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XBimmers | BMW X3 Forum > BMW X3 Forums | F25 (2011 - Current) > Second Generation BMW X3 General Forum » Video: X3 x-drive versus Q5 quattro

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      10-24-2010, 10:57 AM   #23
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Yeah seriously, I just don't buy it either. I drove an '88 90 Quattro (yep, you read that right) for 4 years, and it outperformed every one of my colleague's cars in the snow and ice, most of which were even SUVs and xi sedans, all with snow tires (including my car).
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      10-24-2010, 11:05 AM   #24
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There is a similar quattro vs. xDrive video. A8 couldn't make it with the front wheels. Both videos didn't seem too objective to me either.
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      10-24-2010, 11:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaloEye View Post
haha very true. you never know what kind of tires each vehicle has. for all we know bmw could've put winter tires on the x3 and performance tires on the q5. i would believe it if i could see it in person and see what tires are on the cars
There's nothing to do what tires these cars have. Difference is so remarkable that tires doesn't explain that. ESP may be the reason - or Audi is just so lousy. Better to test personally.

What comes to xDrive and Quattro differences in normal driving in snow, I don't accept that Quattro would be much better. I drive almost 40 000 miles a year and half of it in heavy snow. Sometimes I'v been the only driver to enter road with my E60 xDrive in my block - there may be 2-3 ft snow walls on the road all over. So what could Quattro do better? X1 xDrive is also nice and my 2nd winter car, but E60 is better in high speed (over 80 mph), 1 ft snow highways.

IMO the difference between two cars in general is more significant that drive ideologies. You can compare special situations seen in video and that's another story. You still have to have extremely vast experience from several drivetrains and car models to frankly admit which drive system is better. Take 740 xDrive vs A8 Q, A6 Q vs 550 xDrive and A4 Q vs 330 xDrive. Drive them each in various snow conditions at least 1000 miles. Then I could say you have opinions and perhaps see the difference.
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Last edited by Pitkis; 10-24-2010 at 12:13 PM.
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      10-24-2010, 11:30 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madfast View Post
this video is all marketing. it is widely known that quattro fails when there is zero resistance. the only time you would ever be in such a situation is if the wheels were lifted off the ground. even on ice you have enough resistance that this situation would never occur.

bmw shows you the superiority of their system with a situation 99.999% of us would never actually see in the real world...

bmw = masters of marketing
Bingo.
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      10-24-2010, 11:58 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madfast View Post
this video is all marketing. it is widely known that quattro fails when there is zero resistance. the only time you would ever be in such a situation is if the wheels were lifted off the ground. even on ice you have enough resistance that this situation would never occur.

bmw shows you the superiority of their system with a situation 99.999% of us would never actually see in the real world...

bmw = masters of marketing
so the xdrive works in zero resistance?... why did bmw decide to do it this way?
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      10-24-2010, 11:58 AM   #28
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Threads like this make me feel good about internet forums and the fellow enthusiasts who frequent them.


I've owned a torsen based Quattro A4 for over seven years now, in a fairly snowy area. I know it has its limitations, but in my real World driving I can say that in almost 100,000 miles now (~155,000 km's so far) I've only been stuck twice. Once I was an idiot and I attempted to drive through a muddy trail with my summer tires at a MTB race. The second time I got beached on deep packed snow (with my winter tires). All other times Quattro was able to see me clear.

I spend a lot of time on M3 Post as I plan to replace my A4 with a 2011 E90, and am encouraged about the community when I read objective threads like this one.

I'd believe that xdrive may equal or exceed many forms of quattro, but that in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers.

James
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      10-24-2010, 12:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ns2000x View Post
Threads like this make me feel good about internet forums and the fellow enthusiasts who frequent them.


I've owned a torsen based Quattro A4 for over seven years now, in a fairly snowy area. I know it has its limitations, but in my real World driving I can say that in almost 100,000 miles now (~155,000 km's so far) I've only been stuck twice. Once I was an idiot and I attempted to drive through a muddy trail with my summer tires at a MTB race. The second time I got beached on deep packed snow (with my winter tires). All other times Quattro was able to see me clear.

I spend a lot of time on M3 Post as I plan to replace my A4 with a 2011 E90, and am encouraged about the community when I read objective threads like this one.

I'd believe that xdrive may equal or exceed many forms of quattro, but that in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers.

James
+1

I've had no problems with my xDrive either in the last 3 winters. I've driven my friend's B7 A4 Quattro and didn't feel like it lacked anything in the snow.

They are both great systems and as you mentioned "in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers"

well said
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      10-24-2010, 01:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ns2000x View Post
I'd believe that xdrive may equal or exceed many forms of quattro, but that in the real World both will do what they need to for their drivers.
Exactly. And better to remember that any four wheel driven car is FAR better in snow than any two wheel driven BMW. It's like comparing which fighter plane makes most Gs when most of the people fly Cessnas...
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      10-24-2010, 02:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwnorge View Post
so the xdrive works in zero resistance?... why did bmw decide to do it this way?
yes. if both rears are off the ground, x-drive can transfer all the tq to the fronts. quattro uses a torsen center diff and as such if one side is off the ground (or on rollers like this "test") then the diff acts like an open diff and sends more tq to the slipping wheel.

anybody whose ever had a quaife LSD knows this, but how often do we have wheels completely lifted off the ground?

from an objective point of view x-drive IS better than quattro in that you can transfer tq however you like. its all on the software. quattro being 100% mechanical acts only in the way that which it was designed.
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      10-24-2010, 02:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
Exactly. And better to remember that any four wheel driven car is FAR better in snow than any two wheel driven BMW. It's like comparing which fighter plane makes most Gs when most of the people fly Cessnas...
it is about x drive, not the 2wheel drive bimmers.

my opinion is this; I am pretty sure BMW is doing this test knowing that they are superior. And I agree that, there will be so few times that you will actually loose 100% traction on 2 wheels.

I still prefer x-drive. And it is because sensor technologies are now soo advanced that I believe Quattro lost is edge.

Yes I do own X3.
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Last edited by Evice; 10-24-2010 at 02:51 PM.
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      10-24-2010, 03:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
No question I am a BMW fan, but I would bet money the ESP was turned off on the q5 and that's why it failed.
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      10-24-2010, 03:17 PM   #34
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Something is wrong. I had a 2000 S4 2.7 T Quattro and that thing was just unstoppable. Up until recently, BMW's xDrive system was archaic compared to Quattro. You now look at the system being introduced in the new RS5 and it's pretty cutting edge. I'd say the current X6 and S4 systems with active rear differentials are both very impressive.
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      10-24-2010, 03:29 PM   #35
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      10-24-2010, 04:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
I still prefer x-drive. And it is because sensor technologies are now soo advanced that I believe Quattro lost is edge.
I prefer also BMW and would not go Audi. There are technical differences between these systems and their performance varies depending on driving situation. I think BMW may be the best system since it sounds the most flexible and variable 4wd system in the industry. But if Audi can prove they are better, ok, they haven't beaten a bad competitor. They are not using bad sensor either, perhaps supplied by the same subcontractor with BMW...

Buying xDrive or Quattro is getting like getting a gold medal of snow driving. Arguing all after that is just about do you get world record at the same time or not...if you don't drive on ice or snow, xDrive is not needed anyway IMO.

It's much easier to compare RS5 and M3 on track and measure laptimes than try to estimate snow-going capabilities of two different cars. You can compare them side-by-side in real life environment, but have you seen it? Sometimes, but not very often.

How many estimate laptimes based on "sensor quality" or parking area test-rig behaviour?
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      10-24-2010, 04:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watoowatoo View Post




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      10-24-2010, 06:39 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
I prefer also BMW and would not go Audi. There are technical differences between these systems and their performance varies depending on driving situation. I think BMW may be the best system since it sounds the most flexible and variable 4wd system in the industry. But if Audi can prove they are better, ok, they haven't beaten a bad competitor. They are not using bad sensor either, perhaps supplied by the same subcontractor with BMW...

Buying xDrive or Quattro is getting like getting a gold medal of snow driving. Arguing all after that is just about do you get world record at the same time or not...if you don't drive on ice or snow, xDrive is not needed anyway IMO.

It's much easier to compare RS5 and M3 on track and measure laptimes than try to estimate snow-going capabilities of two different cars. You can compare them side-by-side in real life environment, but have you seen it? Sometimes, but not very often.

How many estimate laptimes based on "sensor quality" or parking area test-rig behaviour?
I think you are quite confused. I never said Audi uses bad sensors, it has nothing to do with Good or Bad sensor... It is purely related with how the system handles.

Also, Haldex coupling is better for fuel economy and drive-train loss then Torsen used in quattro. Torsen is heavy.
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Last edited by Evice; 10-24-2010 at 06:56 PM.
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      10-24-2010, 06:47 PM   #39
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wow still great vid
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      10-24-2010, 07:22 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
Real world situations please.

And tested by a 3rd party please.

+1 million. My family has a q5 3.2 petrol, we love it. Interior is great, great power, does really well in the snow on the stock all-seasons. Personally, I would be happy with either of those cars, I really like the new X3 as well.
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      10-24-2010, 07:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Shark View Post
I might be wrong, but Haldex version Quattro (one of Quattro systems Audi is using) can transfer maximum 100% of the torque to the rear axle. In normal condition distribution ratio is around 95%/85% front & 5%/15% rear though.
I think haldex is used by vw and is not very performant!
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      10-24-2010, 07:33 PM   #42
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I saw 2 year ago a comparison between 330 xd and audi a5 3.0d quatrro and the bmw had the better awd system!! So...
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      10-24-2010, 08:08 PM   #43
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Never believe anything you see on Youtube

enough said.
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      10-24-2010, 09:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keanu1 View Post
I think haldex is used by vw and is not very performant!
Any of the transversely mounted engines with awd from Audi / VW use a Haldex version of Quattro. Including the Golf R32, and the A3 Quattro.

EDIT: As such longitudinal mounted VW's use the TORSEN centre diff like most of the Audi's.
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