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      01-29-2014, 01:47 PM   #45
lbjgh
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There is no need for a trickle charger on a new car. Period.

Maybe BMW needs to hire a Ford or General Motors or Hyundai engineer to teach them how to design a charging system.

The design fault is unacceptable and BMW owners who rationalize a design faulty by using a trickle charger doesn't help.

Owners should let BMW know the design fault is unacceptable and BMW should acknowledge the fault and upgrade the car's software to permit proper operation.

Driving profile my arse... My 80+ year old mother has a 1996 Nissan which is used maybe twice a week for very short trips and it doesn't require a trickle charger... then again a Nissan engineer designed the car.

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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
What is the rationale for that viewpoint?

I've no problem with trickle charging my $110k (£60k GBP) BMW. Have done so as a matter of course this winter, as I don't use the car too many miles through December time.

I've done it with other cars over the years, including BMW, to prevent any issues.

Can't see the problem, if my driving profile gets near to what I believe is leaving my battery partly charged.

Certainly wouldn't consider selling my car because the battery needs a proper charge. I'd see that as "cutting my nose off, to spite my face".

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      01-29-2014, 02:52 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
I refuse to install a trickle charger on a $70k car.

If my car every fails to start because of a battery issue I'll deal the car on a Acura.

There are absolutely no excuses for mickey mouse engineering on a premium car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
There is no need for a trickle charger on a new car. Period.

Maybe BMW needs to hire a Ford or General Motors or Hyundai engineer to teach them how to design a charging system.

The design fault is unacceptable and BMW owners who rationalize a design faulty by using a trickle charger doesn't help.

Owners should let BMW know the design fault is unacceptable and BMW should acknowledge the fault and upgrade the car's software to permit proper operation.

Driving profile my arse... My 80+ year old mother has a 1996 Nissan which is used maybe twice a week for very short trips and it doesn't require a trickle charger... then again a Nissan engineer designed the car.
That's certainly your prerogative. But I'll bet your BMW does much more than your Ford/GM/Hyundai/Nissan ever did, and more efficiently.

I wouldn't call it mickey mouse engineering, I'd say it's more a matter of ever-increasing demands for electronic gizmos, performance, and efficiency. Every single car ad you see on TV boasts about fuel economy, CAFE regulations are here to stay - every mpg counts, even when you're driving a 4,500lb SUV that does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. They've stepped just a little bit too far and need to dial it back just a bit.

I do agree on your point that BMW needs to step up and acknowledge/fix the issue, but I'm in no hurry to sell or replace my X3 (trickle charger attached).
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      01-29-2014, 03:16 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangsta View Post
That's certainly your prerogative. But I'll bet your BMW does much more than your Ford/GM/Hyundai/Nissan ever did, and more efficiently.

I wouldn't call it mickey mouse engineering, I'd say it's more a matter of ever-increasing demands for electronic gizmos, performance, and efficiency. Every single car ad you see on TV boasts about fuel economy, CAFE regulations are here to stay - every mpg counts, even when you're driving a 4,500lb SUV that does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. They've stepped just a little bit too far and need to dial it back just a bit.

I do agree on your point that BMW needs to step up and acknowledge/fix the issue, but I'm in no hurry to sell or replace my X3 (trickle charger attached).
Well balanced reply. I'd not get rid of my BMW for a few nights a winter on a trickle charge. But like you say, BMW may have gone a bit too far in energy saving.

But they do state there are limitations.

Quote:
Service and Warranty Information 2012
12 Volt Battery Care


If your X3, X5 or X6 is driven only for short distances of less than 10 miles over a prolonged period of time, without an occasional drive at highway speeds, the engine’s charging system will not maintain the battery. Insufficient use of the vehicle could result in short term starting problems and in the long term could damage the battery.

In case your X3, X5 or X6 is not operated for several weeks it is advisable to:
• Consider using a proper trickle charger, following the charger manufacturer’s instructions, to maintain the battery’s state of charge; or
• Consult your BMW SAV center regarding battery removal. Once removed, the battery must be charged and stored in a cool, dry place where it can be protected from freezing.
• If the battery will be stored for over 3 months, it must be recharged every 3 months, or else it will become damaged and useless.
• Please consult with your BMW SAV center for further guidance and information.
If we think it is just BMW with issues pursuing energy efficiency, what about the hybrid and EV boys?

Worth noting even the Japanese designers, the likes of Honda and Toyota are pushing the boundaries and customers are finding battery life is not all it is said to be. Many criticisms of the Honda Civic Hybrid. Winter issues.... sure there are. Even the headline Tesla is not without criticism.

We are in a learning curve, even if we would like to think the manufacturers should have every issue sorted.

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      02-02-2014, 12:08 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
There is no need for a trickle charger on a new car. Period.

Maybe BMW needs to hire a Ford or General Motors or Hyundai engineer to teach them how to design a charging system.

The design fault is unacceptable and BMW owners who rationalize a design faulty by using a trickle charger doesn't help.

Owners should let BMW know the design fault is unacceptable and BMW should acknowledge the fault and upgrade the car's software to permit proper operation.

Driving profile my arse... My 80+ year old mother has a 1996 Nissan which is used maybe twice a week for very short trips and it doesn't require a trickle charger... then again a Nissan engineer designed the car.
Then sell your BMW and go buy a 1996 Nissan. Problem solved. Whining here isn't going to fix it for you.
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      02-02-2014, 01:14 PM   #49
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I aint' whining... just stating a fact. I won't put a battery charger on a new car... it doesn't need one. If my 2013 BMW did need a battery charger I would get rid of the car.

If the windows leaked water would you carry some pails around in the car to collect the water? Of course not... how ridiculous. No one should accept a faulty designed charging system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDude49120 View Post
Then sell your BMW and go buy a 1996 Nissan. Problem solved. Whining here isn't going to fix it for you.
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      02-03-2014, 02:58 PM   #50
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After weeks of temps in the low 20's and below zero, I hadn't gotten any warnings on my X3. Took it out today and for the first time I got a "charge battery" warning when I shut off the vehicle. After it sat for 6 hours it started right up but said battery was discharging while car was off and certain electronics were shut down. I will have had the X3 for three years come July and this is the first time I've gotten the message. So I'm wondering if I push for a new PDM or just throw it on the charger and hope things go better from here on out. Doesn't sit well with me that I have to worry about charging the car every time it gets cold. I live in Michigan for goodness sake. It's cold here for 4 months straight!!

Last edited by Want the thrill; 02-03-2014 at 05:17 PM..
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      02-05-2014, 10:37 PM   #51
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Hey guys ,
I also have the same problem with the low charge of battery.
Now my x3 has emissions light on, which the dealer diagnosed as caused by low battery charge not providing enough voltage for the system.
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      02-06-2014, 09:20 PM   #52
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my service guy said that the sensor are so acute you will get this warning like the temp dropping to zero and the battery not turning out so much juice. THey advised me that if you get it for a couple days straight put it on the charger or get out and find someplace to drive for about a hour or two. Its not a big deal until you get it regularly.
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      02-07-2014, 08:21 PM   #53
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Just an update to previous post for anyone looking for solutions,

I charged the battery with trickle charger overnight and the problem seems to have solved since the emissions light is gone.
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      02-08-2014, 08:26 AM   #54
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I don't agree with not driving enough is the issue. I drove 650 miles averaging 75 mph plenty of time to charge. The temp averaging -12 to 2 degrees. Put a slow charge on it over night will wait to see what happens
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      02-12-2014, 01:01 PM   #55
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Hey Extreme Justice did Bavaria ever come back to you with a solution for this? I have the same problem and tomorrow will be the second time I bring it in to get looked at.
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      01-10-2015, 04:13 PM   #56
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I cannot prove it, but I think it has more to do with a detection issues of some sort, than a low battery. If the battery is cold, it disables a bunch of stuff (note the technical term).

I have had the warning on a few occasions throughout this winter. To test my theory, I never charged the battery, and as soon as the temps go up, the warning goes away and everything is good again. To note, I have never had an issue starting the car even when the temp went down to -35C. The limit temp seems to be around -20C.

When the temp was around -30C, I drove at least 900km in a day and the warning remained. I would assume the battery had enough time to recharge on such a long trip. Then when the temp went up, whaddayya know: Gone.

Finally, in the past week, when I left home in the AM, temp was at -25C and as soon as I reached work, the warning showed up. The temp went up throughout the day to -8C and when I left in the afternoon, the warning was gone, everything worked with the car staying in the parking lot for 12 hours. I doubt it recharged itself...
This is puzzling as hell to me. And my dealer installs trickle charger on every car they deliver, so they know there is an issue somehow. But even when I had the warning last year and I used the charger overnight, it would remove the warning, but it would always come back on cold days as soon as I reached work. So that didn't work either.
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      01-10-2015, 05:17 PM   #57
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Last year several people came to the conclusion that it was the power distribution module causing the problem. Moisture gets in it and freezes in really cold temps and then the warnings come up. BMW said they were working on a fix last year. Who knows if they ever really did anything about it.
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      01-10-2015, 05:32 PM   #58
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I had this power drain while off message this morning. Temp in the upper 20's.

Battery should have been fully charged. I had just driven nearly 200 miles the night before, and turned off the car when I locked the car.
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      01-11-2015, 01:34 PM   #59
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Some might find the following helpful for this thread. I will probably use Kelvin rather then centigrade or Fahrenheit in my future threads
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