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      03-14-2012, 04:36 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
Different off road settings that the X3 doesn't have. The X3 is essentially a jacked up wagon not a true SUV. The most offloading most will do is mounting the sidewalk outside of Barney's.
And the Evoque is just a jacked up hot hatch if you're going to take that view of the X3 (without the engine to back up the hot part).

I'll concede that it has slightly better approach and departure angles if you stay away from the dynamic model then the X3.

But the little knob in the center isn't going to do much of anything offroad, it's missing the rock crawl setting in the terrain response system, the low range in all the other Range's, which the Evoque doesn't have.

It controls:

Dynamic Stability Control
Electronic Traction Control
Hill Descent Control
Hill Start Assist
Roll Stability Control

It's not like the X3 doesn't incorporate all of those functions as well. Without a low range and locking diffs, the Evoque will be able to handle unpaved parking lots just as well as the X3.
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      03-14-2012, 05:22 PM   #46
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If I want to go off road I will take the orig
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      03-14-2012, 05:25 PM   #47
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If I want to go off road I will take the original LR/RR and not the BMW pretender any day.
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      03-14-2012, 05:38 PM   #48
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Although it’s a minority, I find the polarisation over views between Evoque-philes and X3 philes is quite disturbing at times.

It’s curious to see the previous Evoque or X3 thread seemed to be less emotive.

Until this latest thread, and the one on lowering an X3, I was super impressed about the collective and balanced community in the forum who didn’t get its hackles up at a difference of opinion … but coupled with the loss of Lotus7, sadly now I am a bit more disillusioned about some elements of the community … especially when confrontational elements emerge and people feel the need to take sides.

But I guess one has to remember it takes all sorts …

I for one truly respect balanced views from either side, and I recognise the great contribution that Evoque is making.

For sure, many people have and will find it their perfect and car, and like all cars, BMW X3 included, it is bound to have its share of problems.

At least to their credit Land Rover recognise that quality issues are a problem and time will tell if they are making progress in the future.

For good reason, at the start I coveted having an Evoque, and there are many reasons to praise it.

Had I not tried the X3 I would have most certainly bought an Evoque.

But sadly, for my taste, in the end I found it much too cramped, under powered, having apparently poor brakes, limited visibility and with an entertainment system/nav whose UI responsiveness was woefully sluggish.

When I test drove the X3 35D I was blown away, and that alone sold it to me …

And now I am delighted not to have purchased an Evoque, and I am really excited about my X3 order … BUT … I still respect the Evoque and find that denigrating it does nothing good for anyone’s credibility.

At least, if the news reports are correct, there is another positive feature about the Evoque and that is its positive contribution to British manufacturing.

In this regard I am delighted for Jaguar Land Rover … although I don’t know much about how being owned by Tata means in that respect.

Peace and good will to all cars.
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      03-14-2012, 05:48 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
If I want to go off road I will take the original LR/RR and not the BMW pretender any day.
Exactly, you're going to buy the X3 or the Evoque based on appearance and on road performance. There's not enough to differentiate the two when it comes to off-roading ability. They both use awd setups that are geared more toward adverse weather conditions then anything else. Basically buy whichever one you like more, but don't think that one of the two is going to be significantly better if the apocalypse comes and you need a vehicle.
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      03-14-2012, 06:39 PM   #50
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If you want to go off road then get a Land Cruiser or Nissan Patrol, which would eat both RR and X3 for breakfast, off road capabilities and reliability - wise)). But if you need a car that handles well at high speeds and consumes much less fuel then X3 is way better then any of the above...
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      03-14-2012, 07:31 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
If I want to go off road I will take the original LR/RR and not the BMW pretender any day.
Exactly, you're going to buy the X3 or the Evoque based on appearance and on road performance. There's not enough to differentiate the two when it comes to off-roading ability. They both use awd setups that are geared more toward adverse weather conditions then anything else. Basically buy whichever one you like more, but don't think that one of the two is going to be significantly better if the apocalypse comes and you need a vehicle.
I'll explain the offroad/ onroad differences between the 2 as I see them.

The X3 has superior on road handling for a number of reasons. It has a longer wheelbase for a start which makes it a great tourer - it is relaxing at higher speeds and for greater distances. The dynamics are geared to steering the car around a corner safely and quickly rather than getting the car over obstacles, though it still does the latter reasonably well on graded roads. The X3 can make a bad driver decent, and a reasonable driver feel like Vettel when pushing on through bends.

The Evoque has a shorter wheel base by some margin, combined with an equal clearance or ride height. These combine to give the Evoque a 15% greater ramp over angle compared to the X3, approach and departure angles are similarly improved meaning that purely from the ability to clear obstacles the evoque is better to handle offroad conditions.

Both cars can ensure that power is delivered to the wheel with the most grip, most cars can these days. The X3 is targeted at trying to deliver drive evenly split between front and rear at all times - great for onroad driving. The Evoque has a terrain response system that changes throttle and transmission response depending on the surface for example allowing the engine to hold more revs at a lower speed - something the X3 simply cannot do. This is why the Evoque has a clear lead in offroad ability and CAN go offroad decently.

For the models I'm looking at - the base X3 20D or the SD4 Pure, acceleration times are identical though fuel consumption is quite different. Handling is obviously better onroad in the X3 but the Evoque is no slouch, certainly if you had a journey that was 50% on road and 50% offroad the Evoque will arive at the destination with a clear lead, but isn't going to lag too far behind the X3 around town - if at all. The shorter length gives it an advantage in parking for example. The cargo space with the seats down is near enough the same for our purposes - DINKs that like to drive to see stuff, go to the snow and go camping.
That means you look for more aesthetic differences which is down to personal preference. If I could get the X3 in a nice deep cherry red like the 3series I'd be all over it (vermillion just isn't a subsitute). Build quality is slightly ahead on the X3 I think but there is some question over the technology failing as we've seen.

All things considered, for me and my needs at least, it's a very even race.
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      03-14-2012, 07:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borns
If you want to go off road then get a Land Cruiser or Nissan Patrol, which would eat both RR and X3 for breakfast, off road capabilities and reliability - wise)). But if you need a car that handles well at high speeds and consumes much less fuel then X3 is way better then any of the above...
The evoque delivers a compromise between the 2. That compromise will suit some but not others
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      03-15-2012, 05:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filski View Post
The evoque delivers a compromise between the 2. That compromise will suit some but not others
Agree...but X3 is as good off road as Evoque...

Show me these two in action side by side to prove me wrong.
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      03-15-2012, 05:52 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filski View Post
The Evoque has a shorter wheel base by some margin, combined with an equal clearance or ride height. These combine to give the Evoque a 15% greater ramp over angle compared to the X3, approach and departure angles are similarly improved meaning that purely from the ability to clear obstacles the evoque is better to handle offroad conditions.

Both cars can ensure that power is delivered to the wheel with the most grip, most cars can these days. The X3 is targeted at trying to deliver drive evenly split between front and rear at all times - great for onroad driving. The Evoque has a terrain response system that changes throttle and transmission response depending on the surface for example allowing the engine to hold more revs at a lower speed - something the X3 simply cannot do. This is why the Evoque has a clear lead in offroad ability and CAN go offroad decently.
I'll give you the fact the Evoque has slightly better overhang figures for approach and departure angles. A 15% brake over angle advantage isn't much, but it is better.

The rest of the terrain response system is just good marketing. Changes to throttle and transmission response mappings are nice, but certainly not essential for proper throttle control. Personally, I like the my throttle response to remain the same no matter what the driving conditions are, because I've grown accustomed to how the vehicle responds based on throttle input. If you like the electronics, then the Evoque probably is better for you, but to say the X3 simply cannot hold revs at a lower speed is wrong. In the X3, you just select the gear you want to be in and you left foot brake, something that should be second nature to anyone who's done any driving offroad.

Either way, one of them is going to appeal to you more then the other, so go with what you like.
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      03-16-2012, 02:23 AM   #55
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Hi all

I too find the Evoque ugly.

Bought the X3 for that mighty three litre diesel more than it's looks.

It is a lot less ugly than the BMW's of five years ago and much better looking than the Evouque.
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      03-16-2012, 01:17 PM   #56
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All this discussion of which vehicle is better, I am curious to learn more about the X3’s drive train and traction control.

As I understand it, the car can shift power between the front and rear axles, and using independent breaking it can control power to individual wheels on an axle … is that right?

The question I would like to know is if 3 out of the 4 wheels are don’t have traction and only one wheel does … can the X3 move off?

… I know my Jeep cant!
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      03-16-2012, 01:30 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsey View Post
The question I would like to know is if 3 out of the 4 wheels are don’t have traction and only one wheel does … can the X3 move off?
Theoretically, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsey View Post
… I know my Jeep cant!
Jeep offers several different 4wd options on the GC - some can, some can't. Shouldn't have cheeped out with the lower end model when you bought it if that was important to you.
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      03-16-2012, 01:41 PM   #58
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There are a few youtube clips of the x3 on three rollers with only one wheel having traction. The car pulls away OK, A little harder for the Audi and MB... but then again it is a marketing tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsey View Post
All this discussion of which vehicle is better, I am curious to learn more about the X3’s drive train and traction control.

As I understand it, the car can shift power between the front and rear axles, and using independent breaking it can control power to individual wheels on an axle … is that right?

The question I would like to know is if 3 out of the 4 wheels are don’t have traction and only one wheel does … can the X3 move off?

… I know my Jeep cant!
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      03-16-2012, 02:23 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren View Post
Shouldn't have cheeped out with the lower end model when you bought it if that was important to you.
Yes ... wasn't so much cheeped out as not aware of the differences ... was my first 4x4 and I didn't know better ... bought it second hand ... I think everything about the purchase was wrong ... petrol not diesel, Quadra-Trac instead of Quadra-Drive ... blah blah blah ... but it has served me well for 10 years.

Would have been nice to know what a higher spec Jeep could do ... but my wife wouldn't let me buy another now ...

I would love a mud loving 4x4 ... but honestly I would need it 5-10 days a year and honestly I am not entirely sure I would want to expose a brand new car to the sort of environment where my "cheap and crappy" Jeep would get stuck ...

As has been said a trillion times, realistically we spend most of our time on the tarmac, and here the X3 excels in performance and economy while maintiaing a 4x4 esk poise, and so realistically I think the X3 suits my more general needs superlatively.
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      03-16-2012, 04:52 PM   #60
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being the OP, im now 90% bent on getting the Evoque as the X3's design especially the front and interior just doesnt really excite me. Its nice, neutral, safe, but just doesnt have the x-factor for me. the only thing holding me back on the evoque is land rover's reliability reviews....
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      03-16-2012, 05:35 PM   #61
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Bruno, the important thing is that you have done your research and that you are picking the best car for you. You'll have to post some pics of the car when you get it.
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      03-17-2012, 08:08 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno787
being the OP, im now 90% bent on getting the Evoque as the X3's design especially the front and interior just doesnt really excite me. Its nice, neutral, safe, but just doesnt have the x-factor for me. the only thing holding me back on the evoque is land rover's reliability reviews....
Don't mind us, just pick the one that best fit your needs. Everything else is just opinions and personal preference.
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      03-18-2012, 04:57 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldyboy30
To me evoque is like a new sexy girlfriend , who you'll love until you sleep with her few times. But X3 is like a girl who you want to marry and have her for rest of your life.
Totally agree and the evoque is beautiful.I'd also add this is a BMW x3 forum so as owners, we may certainly be biased.

I'd also add:
-that the evoque is an odd mix of parts with its Ford motor and how long will that be supplied? I doubt it's as good as the bmw turbo 4.

- it's a little fancy, putting form way ahead of function. Reallly nice Barbie car.

- remember, you're also buying the company that is building the car. While TaTa may be great, they may also get tired of LR the way BMW and Ford has.

- finally , the evoque's promo videos that i've seen, push it towards luxury first. The one with Gerry McGovern ( i think thats his name), the design director, is horrific and sells the car as more a tool of snobbery. it's the marketing that's really turned me off. If RR's marketing referenced more of their storied history, had the performance I might have looked deeper.

I went to the early show and tell in Portland and the people there were a different breed. Way too ostentatious and I'd say bordering on second or third generation useless - living off someone else's success.

I think most of us on this forum buy BMW for the performance and quality of the engineering.

Good luck with your decision.


Last edited by torzeck; 03-18-2012 at 05:56 PM.. Reason: Originally posted on iPhone, filled with more typos.
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      03-19-2012, 08:13 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
...it's the marketing that's really turned me off. If RR's marketing referenced more of their storied history, had the performance I might have looked deeper.
Yea, on TV, all I see is that stupid Times Square commercial. It speaks nothing about the vehicle's off-road capabilities. But rather, the messege I get is that the vehicle is to be shown off while driving around the city.

However no marketing snafu can be worse than the Fiat 500 marketing campaign featuring Jennifer Lopez. Once I saw that commercial, any remote chance of me (and any testosterone-carrying male in the USA for that matter) ever owning a Fiat 500 flew out the window. Shortly afterwards, the head of Marketing in America was fired.
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      03-19-2012, 09:08 AM   #65
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There are a few youtube clips of the x3 on three rollers with only one wheel having traction. The car pulls away OK, A little harder for the Audi and MB... but then again it is a marketing tool.
I am wondering what the implication is of it being a marketing tool. Is it wrong to demonstrate comparatively that your product can do something that others cannot? Were all of the videos rigged to show falsely that the X3 can do something that other luxury CUVs cannot? If a video as a marketing tool can't be trusted in making a purchasing decision then what can we trust? Or is it just impolite to demean a competitor in a video? As a past owner of three Audi Quattros and five BMWs, of which two were equipped with Xdrive, I pay close attention to both companies' marketing; I recall that very recently Audi commercials were crowing about how painful it must be for BMW to be number 2 to their number 1, by a very slim margin, in a couple of car magazine comparative tests.

From my own off- and on-road experience of several years in an International Scout, a compact true 4WD SUV, almost 40 years ago and six months on-road currently in an X3, I don't have to think twice to conclude that the X3 is far superior on-road; extrapolating from its suspension design I suspect that it would be better off-road as well. I would be very interested to see a direct on- and off-road comparison test between the the X3 and Evoque as well as long-term reliability and durability tests.
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      03-19-2012, 10:22 AM   #66
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In looking for more information on the traction control system I found the following:

Demonstrates single wheel traction of Audi, Mercedes and BMW


Compares Audi to BMW (Audi Fail - moderatly)


or



An Audi answer to BMW (BMW Fail - completely)


Of course ... can you really trust any of the videos ... in forum for the last video there is a lot of "discussion" about whether the car tire and ESP configurations were "really" the same and speculates it was a fix ...

I didn't find any videos for a similar test on the Evoque ...

It would be nice to find some truly objective video comparisons ... all of this stuff smells.

And for some reason I can never be sure if its an X1 or X3 I am looking at ... sounds odd ... I wonder if the dealer will enjoy that at my expense when it comes to collect my de-badged X3 ...

Last edited by Horsey; 03-19-2012 at 10:27 AM..
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