium, KW Clubsport, Challenge Carbon Race trunk, Brembo GT brakes 365/345 mm, RPK CF rear wing
Pitkis is offline   Finland
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 04:47 PM   #37
red-sauerkraut
.
 
red-sauerkraut's Avatar
 
Drives: x-car/m-car
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: northern hemisphere

Posts: 3,561
iTrader: (0)




Quote:
Originally Posted by watoowatoo View Post




__________________
Infinite Driving Pleasure
red-sauerkraut is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 06:39 PM   #38
Evice
Major
 
Evice's Avatar
 
Drives: BSM 128i M-sport and '98 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere here

Posts: 1,419
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
I prefer also BMW and would not go Audi. There are technical differences between these systems and their performance varies depending on driving situation. I think BMW may be the best system since it sounds the most flexible and variable 4wd system in the industry. But if Audi can prove they are better, ok, they haven't beaten a bad competitor. They are not using bad sensor either, perhaps supplied by the same subcontractor with BMW...

Buying xDrive or Quattro is getting like getting a gold medal of snow driving. Arguing all after that is just about do you get world record at the same time or not...if you don't drive on ice or snow, xDrive is not needed anyway IMO.

It's much easier to compare RS5 and M3 on track and measure laptimes than try to estimate snow-going capabilities of two different cars. You can compare them side-by-side in real life environment, but have you seen it? Sometimes, but not very often.

How many estimate laptimes based on "sensor quality" or parking area test-rig behaviour?
I think you are quite confused. I never said Audi uses bad sensors, it has nothing to do with Good or Bad sensor... It is purely related with how the system handles.

Also, Haldex coupling is better for fuel economy and drive-train loss then Torsen used in quattro. Torsen is heavy.
__________________
-- '09 BSM 128i - '98 E36 M3 - BMWCR IS #718
BMWCCA Instructor & 2013 BMWCR I-Sport National Champion.
http://www.youtube.com/alisalih

Last edited by Evice; 10-24-2010 at 06:56 PM.
Evice is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 06:47 PM   #39
Merciphil
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Socal

Posts: 123
iTrader: (0)

wow still great vid
Merciphil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 07:22 PM   #40
Schm
Colonel
 
Schm's Avatar
 
Drives: 330i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arizona

Posts: 2,648
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
Real world situations please.

And tested by a 3rd party please.

+1 million. My family has a q5 3.2 petrol, we love it. Interior is great, great power, does really well in the snow on the stock all-seasons. Personally, I would be happy with either of those cars, I really like the new X3 as well.
__________________
2006 E90 330i.
Schm is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 07:29 PM   #41
keanu1
tiamat
 
keanu1's Avatar
 
Drives: 525 d
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: romania

Posts: 1,311
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Shark View Post
I might be wrong, but Haldex version Quattro (one of Quattro systems Audi is using) can transfer maximum 100% of the torque to the rear axle. In normal condition distribution ratio is around 95%/85% front & 5%/15% rear though.
I think haldex is used by vw and is not very performant!
keanu1 is offline   Romania
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 07:33 PM   #42
keanu1
tiamat
 
keanu1's Avatar
 
Drives: 525 d
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: romania

Posts: 1,311
iTrader: (0)

I saw 2 year ago a comparison between 330 xd and audi a5 3.0d quatrro and the bmw had the better awd system!! So...
keanu1 is offline   Romania
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 08:08 PM   #43
rikwynnpa
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2012 F10 535xi MSport
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Philly

Posts: 49
iTrader: (0)

Never believe anything you see on Youtube

enough said.
rikwynnpa is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2010, 09:18 PM   #44
ns2000x
Converted
 
ns2000x's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Posts: 907
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by keanu1 View Post
I think haldex is used by vw and is not very performant!
Any of the transversely mounted engines with awd from Audi / VW use a Haldex version of Quattro. Including the Golf R32, and the A3 Quattro.

EDIT: As such longitudinal mounted VW's use the TORSEN centre diff like most of the Audi's.
__________________

'11 BMW M3 E90 Jerez - Fox

Last edited by ns2000x; 10-24-2010 at 09:28 PM.
ns2000x is online now   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST