[halfmoonclip]

We're shopping an X3 to replace our Audi; one of the options is a 'dynamic handling package'. The salesman said he'd never sold one.
Anyone have any firm opinions about this option?
Thanks,
Moon

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by halfmoonclip

We're shopping an X3 to replace our Audi; one of the options is a 'dynamic handling package'. The salesman said he'd never sold one.
Anyone have any firm opinions about this option?
Thanks,
Moon

As BMW this is a must.. unless you prefer a softer ride or possibly a firmer ride... I would if its an option,go drive one with and without. Its an adjustable suspension/dampers.. normally a range of soft/normal/sport

[exon]

Originally Posted by halfmoonclip

We're shopping an X3 to replace our Audi; one of the options is a 'dynamic handling package'. The salesman said he'd never sold one.
Anyone have any firm opinions about this option?
Thanks,
Moon

Theoretically this is a must have option given how cheap it is.

But in reality you are probably not going to see any cars with DHP on the dealer lot and the salesman will give you extra discount if you buy off the lot instead of ordering.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by exon

Theoretically this is a must have option given how cheap it is.

But in reality you are probably not going to see any cars with DHP on the dealer lot and the salesman will give you extra discount if you buy off the lot instead of ordering.

This.

Plus, you can't tell a person to test drive a car that doesn't exist.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by exon

Theoretically this is a must have option given how cheap it is.

But in reality you are probably not going to see any cars with DHP on the dealer lot and the salesman will give you extra discount if you buy off the lot instead of ordering.

It's not cheap. Have you looked at replacement part cost? On my 335i M Sport RWD, it's about 2-3x the replacement cost of a Sport strut.

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

As BMW this is a must.. unless you prefer a softer ride or possibly a firmer ride... I would if its an option,go drive one with and without. Its an adjustable suspension/dampers.. normally a range of soft/normal/sport

DHP isn't going to fix not having enough of a spring rate.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

It's not cheap. Have you looked at replacement part cost? On my 335i M Sport RWD, it's about 2-3x the replacement cost of a Sport strut.



DHP isn't going to fix not having enough of a spring rate.

That's like saying the Xenon headlights option is not cheap because each one costs 2 grand for replacement...

I agree however that long term, if one doesn't have warranty or maintenance plan, the replacement may be costly and should consider this factor when ordering a car from new (how long one intends to keep it vs how long of a warranty or maintenance plan to purchase).

The quoted post referred to the cost to purchase, not cost to own.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by I'm wrong

That's like saying the Xenon headlights option is not cheap because each one costs 2 grand for replacement...

I agree however that long term, if one doesn't have warranty or maintenance plan, the replacement may be costly and should consider this factor when ordering a car from new (how long one intends to keep it vs how long of a warranty or maintenance plan to purchase).

The quoted post referred to the cost to purchase, not cost to own.

Except Xenon headlights are not generally considered "wear and tear" items. Those bulbs will last quite a while - if no defect, far longer than shocks/struts.

Struts/shocks are wear and tear items. They will definitely need to be replaced with enough use.

Ride/handling can be improved by switching from all season RFTs to excellent non-RFT summer and winter tires.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Except Xenon headlights are not generally considered "wear and tear" items. Those bulbs will last quite a while - if no defect, far longer than shocks/struts.

Struts/shocks are wear and tear items. They will definitely need to be replaced with enough use.

Ride/handling can be improved by switching from all season RFTs to excellent non-RFT summer and winter tires.

Not sure what you're suggesting with your last sentence.
I read "buying more expensive shocks is not worth it because you can buy different tires".
It's an apple and oranges comparison...

[exon]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

It's not cheap. Have you looked at replacement part cost? On my 335i M Sport RWD, it's about 2-3x the replacement cost of a Sport strut.

DHP isn't going to fix not having enough of a spring rate.

A $1400 option on a BMW is quite cheap to me, especially for something that changes the driving experience this much. The way I think about it, it is an option that differentiates a luxury car from a more basic car. It is also an option that makes the run-flats livable, so you don't have to shell out extra money (&time) to get regular tires. (but also imagine if you do have both good tires and DHP )

Regarding the replacement costs, I would only worry about it if I am getting a high-mileage used car or plan to keep the new car for a long long time. I am suspecting DHP may actually last longer (mechanically) as in normal driving its damping rate is very low thus much less work for the shocks from bumps/potholes. but on the electrical side who knows....

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by exon

A $1400 option on a BMW is quite cheap to me, especially for something that changes the driving experience this much. The way I think about it, it is an option that differentiates a luxury car from a more basic car. It is also an option that makes the run-flats livable, so you don't have to shell out extra money (&time) to get regular tires. (but also imagine if you do have both good tires and DHP )

Regarding the replacement costs, I would only worry about it if I am getting a high-mileage used car or plan to keep the new car for a long long time. I am suspecting DHP may actually last longer (mechanically) as in normal driving its damping rate is very low thus much less work for the shocks from bumps/potholes. but on the electrical side who knows....

So it's pick your poison. You're either shelling out money for a complicated suspension system that makes RFT livable or you're shelling out money for better tires. Personally, I'd rather have the less mechanically complex solution that achieves the same result.

I've driven 30,000-35,000 miles this past year. Wear and tear from mileage and replacement costs are a factor in my purchasing decision.

[exon]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

So it's pick your poison. You're either shelling out money for a complicated suspension system that makes RFT livable or you're shelling out money for better tires. Personally, I'd rather have the less mechanically complex solution that achieves the same result.

I've driven 30,000-35,000 miles this past year. Wear and tear from mileage and replacement costs are a factor in my purchasing decision.

yeah it really depends on each's own situation. I would option differently if i drive as many mile as you do too... 35k per year is a lot.

DHP is way more than making RFT livable though. It softens the ride (which is really the major drawback of RFT) when you are going straight. It firms up when you start cornering (when the hard sidewall of RFT actually provides better steering accuracy than regular tires). So it is really the best of both worlds. Regular tires just don't provide this kind of adaptability.

DHP or not, i would still replace the damn RFTs with good regular tires... I like my Michelin MXM4s so far.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by exon

yeah it really depends on each's own situation. I would option differently if i drive as many mile as you do too... 35k per year is a lot.

DHP is way more than making RFT livable though. It softens the ride (which is really the major drawback of RFT) when you are going straight. It firms up when you start cornering (when the hard sidewall of RFT actually provides better steering accuracy than regular tires). So it is really the best of both worlds. Regular tires just don't provide this kind of adaptability.

DHP or not, i would still replace the damn RFTs with good regular tires... I like my Michelin MXM4s so far.

I'm not convinced that an OEM RFT + DHP is going to outperform a car with base suspension in > 60F weather wearing Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires or < 40F weather wearing a performance winter tire.

If DHP was so great, then why is there a consensus that for a F30 RWD, the M Performance Suspension > DHP from a performance perspective.

[clivem2]

I've had an X3 with MSport suspension (UK so this is firm) and my current X3 with DHP. DHP is so much better, good all the time vs MSport which is only good on smooth roads.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by clivem2

I've had an X3 with MSport suspension (UK so this is firm) and my current X3 with DHP. DHP is so much better, good all the time vs MSport which is only good on smooth roads.

There are a lot of variables here:

Country
Base Suspension
M Sport Suspension
DHP vs. non-DHP

DHP may be great, until you have to replace it. If you drive minimally such as a typical US lease, then I suppose it's great. If you actually drive your vehicle (a lot), your thoughts would be difference once the replacement cost hits your wallet.

[rodneychan]

I have the 13 X3 35i Msport the suspension with the runflat tires, the setup is away too stiff for Canada road condition. We regret we didn't pick that option, and I believe that was 1500 option.

[exon]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

I'm not convinced that an OEM RFT + DHP is going to outperform a car with base suspension in > 60F weather wearing Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires or < 40F weather wearing a performance winter tire.

If DHP was so great, then why is there a consensus that for a F30 RWD, the M Performance Suspension > DHP from a performance perspective.

The right comparison would be like "Pirelli Cinturato RFT + DHP" vs "Pirelli Cinturato Non-RFT + Base Suspension". Or at least two all-season tires in the same catefory, one RFT one non-RFT.

But performance number could be a moot point in this case (if all the roads are as smooth as testing facilities very few would be complaining about RFTs). It doesn't reflect real world subjective quality such as ride quality or steering feel either...

But I think we should be happy we have the option to choose DHP or not, to fit everyones needs. Unlike the RFTs....

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by rodneychan

I have the 13 X3 35i Msport the suspension with the runflat tires, the setup is away too stiff for Canada road condition. We regret we didn't pick that option, and I believe that was 1500 option.

19" RFT tires? That's your problem right there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the springs on the M Sport are the same exact springs on the base X3? If anything, the X3's base suspension is too soft relative to my 335i RWD M Sport.

For the US, the 335i xDrive models use the base suspension regardless of whether it is the Sport or M Sport trim. Most regard this suspension as way too soft. I doubt that this is the opposite case with the X3 being that the static suspension is way too stiff.

Originally Posted by exon

The right comparison would be like "Pirelli Cinturato RFT + DHP" vs "Pirelli Cinturato Non-RFT + Base Suspension". Or at least two all-season tires in the same catefory, one RFT one non-RFT.

But performance number could be a moot point in this case (if all the roads are as smooth as testing facilities very few would be complaining about RFTs). It doesn't reflect real world subjective quality such as ride quality or steering feel either...

But I think we should be happy we have the option to choose DHP or not, to fit everyones needs. Unlike the RFTs....

The way I see it, it should be based on equal cost. The DHP option is still greater than the cost of 4x Michelin Pilot Super Sports + mount/balance.

If the complaint is that the base suspension is too stiff, it's almost certainly not the case of the suspension. It is because of the RFT tires.

If the complaint is that the suspension is not stiff enough, then it's a valid complaint that the DHP attempts to address. But because it doesn't alter the spring rate, it's only treating one side of the deficiency.

Either way, performance gains and ride improvements from tire improvements are far more significant than suspension changes.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

19" RFT tires? That's your problem right there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the springs on the M Sport are the same exact springs on the base X3? If anything, the X3's base suspension is too soft relative to my 335i RWD M Sport.

For the US, the 335i xDrive models use the base suspension regardless of whether it is the Sport or M Sport trim. Most regard this suspension as way too soft. I doubt that this is the opposite case with the X3 being that the static suspension is way too stiff.



The way I see it, it should be based on equal cost. The DHP option is still greater than the cost of 4x Michelin Pilot Super Sports + mount/balance.

If the complaint is that the base suspension is too stiff, it's almost certainly not the case of the suspension. It is because of the RFT tires.

If the complaint is that the suspension is not stiff enough, then it's a valid complaint that the DHP attempts to address. But because it doesn't alter the spring rate, it's only treating one side of the deficiency.

Either way, performance gains and ride improvements from tire improvements are far more significant than suspension changes.

Your post makes RFT tires sound like the last piece of crap in this world lol...

I replaced my RFT with NON-RFT for Winter tires and felt a difference in the first days (not abismal like you guys make it sound like) and then got used to it being stiff again...

Cheers

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by I'm wrong

Your post makes RFT tires sound like the last piece of crap in this world lol...

I replaced my RFT with NON-RFT for Winter tires and felt a difference in the first days (not abismal like you guys make it sound like) and then got used to it being stiff again...

Cheers

From a handling/ride perspective, they are. Now I recognize that real roads aren't a racetrack.

If you have a loved one that is driving the car and isn't well versed in how to change a tire on the side of the road, then yes, you make a compromise (ie. RFT) for them. I get that.

I'm personally not convinced that DHP is an excellent option for me. I think most BMW suspensions are fairly well sorted out (even the base suspensions) relative to other manufacturers.

I try to keep my cars as simple as possible.

When I ordered my 2014 335i RWD it had the following options:
- Sport Automatic Transmission
- M Sport
- Heated front seats
- HK sound
- M Sport Brake Option

I'd like to keep it for 6-8 years and put around 30,000+ miles/year on it. We'll see how that works. I do most of the work myself since I have access to a garage with air tools, lifts, Hunter alignment machines, wheel mounters/balancers, etc.

[exon]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Either way, performance gains and ride improvements from tire improvements are far more significant than suspension changes.

DHP makes the ride soft or firm in real time and individually on each wheel, I don't know any tire that could change its firmness on the fly...

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by exon

DHP makes the ride soft or firm in real time and individually on each wheel, I don't know any tire that could change its firmness on the fly...

Do you have technical literature that supports this?

How exactly do you define "real time"? I always get a chuckle when people use this term because it sounds cool but most people can't properly define it. Either BMW is completely underrating their product, or your over-marketing it.


To quote the BMWUSA site: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...g_control.html

Dynamic Damper Control.

The Dynamic Damper Control makes it possible to ideally adjust the damper characteristics to suit any given driving situation, improving comfort and driving dynamics.

From an engineering perspective, it sounds like this system allows the user to adjust - "makes it possible to..." - instead of automatically. Conceptually, this system mechanically alters the valving of the shock to provide a preset dampening.

This system is NOT to be confused with a system such as GM's Magnetic Ride Control which actually makes up to 1000 adjustments per second in "real time". This is the system that can make adjustments mid-bump. It is capable of this because it achieves dampening changes very differently. It actually alters the viscosity of the fluid almost instantaneously.

[barcelona]

OP, you asked for " firm" opinions. lol...You have been showered. Lots of good points shared.
I did not get DHP because repair cost per dealer is high, may be a wear tear item and not EWarranty item, keep things simple approach. My traveled roads are relatively ok and all at right angles. Initally I wanted to keep car for 7 yrs now changed to 3 yrs so repairs is no longer concern.

Assuming DHP is 2VP Dynamic Adaptive Suspension, the cost is $3500 cdn on the x5/6.
It is not listed in the pricing guide for x3, so if it is orderable there will be an additional $400 Special Order charge. Not cheap. Personally, I value the safety stuff like ACC, DA+ more.

Generally from what I gather on the x5 forum, those that have it love it.