[Iowa X3]

So I bought a 2013 BMW X3 28i a couple of months ago from a used car dealership that is not specific to BMW. It has a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty, and currently has about 34,000 miles on it. Soon after purchase, I noticed that it would puff some blue exhaust upon cold start up. I never got a chance to see this prior to purchase as I never got to see it start up cold after sitting for many hours.

Either way, I knew right away it was a seal leaking oil from the turbo, but there is no impact on its performance otherwise so far as I can tell. I finally got the time to take it in to the local BMW stealership this week and they confirmed after looking at it that there is oil leaking from the turbo toward the intercooler. They didn't have any maintenance records in the BMW systems, so the service adviser pulled a Carfax but was only able to find one oil change on it, and that was from when the dealership I bought it from got ahold of it at 32,000 miles.

Long story short, after I insisted that their local BMW rep look at it during a visit yesterday, the service adviser called today and told me they weren't going to be able to repair it under warranty unless I can find record of at least one oil change prior to the 32,000 mile mark. I told him that was garbage and that we all know that the vehicle didn't go 32,000 miles without an oil change. Not only that, but we're talking about a leaking seal, not a locked up friction bearing in the turbo, crank, rods, etc. I'd listen to BMW's argument if this was a seized up turbo, but it isn't....it's a seal meant to restrain oil, not utilize it.

This was a fleet vehicle, and I knew it going in to the purchase. Problem is I don't know which fleet owned it, Carfax doesn't tell me and it isn't on the title. All I know is the fleet registered it in Georgia when it was brand new, and now I have it up here in Iowa.

What can I do with these guys? This is a $4,000 repair. I've already submitted a complaint to BMW NA and they've assigned a caseworker to it, but they haven't done anything with it in the 4 full business days they've had the issue in their court, only an acknowledgement e-mail confirming it has been assigned to the caseworker. Any advice on how I can escalate this issue with them and get them to take action? TIA.

[lovec1990]

Iowa X3: find that record they want if you want your issue repaired under warranty its a thing some people dont get it if you dont go by warranty rules you lose it.

[MattUK]

Sadly i agree you need to find proof it was serviced otherwise the warranty on parts covered by a service could be void

[Iowa X3]

Originally Posted by MattUK

Sadly i agree you need to find proof it was serviced otherwise the warranty on parts covered by a service could be void

I wouldn't have a problem with them requiring maintenance records if the turbo itself had seized up, but it hasn't. The bearings within the turbo require sufficient oil viscosity to perform. However, the job of the seals within the turbo is to restrain oil, and viscosity is not an issue. The seals should be able to hold back any liquid, including water. There is fresh oil in it now and that fresh oil is being leaked, prior oil viscosity levels have no impact. It's a defective part.

This is akin to them asking me to provide proof that the brake fluid was flushed in order to cover a defective wheel hub assembly. Or requiring proof of oil changes to replace fuel injectors. There is no correlation but manufacturers get away with warranty denials because most car owners don't know any better.

[lovec1990]

Iowa X3 you are missing a point here that is you have no proof that oil was changed so this means you are braking rules of warranty and becouse of that you are not entitled for this repair under warranty

[MattUK]

If you only got it a couple months back take it back where you got it and get them to rectify it

[plymjack]

Originally Posted by MattUK

If you only got it a couple months back take it back where you got it and get them to rectify it

Would seem the only solution without the records being available, if it was not serviced you cannot expect a "free" repair.

[kevink1]

Which raises a question. Assume you always had your vehicle serviced at a BMW dealership. Sold it 3 years later, and the person who bought it didn't know what dealership. Will that be in the system? Go to the closest dealership, will they have this information?

Especially with the "Free" maintenance for 4 years. Why NOT go to the dealership for oil changes unless it was 3 hours away and you didn't want to take the time?

[Iowa X3]

Originally Posted by kevink1

Which raises a question. Assume you always had your vehicle serviced at a BMW dealership. Sold it 3 years later, and the person who bought it didn't know what dealership. Will that be in the system? Go to the closest dealership, will they have this information?

My understanding is that the records stay in the BMW overall system under the VIN so that it can be serviced by any BMW dealership.

Especially with the "Free" maintenance for 4 years. Why NOT go to the dealership for oil changes unless it was 3 hours away and you didn't want to take the time?

Totally agree with you here. However, with this being a vehicle that was owned by a fleet for the first 30,000 miles of its life, that fleet probably performed its own maintenance on their vehicles. As silly as it sounds, when you're working with that many vehicles, its cheaper and easier just to do the work quickly in house. I'm working on figuring out which fleet owned it so I can check to see if they have the records, but that is proving to be a challenge.

For those here believing the dealership is in the right in denying this warranty claim.....do you believe that this (or any) vehicle went 30,000 miles without an oil change? I've worked in the automotive industry for over a decade and I can tell you it would be next to impossible. Additionally, while we don't currently have records of oil changes, BMW does not have proof that the oil WASN'T changed at least once if not multiple times in that first 30,000 miles.

Again though, this is getting away from the root issue. If the oil had not been changed in that first 30,000 miles, could they causally connect that fact with the failure of a non-friction part, a seal? The answer is that they cannot, at least not based on the diagrams I have seen of this turbo unit.

[lovec1990]

Originally Posted by Iowa X3

My understanding is that the records stay in the BMW overall system under the VIN so that it can be serviced by any BMW dealership.



Totally agree with you here. However, with this being a vehicle that was owned by a fleet for the first 30,000 miles of its life, that fleet probably performed its own maintenance on their vehicles. As silly as it sounds, when you're working with that many vehicles, its cheaper and easier just to do the work quickly in house. I'm working on figuring out which fleet owned it so I can check to see if they have the records, but that is proving to be a challenge.

For those here believing the dealership is in the right in denying this warranty claim.....do you believe that this (or any) vehicle went 30,000 miles without an oil change? I've worked in the automotive industry for over a decade and I can tell you it would be next to impossible. Additionally, while we don't currently have records of oil changes, BMW does not have proof that the oil WASN'T changed at least once if not multiple times in that first 30,000 miles.

Again though, this is getting away from the root issue. If the oil had not been changed in that first 30,000 miles, could they causally connect that fact with the failure of a non-friction part, a seal? The answer is that they cannot, at least not based on the diagrams I have seen of this turbo unit.

dude you are missing a point your engine warranty is void so that means any engine repairs covered by warranty and free service are not free for you until you can prove that car had oil change.

[Iowa X3]

Originally Posted by lovec1990

dude you are missing a point your engine warranty is void so that means any engine repairs covered by warranty and free service are not free for you until you can prove that car had oil change.

I'm not missing the point. Manufacturers have to prove that the failure of the part was directly caused by the missed maintenance they cite in the denial. Are you saying that if the water pump fails they'll deny warranty coverage without proof of oil changes? Although the water pump is technically an accessory, I could make the argument that it is more a part of the "engine" than the turbo is.

At this point, unless I get some quick action from BMW NA, I'm probably going to ask the dealership to order the necessary parts, and then I'll go ahead and install them and recover from them in small claims court later once I have proof of the oil changes that have obviously occurred.

It's unfortunate that I'm going to have to go to these lengths, but I've certainly learned some valuable lessons for future purchases. And I definitely feel stupid for not immediately taking the vehicle back to the dealership I purchased from during the 30 day warranty when I noticed the issue instead of relying on BMW to perform the warranty work. Sorry for the venting.

[MattUK]

If a BMW authorised dealer sold it to you then you have more grounds because they should not sell cars that do not have verifiable service history

[lovec1990]

Iowa X3: Ok, i will explain so you can understand what am i saying:

At the moment dealership have no evidence that car was properly serviced at all so from legal point you broke warranty rules and voided your engine warranty witch means your issue witch can be coused by lack of oil changes cant be fixed under warranty as for your water pump question they can refuse warranty because of inproper maintenance.

[plymjack]

Originally Posted by Iowa X3

I'm not missing the point. Manufacturers have to prove that the failure of the part was directly caused by the missed maintenance they cite in the denial. Are you saying that if the water pump fails they'll deny warranty coverage without proof of oil changes? Although the water pump is technically an accessory, I could make the argument that it is more a part of the "engine" than the turbo is.

Sorry, but you are missing the point. By not having any record of any maintenance being performed in accordance with the laid down schedule YOU have invalidated any and all the warranty. You can not pick around that. No court would support your claim without some proof that the required maintenance was carried out. It does not matter what the item is, the act of servicing means that the vehicle has had some form of inspection and you have no proof of any.

[Bramblings]

Am I missing something here?
Surely if you bought the vehicle from a used car dealer, BMW or not, he should give some sort of warranty on the vehicle - not just tell you to rely on the manufacturer.
I would say that the problem should be presented back at the door of the dealer you bought the car from - he's the one that sold the defective vehicle.
Here in UK the seller has to take some responsibility for the goods he sells and wouldn't be able to get away with just saying - nothing to do with me, speak to the manufacturer!
But of course things may be different where you are.

[kevink1]

I've heard that modern cars can go 30,000 miles without an oil change. Maybe oil will need to be added. The damage this can do will not necessarily be noticed until later in life, probably a later owner.

I've previously owned a former fleet car. I don't know what records would have been available (I didn't have them). Ford provided warranty support for the car, even covering most of the engine replacement cost when it failed.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by plymjack

Sorry, but you are missing the point. By not having any record of any maintenance being performed in accordance with the laid down schedule YOU have invalidated any and all the warranty. You can not pick around that. No court would support your claim without some proof that the required maintenance was carried out. It does not matter what the item is, the act of servicing means that the vehicle has had some form of inspection and you have no proof of any.

This isn't correct.

[lovec1990]

Originally Posted by cSurf

This isn't correct.

explain please

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by lovec1990

explain please

There isn't an exhaustive list of things that will void a warranty. Rather, BMW will deny claims if they can ascribe fault to the owner.

For example- if you put spacers on your X3 and a hub fails- you'll pay for that; but if you put spacers on your X3 and the sunroof stops working- BMW will pay for that. Or better- if you tune your X3 and your rear differential explodes- you'll pay for that; if you tune your car and your fog lights stop working; BMW will pay for that.

This case is a bit gray. Too close for the OP, I fear.

While I agree with the OP's thesis, I think BMW would beat the OP in court. They'd (successfully) claim something like, "aged oil lost viscosity, oil pressure increased, seal failed; no other known examples of this issue in properly maintained X3s".

If I were the OP, I'd sue the seller for the intrinsic value ($4,000) of the warranty as I imagined it was advertised with "the remainder of the manufactures warranty". Unless they can furnish records for the OP, there's a whole suite of problems/repairs that he can't submit warranty claims for.

[Roundown]

Duplicate

[plymjack]

Originally Posted by cSurf

There isn't an exhaustive list of things that will void a warranty. Rather, BMW will deny claims if they can ascribe fault to the owner.

For example- if you put spacers on your X3 and a hub fails- you'll pay for that; but if you put spacers on your X3 and the sunroof stops working- BMW will pay for that. Or better- if you tune your X3 and your rear differential explodes- you'll pay for that; if you tune your car and your fog lights stop working; BMW will pay for that.

This case is a bit gray. Too close for the OP, I fear.

While I agree with the OP's thesis, I think BMW would beat the OP in court. They'd (successfully) claim something like, "aged oil lost viscosity, oil pressure increased, seal failed; no other known examples of this issue in properly maintained X3s".

If I were the OP, I'd sue the seller for the intrinsic value ($4,000) of the warranty as I imagined it was advertised with "the remainder of the manufactures warranty". Unless they can furnish records for the OP, there's a whole suite of problems/repairs that he can't submit warranty claims for.

What you say is correct but since the vehicle has no service history then any claim would be surely be more difficult? Anyone buying a car with any warranty should always check the warranty is valid and a FSH would be certainly be required as part of the validity check.

[Roundown]

You're right, it would be difficult; but only if BMW can prove that the lack of service is the cause of the failure (which they probably could).

The first thing I do when looking at used vehicles (and the OP should have done) is ask for service records. At bare minimum, so the OP could one day furnish them when he/she tries to sell the X3 to someone else (who may take less comfort in the fact that a fleet car is *almost certainly* properly maintained).

The OP is in a pickle here- my point was more that he should spend his efforts plying the seller, not BMW.

Originally Posted by plymjack

What you say is correct but since the vehicle has no service history then any claim would be surely be more difficult? Anyone buying a car with any warranty should always check the warranty is valid and a FSH would be certainly be required as part of the validity check.