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      08-22-2011, 08:36 PM   #1
bigsmoke08
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28i vs 35i IRL Engine Comparo....

Let me start by saying I love the twin turbo 35 engines, truly a phenomenal piece of technology HOWEVER I'm wondering what the real life usage is with all that power...

I previously owned a 2001 330i, which was the best car I've ever owned, got nothing but 5 stars from all the automotive press and did 0-60 in just under 6 seconds.

Power was instantly available, could pass anytime, and whenever I really pushed the vehicle, it responded in spades.

Now that is the same speed of the X3 28i that I am now considering ordering, and feeling bad about! I'm telling myself I should really get the x3 35i b/c it's just that much faster, more torque etc

But then I remember when driving the 330i asking myself "how could I possibly be able to drive any faster?" (at least on city 35 mph roads or 65 mph highways). So what gives? Wont I then be totally happy with the 28 engine.

And seriously, I'm now in a 09 x3 30, not a very quick vehicle, and when I drop that into Sport mode, there's really no one on a city road, who's not being incredibly foolish, that could pass me, take me, get anywhere I want to go faster!

I mean with a 65 mph limit, you really can't go responsibly more than 85 or 90, and even that not consistently. You can't pull away from a stop light that much quicker without hitting someone in front of you. so what gives??

Any thoughts?

Don't want to start a flame war, but seriously, what are folks doing NON TRACK with all that 35 turbo power??
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      08-22-2011, 08:53 PM   #2
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be happy with your decision...you shouldn't need others to help you justify it
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      08-22-2011, 10:16 PM   #3
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My 35i is fairly quick, but I'd love something like the reputed 449 HP the future X3M may have. That might be almost enough.

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"They asked me if it had enough power then and I said, "No, It will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear."" - Mark Donohue as quoted in THE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE pp. 292
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      08-22-2011, 11:54 PM   #4
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I am hoping it doesn't come out too soon. Don't want to sell and lose $.
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      08-23-2011, 12:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsmoke08 View Post
Let me start by saying I love the twin turbo 35 engines, truly a phenomenal piece of technology HOWEVER I'm wondering what the real life usage is with all that power...

But then I remember when driving the 330i asking myself "how could I possibly be able to drive any faster?" (at least on city 35 mph roads or 65 mph highways). So what gives? Wont I then be totally happy with the 28 engine.

Any thoughts?

Don't want to start a flame war, but seriously, what are folks doing NON TRACK with all that 35 turbo power??
I understand your very rational position. You are right that the 35i has no real advantage in normal city/suburban driving. None at all. And if I'd never driven the 35i I would be very content with the 28i. It's interesting because I would say about my 35i what you said about your great 330i. Plenty of power always available, effortless passing at any speed, ability to comfortably cruise a Wyoming two lane hwy at 90 mph for and hour and a half. I've never had a car with such an excess of power, rock stable at speed AND pretty good gas mileage as well. I'm a little worried the extra power is going to get me into trouble. It's too tempting to punch it and just fly away at 100+ mph in seconds... effortlessly. I'd only do this in a safe situation, out of the city, open road but still... I have got to chill or rent a 4 cylinder Hyundai for a month.
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      08-23-2011, 02:21 AM   #6
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While the 28i is a great car and plenty fast, fast enough to get you into trouble here are a few things to take into consideration when comparing to the 35i.

1. While 0-60 times and HP/torque figures are a great indication for the performance of a vehicle you also need to take into consideration other factors such as the rpm range. The difference between the two cars is that the 28i produces 221 ft-lb @ 2750-4000 rpm and the 35i produces 300 ft-lb @ 1300-5000. Not only does the 35i produce more HP/torque than the 28i but you can access all this power 1450 rpm sooner and hold it in this range for 1k rpm longer.

How this translates into the real world is that when driving in "normal" mode the X3 cruises around the 1200-1500 rpm range and upshifts between 2-3k rpm. When driving in "sport" the X3 cruises somewhere in the 2k range and upshifts between 3-4k rpm; sorry for not be able to give the exact rpm, I can't remember it off the top of my head.

What this means is that the 35i will almost always be in it's peak torque range when driving in "normal" mode and is always in this range when driving in "sport". The 28i will only be in it's peak torque range when driving in "sport" and when driving in "normal" by the time the 28i reaches 2750 rpm the X3 is about to or already has upshifted to the next gear. According to BMW the 35i also gets 1 mpg more on highways but I'm sure results vary.

2. Some items come standard on the 35i while being an added option on the 28i. The 35i comes standard with xenons ($900), adaptive light control, chrome exhaust tips, and upgraded wheels. In addition when adding the SAP the 35i gets the sport auto transmission (gear selector is different) and paddle shifters, both options are unavailable for the 28i.

3. When taking into account the added options for the 28i that come standard on the 35i the $4300 difference becomes reduced to something like $2000-2500. While the extra power isn't needed, $2000-2500 seems like a very good deal for 60 more HP & 79 more ft-lb torque.

Plus the resell value on the 35i might be better than the 28i due to the fact that the 28i's NA engine is being replaced by the turbocharged N20 sometime soon. The 35i might have trouble competing for resell if the 35d eventually makes it to the US but not all Americans are too keen with diesels.

PS: Sorry for the long post, I suck horribly trying to write short posts.
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      08-23-2011, 02:26 AM   #7
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+1 Marmik

I wouldn't bother with the 4 bang rental. As soon as you get back in your 35i...the infection will return...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsmoke08 View Post
And seriously, I'm now in a 09 x3 30, not a very quick vehicle, and when I drop that into Sport mode, there's really no one on a city road, who's not being incredibly foolish, that could pass me, take me, get anywhere I want to go faster!
This sounds silly to me...the incredibly foolish trying to overtake...foolish? We all want to think that...but it just ain't so. There will ALWAYS be someone faster...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsmoke08 View Post
Don't want to start a flame war, but seriously, what are folks doing NON TRACK with all that 35 turbo power??
@125 mph. This is fast for me behind the wheel...my first BMW and I already want more. I am learning to respect the power.
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      08-23-2011, 06:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyu View Post
While the 28i is a great car and plenty fast, fast enough to get you into trouble here are a few things to take into consideration when comparing to the 35i.

1. While 0-60 times and HP/torque figures are a great indication for the performance of a vehicle you also need to take into consideration other factors such as the rpm range. The difference between the two cars is that the 28i produces 221 ft-lb @ 2750-4000 rpm and the 35i produces 300 ft-lb @ 1300-5000. Not only does the 35i produce more HP/torque than the 28i but you can access all this power 1450 rpm sooner and hold it in this range for 1k rpm longer.

How this translates into the real world is that when driving in "normal" mode the X3 cruises around the 1200-1500 rpm range and upshifts between 2-3k rpm. When driving in "sport" the X3 cruises somewhere in the 2k range and upshifts between 3-4k rpm; sorry for not be able to give the exact rpm, I can't remember it off the top of my head.

What this means is that the 35i will almost always be in it's peak torque range when driving in "normal" mode and is always in this range when driving in "sport". The 28i will only be in it's peak torque range when driving in "sport" and when driving in "normal" by the time the 28i reaches 2750 rpm the X3 is about to or already has upshifted to the next gear. According to BMW the 35i also gets 1 mpg more on highways but I'm sure results vary.

2. Some items come standard on the 35i while being an added option on the 28i. The 35i comes standard with xenons ($900), adaptive light control, chrome exhaust tips, and upgraded wheels. In addition when adding the SAP the 35i gets the sport auto transmission (gear selector is different) and paddle shifters, both options are unavailable for the 28i.

3. When taking into account the added options for the 28i that come standard on the 35i the $4300 difference becomes reduced to something like $2000-2500. While the extra power isn't needed, $2000-2500 seems like a very good deal for 60 more HP & 79 more ft-lb torque.

Plus the resell value on the 35i might be better than the 28i due to the fact that the 28i's NA engine is being replaced by the turbocharged N20 sometime soon. The 35i might have trouble competing for resell if the 35d eventually makes it to the US but not all Americans are too keen with diesels.

PS: Sorry for the long post, I suck horribly trying to write short posts.

thanks for these thoughts. very helpful and spot on. sigh

all this boards seems to do is get me to spend more $$!

<hehe>

here's a question:

28 sport vs 35 non sport?

what's the better driver?
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      08-23-2011, 06:59 AM   #9
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I went from a 330i vert to a 335I vert. When on narrow UK rural roads the car when pushed feels like it's in a video game, probably this will be worse with an X3 with electric PS. I have to back off and control myself. On highways the effortless performance is wonderful.

A lot depends on the driving you do and the type of driver you are. I find that when driving fast the greatest enjoyment comes when I'm pushing the car close to its limit. The 335i is too fast to be driven close to it's limit frequently. The most fun car I even drove was an MGB - desperately slow nowadays with little grip but the feedback from the car and sheer reward for driving it well was fantastic. So for me sheer performance is attractive but not the whole story.
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      08-23-2011, 10:10 AM   #10
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You can never have too much money, too many friends, or too much horsepower.
I do a lot of highway driving and where the extra HP and torque really come into play is passing on the highway, 2 lane road etc. Three times a month I drive I95 from Phila to southern Virginia. The idiots in the USA don't know how to drive. You'd think that there was poison gas in the right lane! I can't get enough passing power. Not only that, but the 35i gets better gas mileage on the highway! 19/25 vs 19/26. THe best of both worlds.
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      08-23-2011, 10:54 AM   #11
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Road rage much? There are "idiots" everywhere...not just in the USA...so not much credibility for you there. For me, the power comes in handy down south in single lane roads, when I want to overtake slower traffic stuck in a convoy. Not that you couldn't do it in a 28i, but a 35i will do it faster.
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      08-23-2011, 12:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Road rage much?
Not at all. Nothing good comes of that. I don't have the time to get into it with other drivers. That just makes the trip longer and more stressful.
Quote:
For me, the power comes in handy down south in single lane roads, when I want to overtake slower traffic stuck in a convoy
I hope you mean 2 lane roads.
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      08-23-2011, 01:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyu View Post
While the 28i is a great car and plenty fast, fast enough to get you into trouble here are a few things to take into consideration when comparing to the 35i.

1. While 0-60 times and HP/torque figures are a great indication for the performance of a vehicle you also need to take into consideration other factors such as the rpm range. The difference between the two cars is that the 28i produces 221 ft-lb @ 2750-4000 rpm and the 35i produces 300 ft-lb @ 1300-5000. Not only does the 35i produce more HP/torque than the 28i but you can access all this power 1450 rpm sooner and hold it in this range for 1k rpm longer.

How this translates into the real world is that when driving in "normal" mode the X3 cruises around the 1200-1500 rpm range and upshifts between 2-3k rpm. When driving in "sport" the X3 cruises somewhere in the 2k range and upshifts between 3-4k rpm; sorry for not be able to give the exact rpm, I can't remember it off the top of my head.

What this means is that the 35i will almost always be in it's peak torque range when driving in "normal" mode and is always in this range when driving in "sport". The 28i will only be in it's peak torque range when driving in "sport" and when driving in "normal" by the time the 28i reaches 2750 rpm the X3 is about to or already has upshifted to the next gear. According to BMW the 35i also gets 1 mpg more on highways but I'm sure results vary.
.....
Another +1.

FWIW, we did not test drive the 28i, went directly to the 35i when we ordered. This was based on being spoiled by the turbo engine in our '08 535Xi compared to the non turbo '06 330Xi and '06 X3 vehicles we previously owned. Not an apples to apples comparison, but for example the difference in responsiveness between the 535Xi and the 330Xi was very noticeable and the 330Xi was no slouch.

Each peson will have their own preferences and priorities. I've read posts from people who prefer lower powered non turbo cars because they feel its more fun to rev the engine / change gears / extract performance out of them.

Bruce
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      08-23-2011, 02:43 PM   #14
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i got a 28 thinking its good enough...

after 1 week, wished i got a 35.
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      08-23-2011, 03:09 PM   #15
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I tested both, and got the 28i.
I’m quite happy with it and haven’t regretted my choice for a moment.
My stoplight drag racing days are well behind me and the 28i gives me plenty of power when I so desire.

To each their own, there is no “right” answer here.

As to the question of 28i sport vs. 35i non-sport, I would go with the 28i sport.
My only regret in my choice is not going with the sport option. I find that in severe crosswinds I would like the ability to stiffen up the chassis a bit.
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      08-23-2011, 10:35 PM   #16
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Two points: 1. just returned from an 1100 kms (682mi) trip. Mostly hiway, four lane divided, and some two lane. The 35i has all the power I ever needed, and cruising in the 120 to 140 range is quiet, stable and a joy. Lots more power available if I need it. With the 8spd tranny, it's only turning about 2000rpms at 120km/h (74mph).

and 2. my previous car was an E90 M3, 28i wasn't going to cut it.

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      08-24-2011, 09:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardew View Post
I hope you mean 2 lane roads.
Nope. Single lane...the ones that go one way (no oncoming traffic) with few areas to pass due to the width of the road. When an opening arrives...35i has the power to quickly squeeze around before it narrows again and you end up in a ditch or the woods. Multiple lane roads are alot easier to pass on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
The 35i has all the power I ever needed, and cruising in the 120 to 140 range is quiet, stable and a joy.
This is good to hear. How does the steering feel at those uppers speeds? Sometimes I feel like I am playing on my ps3 and get way too comfortable...that's what worries me. Can't wait to push it faster on my next trip.
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      08-24-2011, 01:33 PM   #18
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How does the steering feel at those uppers speeds?

Feels just fine to me; but I am not an expert. It's responsive, yet not "twitchy". I would say it's on par with my previous M3 steering feel, driven normally. I was running with all systems on "normal" and did not have the Sport or Sport + on.
I see lots of complaining about the new X3 steering feel on here, but I don't find it a problem at all. I am happy with it, but maybe I'm not enough of an "enthusiast" to offer that opinion.
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      08-24-2011, 05:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
... With the 8spd tranny, it's only turning about 2000rpms at 120km/h (74mph).

and 2. my previous car was an E90 M3, 28i wasn't going to cut it.

FYI - in case anyone is interested.
The 35i with standard diameter tires (751 revs/mile) will be turning 2123 RPM at 120kph (74.57 mph) in 8th gear. My X3 speedometer reads about 2.5% high with new tires and that seems to be typical of most new X3's. (77 mph (indicated) is actually just over 75 mph. As the tires wear the error will increase.

A X3 will top out at 3700 RPM in 8th gear (a true 130 mph or 209 kph) and with the Sports Activity Package it's limited to 4246 RPM in 8th and 5350 RPM in 7th gear (240 kph or 149 mph).

Would seriously advise against verifying this on the street, however!

Last edited by Lotus7; 08-24-2011 at 05:28 PM..
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      08-24-2011, 05:56 PM   #20
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Lotus - I have 19" MSport wheels, does that change the rpms much?
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      08-24-2011, 06:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
How does the steering feel at those uppers speeds?

Feels just fine to me; but I am not an expert. It's responsive, yet not "twitchy". I would say it's on par with my previous M3 steering feel, driven normally. I was running with all systems on "normal" and did not have the Sport or Sport + on.
I see lots of complaining about the new X3 steering feel on here, but I don't find it a problem at all. I am happy with it, but maybe I'm not enough of an "enthusiast" to offer that opinion.
My previous vehicles : 84 CJ7, 95 D90, 01 Disco2: All very fun trucks to drive. This being my first BMW...I have nothing else to compare it too. The steering in the F25 ( I have DHP ) is more responsive yet feels like I am steering air. Not really complaining...just the feeling that I shouldn't sneeze @ 140mph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
A X3 will top out at 3700 RPM in 8th gear (a true 130 mph or 209 kph) and with the Sports Activity Package it's limited to 4246 RPM in 8th and 5350 RPM in 7th gear (240 kph or 149 mph).
Is this the case for both the 28i and the 35i...149 mph with SAP or MS? What if they were not limited? Lotus, I sense that your brain's processing power far exceeds that of us mere mortals.
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      08-24-2011, 09:49 PM   #22
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Lotus - I have 19" MSport wheels, does that change the rpms much?
No.

The 245/45-19 and 275/40-19 PZeros have a spec of 754 revs/mile as opposed to 751 revs/mile for the 245/50-18's that I used for the initial calculation. the difference means the 19 inch tires will be turning 0.3% faster (2129 RPM vs. 2123 RPM at 75 mph) an insignificant difference that's less then the difference between a new tire and a slightly worn one.
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