[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by clivem2

Bad luck. The engine must have frightened the steering. Seriously really bad luck, you must be really pissed by now (meant with the UK meaning!),

Yep well pissed off, it drove great and the economy was 39MPG at motorway speeds, but what if this had gone wrong at 75MPH!!!!!, dread to think.

[JOHNBMWM5]

I had the back of the wheels painted black gloss inside I hope it shows up on this picture.
I will post good ones IF it comes back, if it's not right they can keep it.

[DEVM]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

I had the back of the wheels painted black gloss inside I hope it shows up on this picture.
I will post good ones IF it comes back, if it's not right they can keep it.

Great looking car! I choose Carbon-Black, but this red colour is really nice as well. I'm sorry to hear of your problems. BMW should really look into these quality problems. At least before i get mine. It CANNOT happen that a new car has such problems. It's not how i have experienced BMW so far.

Good luck and i hope you can enjoy a good ride soon. At least you have some other nice looking cars in your garage :-)

Cheers

[ricardoyak]

My test drive over a long weekend and about 400miles was great, but there seem to be lots of people with serious issues. Now getting worried about the reliability of what should be a great car.

Top of the probs seem to be:

Steering failure

Rattles and squeaks - trim, seats, sunroof

Battery failure

Other electronic failures - dampers, satnav

I know the Internet will bias towards bad reviews but there are real BMW fans on this site who are perhaps more willing to "cut some slack".

I am suspecting a combination of:

Cost cutting - killed MB for a number of years

Poor final QC - more reliance on in-process QA

My new car has a list price of just over £49k - I expect granite like build quality for that money.

It is sad to read so many disappointed people.

[JOHNBMWM5]

UPDATE: Car on a transported to listers , they are trying to say the car did NOT have a fault on it before I was handed it, butThe day before it had only 5 miles on it when I got it the car had 14 miles!!
It took them 6 hours to fit a cable ( so they say) for my road angle now that really is hard to believe.
My wife and I hung around for the whole time, then when I got home and turned off the engine and re- started it the warning came up and never cleared!!!.
Call me a cynic but I believe the fault was there all along.

PS) pictures in the ; on the photo thread "X3 M Sport owners"

[sfax]

Originally Posted by ricardoyak

My test drive over a long weekend and about 400miles was great, but there seem to be lots of people with serious issues. Now getting worried about the reliability of what should be a great car.

Top of the probs seem to be:

Steering failure

Rattles and squeaks - trim, seats, sunroof

Battery failure

Other electronic failures - dampers, satnav

I know the Internet will bias towards bad reviews but there are real BMW fans on this site who are perhaps more willing to "cut some slack".

I am suspecting a combination of:

Cost cutting - killed MB for a number of years

Poor final QC - more reliance on in-process QA

My new car has a list price of just over £49k - I expect granite like build quality for that money.

It is sad to read so many disappointed people.

No major problems or rattles or wind noise with mine 9 months in. Just the odd niggle. See this thread for a recent discussion:

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605400

Go to tripadvisor and put in a hotel you've stayed in and loved. Now read all the bad reviews. When things go wrong, people post. When everything's OK, most people don't even know this site exists.

And re. £49k, it's actually £31.5k for a base model SE where essentially everything is the same except the engine and the options. If you add over £18k worth of engine and options you don't increase the build quality of a what is essentially a £30k-ish car. If you want to go up a level, you need to get an X5 or a 5 series. I'm not saying adding loads of options is wrong as I added about £12k of options to mine. Just making the point about price vs build quality.

[BIMMER UK 76]

All car brands no matter how expensive have warranties

[dnw]

Originally Posted by sfax

And re. £49k, it's actually £31.5k for a base model SE where essentially everything is the same except the engine and the options. If you add over £18k worth of engine and options you don't increase the build quality of a what is essentially a £30k-ish car.

I agree with this... sort of . I was actually originally looking at an X1 when I ordered my current Q5 but picking the top engine and adding the toys turned a mid 20k car into a mid 30k car and that just didn't add up in my head, for exactly the reasons you state. When I came to order my X3, I was in a similar position, its a 30-something-k car which I've speced similarly to ricardoyak to a list of £47k. However, on this occasion an X5 didn't make sense as the model is approaching the end of its lifespan and a 5-series, though a step up in quality, isn't really what I wanted. In the end, a great deal sorted out the price problem enough for me to take the plunge.

..but here's the sort of: I don't think manufacturers like BMW project their profit margins based on everyone ordering the base model. They probably figure on an average a little higher, with a few orders coming in under their target ASP and a lot more coming at or over. Thus, when trying to equate ASP and build quality, I think it fairer to reckon on a few k over the base model.

That said, its still easy to add 10-15k to that with no return in quality!

best
DNW

[sfax]

Originally Posted by dnw

..but here's the sort of: I don't think manufacturers like BMW project their profit margins based on everyone ordering the base model. They probably figure on an average a little higher, with a few orders coming in under their target ASP and a lot more coming at or over. Thus, when trying to equate ASP and build quality, I think it fairer to reckon on a few k over the base model.

That said, its still easy to add 10-15k to that with no return in quality!

best
DNW

Fair comment. I agree with this too. But I would also add that applies to most manufacturers and models so base with base or base + 5k options with base + 5k options both act as good comparators. But to further muddy the waters BMW don't give that much as standard compared to others * and more expensive models have more as standard like the X5 with xenons and electric seats

* folding mirrors for example!

[ricardoyak]

I agree with the recent comments on base price v. quality and the fact that my extras frenzy doesn't impact the quality of the base product. One could even argue that more bits means more things to go wrong!

However, some of the defects would be unacceptable in a car half the price. My wife drives a Honda Jazz it is rock solid. Interior styling is a disaster and plastics are horrible, but it doesn't fall apart, rattle or breakdown.

What I can't understand is how any company who trades on being aspirational and premium can afford to let quality go at any price. It should be built in to the whole culture of the organisation.

I am reminded of a lecture by W. Edwards Deming (one of the founding fathers of modern production processes who was instrumental in building the Japanese auto industry after WWII). IBM once asked a Japanese chip supplier to provide chips with no more than one defect in 1000. The supplier sent IBM two boxes one of 10,000 chips the other with 10. The supplier also enclosed a letter stating that they didn't understand why IBM would want the defective ones.

Sermon over! A bit off topic too!

[fedinand]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

I had the back of the wheels painted black gloss inside I hope it shows up on this picture.
I will post good ones IF it comes back, if it's not right they can keep it.

OK, third pic down - the very happy gentleman looking at the X3..is that you ...whoever that is looks extremely happy to be gazing upon the X3

[sfax]

Originally Posted by ricardoyak

I agree with the recent comments on base price v. quality and the fact that my extras frenzy doesn't impact the quality of the base product. One could even argue that more bits means more things to go wrong!

However, some of the defects would be unacceptable in a car half the price. My wife drives a Honda Jazz it is rock solid. Interior styling is a disaster and plastics are horrible, but it doesn't fall apart, rattle or breakdown.

What I can't understand is how any company who trades on being aspirational and premium can afford to let quality go at any price. It should be built in to the whole culture of the organisation.

I am reminded of a lecture by W. Edwards Deming (one of the founding fathers of modern production processes who was instrumental in building the Japanese auto industry after WWII). IBM once asked a Japanese chip supplier to provide chips with no more than one defect in 1000. The supplier sent IBM two boxes one of 10,000 chips the other with 10. The supplier also enclosed a letter stating that they didn't understand why IBM would want the defective ones.

Sermon over! A bit off topic too!

Take your point but I think it's too much to ask these days. Cars are incredibly complex and if you make 50,000 X3s you're going to have some component defects (some sourced and assembled globally) and some build defects on some of them - hence the reports on forums.

I do think some of the QA is poor such as paint defects making it out of the factory. I've not experienced any of these major problems with my X3 and it's 9 months old and done about 7,000 miles. I know just from the noise my X3 makes when you close the door it's a better build quality than many other lesser cars

[BIMMER UK 76]

Ricardo, I think plenty of honda jazz cars have rattled and fallen to bits

My 3 BMWs have been without a single warranty claim including my X3 thats just hit 9k miles

[dnw]

I just wish BMW would match Audi for build quality. Best engines in the world + state of the art tech + build quality would really be an unbeatable combo.

I don't want to turn this into an Audi vs BMW thread and I know both brands have had their ups and downs with certain models but as a 1 year owner of a Q5 that I'm soon to replace with an X3, I hope you will consider me reasonably unbiased.... thus I can honestly say the Q5 build quality is markedly better than the X3. I wouldn't say massively so- but noticeably so. I sat the 30d I borrowed for a morning next to my Q5 on the drive and went around opening and closing doors, fiddling with trim, playing with the shifter, rocking on seats etc and the Q5 won on every count. sfax if you like the sound of the X3 doors you would love the Audi, my other half commented - "door closing sounds a bit cheap!"

I think I've mentioned these before but there are a couple of bits on the X3 that I found a total embarrassment and I assume they will fix in the LCI when it comes along in 3 years or so. One is that little storage compartment under the wheel and the other is that awful pull out boot cover. Neither of those belong in a car of this class.

With that said, I am happy in my choice to change and I will be every time I put my foot down or play with the pro nav its just a shame you can't have it all!

[sfax]

Originally Posted by dnw

I just wish BMW would match Audi for build quality. Best engines in the world + state of the art tech + build quality would really be an unbeatable combo.

I don't want to turn this into an Audi vs BMW thread and I know both brands have had their ups and downs with certain models but as a 1 year owner of a Q5 that I'm soon to replace with an X3, I hope you will consider me reasonably unbiased.... thus I can honestly say the Q5 build quality is markedly better than the X3. I wouldn't say massively so- but noticeably so. I sat the 30d I borrowed for a morning next to my Q5 on the drive and went around opening and closing doors, fiddling with trim, playing with the shifter, rocking on seats etc and the Q5 won on every count. sfax if you like the sound of the X3 doors you would love the Audi, my other half commented - "door closing sounds a bit cheap!"

I think I've mentioned these before but there are a couple of bits on the X3 that I found a total embarrassment and I assume they will fix in the LCI when it comes along in 3 years or so. One is that little storage compartment under the wheel and the other is that awful pull out boot cover. Neither of those belong in a car of this class.

With that said, I am happy in my choice to change and I will be every time I put my foot down or play with the pro nav its just a shame you can't have it all!

I did test drive a few Q5s and my brother has a 2010 A6. I didn't think there was any real step up in quality in either of these to be honest but haven't really spent enough time in them. I prefer the looks of the Q5 (albeit has to be black or white with S-Line and 19/20" alloys) but when it comes to driving there is no contest IMO. Particularly disliked the ride and found the automatic transmission to be a bit slow to react too but again, I didn't spend all that much time in them, just enough to convince me to get an X3 instead and no regrets there. Can't remember but I think the 2.0L Q5 in diesel is less powerful too. And they're slightly more on tax/emissions. Also much prefer BMW's DRLs

[BIMMER UK 76]

Both the 2l diesels in the Q5 are 0-60mph in about 3 days, the co2 and mpg figures are also derisory compared to the X3 20d. The Q5 is a looker but some way behind the bmw to meet my criteria (no even mentioned driving dynamics)

I hope they address issues and use better materials for the facelift but suspect its a step up to base/mid spec X5 vs bling X3 35d for my next ride or perhaps audi will design a d engine capable of meeting my requirements

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by sfax

Take your point but I think it's too much to ask these days. Cars are incredibly complex and if you make 50,000 X3s you're going to have some component defects (some sourced and assembled globally) and some build defects on some of them - hence the reports on forums.

I do think some of the QA is poor such as paint defects making it out of the factory. I've not experienced any of these major problems with my X3 and it's 9 months old and done about 7,000 miles. I know just from the noise my X3 makes when you close the door it's a better build quality than many other lesser cars

How many people, would you say, though, have had two X3s with essentially the same options in less than one year, and on both of those X3s, the same problems arose? Well I'm one of them, and my luck isn't that bad in life. This is all about quality control and ill-advised trust in machines. I don't care what it does for BMW's ad campaign; I don't want middle and lower-class Americans building foreign cars they will never have the opportunity to own. I may as well have ordered coffee and actually asked the waiter to spit in it before serving it to me, twice.

Years ago, the reason why I bought an X5 over the original X3 was because the X3 felt and looked like a toy. Now, the X3 looks like a well built vehicle, but this car feels and comes apart like Barbie's Dream Daytona Roadster. I don't know what I'm going to do about this. I love me some BMWs, but I don't love this. I'm considering giving this car up for a BMW that isn't about utility. A BMW that isn't cost-chopped, one that isn't built on an outgoing chassis, and one I can trust. I'm disappointed that because this car is supposed to speak to the masses who buy a label with no options because they can't afford a real piece of the BMW experience, my driving experience has to suffer; my money poorly spent; my time wasted on this blasted piece of shit TWICE IN NINE MONTHS. I don't like driving this car anymore. WHERE IS THE JOY OF WHICH YOU SPEAK, BMW NA?

BMW has one more chance to fix this car and make it as perfect as the model that was built for the marketing launch. If it does not exceed my expectations, I will be buying a different BMW with the reimbursement I receive for the number of lease payments I've already made (since February...not to mention that I didn't have an X3 for seven straight weeks this summer while waiting for the second-chance-turned-last-ditch-effort replacement). I'll get a BMW that isn't so...pedestrian, and I'll damn well feel good about it or some executives in New Jersey will be ripped some new assholes.

Excuse me if I come across as rude, especially to prospective buyers and expecting/current owners. Your cars may be fine, but this isn't for me. This isn't worth it.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by fedinand

OK, third pic down - the very happy gentleman looking at the X3..is that you ...whoever that is looks extremely happy to be gazing upon the X3

NO thats "Dave" Sales manager.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

NO thats "Dave" Sales manager.

So he could be the one that said, get that car working so the punter signs for it, we can't have a refused car on our books.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by clivem2

So he could be the one that said, get that car working so the punter signs for it, we can't have a refused car on our books.

This could very well be the case, but I would not stand up in court and say it.
The dealership has contacted BMW Tech Dept, they in turn have advised "Change Control Module ONLY", the spares dept can not obtain part numbers for the Control module OR Steering rack!!, they are not on the system they say......So nothing ordered and no work being done!
To be fare the dealership can't work with no tools, it's down to BMW UK, I have advised them of the situation this morning, and that I am now considering Legal action as the situation is unacceptable.

[sfax]

Originally Posted by juddholland

How many people, would you say, though, have had two X3s with essentially the same options in less than one year, and on both of those X3s, the same problems arose? Well I'm one of them, and my luck isn't that bad in life. This is all about quality control and ill-advised trust in machines. I don't care what it does for BMW's ad campaign; I don't want middle and lower-class Americans building foreign cars they will never have the opportunity to own. I may as well have ordered coffee and actually asked the waiter to spit in it before serving it to me, twice.

Years ago, the reason why I bought an X5 over the original X3 was because the X3 felt and looked like a toy. Now, the X3 looks like a well built vehicle, but this car feels and comes apart like Barbie's Dream Daytona Roadster. I don't know what I'm going to do about this. I love me some BMWs, but I don't love this. I'm considering giving this car up for a BMW that isn't about utility. A BMW that isn't cost-chopped, one that isn't built on an outgoing chassis, and one I can trust. I'm disappointed that because this car is supposed to speak to the masses who buy a label with no options because they can't afford a real piece of the BMW experience, my driving experience has to suffer; my money poorly spent; my time wasted on this blasted piece of shit TWICE IN NINE MONTHS. I don't like driving this car anymore. WHERE IS THE JOY OF WHICH YOU SPEAK, BMW NA?

BMW has one more chance to fix this car and make it as perfect as the model that was built for the marketing launch. If it does not exceed my expectations, I will be buying a different BMW with the reimbursement I receive for the number of lease payments I've already made (since February...not to mention that I didn't have an X3 for seven straight weeks this summer while waiting for the second-chance-turned-last-ditch-effort replacement). I'll get a BMW that isn't so...pedestrian, and I'll damn well feel good about it or some executives in New Jersey will be ripped some new assholes.

Excuse me if I come across as rude, especially to prospective buyers and expecting/current owners. Your cars may be fine, but this isn't for me. This isn't worth it.

I know you've had a particularly bad time Judd and can understand your frustration, particularly as you've had 2 new X3s and both have had problems. I would probably feel differently if I had experienced this. Please keep us posted on what happens

[married w/X3]

"I don't want middle and lower-class Americans building foreign cars they will never have the opportunity to own."

Are there rich or well-to-do people working on assembly lines? And if so, is the quality of the product better? Offensive remark.