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      06-03-2010, 04:19 PM   #23
bmrm396
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"think an X6 but in 3-series size" ... you mean an X3? pretty sure BMW has one of these stupid "crossovers." im not a fan of the idea and i hope they dont waste the money - i agree there are already too many niche cars

go back and make more m3 sedans damnit! ha
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      06-03-2010, 04:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TsunamiFury View Post
The Z4S is basically as M as a Z4 needs to be and its a hard top so who needs a coupe?!
You make some good points, but the above quoted portion is mind-numbingly incorrect.
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      06-03-2010, 05:01 PM   #25
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      06-03-2010, 06:05 PM   #26
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I'm not feeling the rendering but I am sure BMW will make this vehicle a looker like the X6 sport pack.
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      06-04-2010, 12:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by TsunamiFury View Post
You people are so self-aggrandizingly delusional. BMW's core business is sports cars? Get a clue, BMW's core business is selling badged cars to wealthy housewives.

The fact that BMW uses that money to PAY to research cars like the M3 is something you should all be thankful for. You all bitch and moan all day about how BMW is losing its way, yet the most recent M3 by all practical measurements has been considered the greatest affordable sports car ever made. The Z4S is basically as M as a Z4 needs to be and its a hard top so who needs a coupe?!

The X6 did not kill BMW, it made them lots of money, as did the X5 before that when everyone was crying that BMW's SAV will ruin the name.

The fact is, BMW right now makes the greatest cars their company has even seen, and they are getting even better and more diverse.
Look at who is being delusional.

What are these practical measurements and who crowned it the best? You, recognizing it's miserly 20MPG Combined, the lack of weight and also the fact that it is not based on a family saloon?

Technically, they make the best performing, best packaged and most efficient cars now as is the way with technological advances but blindly claiming that all progress is good is rubbish, full stop.

Finally, if the M3 was a loss making venture and it does cannibalize profits from other models, as you so claim, BMW would not make it. Stop being a twat and think of what you write.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      06-04-2010, 01:24 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by blue2fire View Post
Look at who is being delusional.

What are these practical measurements and who crowned it the best? You, recognizing it's miserly 20MPG Combined, the lack of weight and also the fact that it is not based on a family saloon?

Technically, they make the best performing, best packaged and most efficient cars now as is the way with technological advances but blindly claiming that all progress is good is rubbish, full stop.

Finally, if the M3 was a loss making venture and it does cannibalize profits from other models, as you so claim, BMW would not make it. Stop being a twat and think of what you write.
I think you misread my post or have trouble with comprehension. I implied that the m3 WAS a loss leader obviously funded by the money made by vehicles like the x6, which so many self proclaimed purists trash here.

The M3 has been called the greatest vehicle in production by a number of publications including Car & Driver, KBB, and a few others.

As to your other insulting comment, I do think before I write as I am a professional journalist who has been published in many major American national papers and magazines.

Last edited by TsunamiFury; 06-04-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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      06-04-2010, 07:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TsunamiFury View Post
I think you misread my post or have trouble with comprehension. I implied that the m3 WAS a loss leader obviously funded by the money made by vehicles like the x6, which so many self proclaimed purists trash here.

The M3 has been called the greatest vehicle in productions by a number of publications including Car & Driver, KBB, and a few others.

As to your other insulting comment, I do think before I write as I am a professional journalist who has been published in many major American national papers and magazines.
I think you both make some valid points but I'm siding, in general, with Tsunami on this one.

Empirically, many other car companies openly acknowledge the existence of loss leader performance cars. Take the Bugatti Veyron for example. Even at over a $1 million euro selling price, the revenue covers the direct cost to make one but in no way covers the pro rata share of indirect (R&D expenses) incurred per unit. The business reason? Its re-establishing a brand with technology, marketing and exclusivity that Volkswagen can later leverage to sell less capable, less costly sports cars at a higher premium.

Now move on to racing programs. Ferrari's racing program nearly bankrupt the company during many pre-Fiat years. Why? Because motorsports research and development and track success are expensive and Ferrari didn't pursue the Ford production mentality (ie. make the everyman's car). In fact, Enzo despised building road cars but considered it a necessary evil to pursue his real passion - racing. Hence the solid brand image of Ferrari.

So what does this mean for BMW? It means they subsidize the cost of M and performance models with other less capable units. The M cars and the 7 series serve as the flagships for BMW's two primary demographics - wealthy folks and performance oriented drivers. Even though BMW does not release profitability figures by division, the M subsidy is evident in their financial reporting when they disclose that the M division has the lowest profit margin per car.

Consider porsche: the company, with the 911, maintains the highest profit per car in the auto industry. What does this fact reveal? That porsche has a good product that they rarely up-engineer or invest in (compared to other manufacturers) and, thanks to that, they have a lower cost structure and a higher net income for the 911.

IMO I'd much rather buy the car that "loss leads" or provides "lower margins" b/c, inherent in that logic, I'm getting more for the money under the assumption that the company is good at its core competency. That philosophy certainly doesn't imply that I'd buy a POS just because it costs less to buy than to produce, but given the quality, engineering and fun you get out of most M division products, I think they've got the right idea (even in light of the separate arguments around evolution of the M brand, XM cars, weight/power and Forced Induction/NA engines).
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