BMW X3 Forum
BMW X3 Forum
Welcome to the ultimate BMW X3 community.
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-17-2013, 12:02 AM   #1
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Major uneven tyre wear on front wheels.. linked to steering rack issues?

My X3 fast approaches its first service, and I have a small list of things that need to be looked at.

Having replaced both of my rear tyres a few weeks back due to a puncture and the brand not being available, the fronts looked fine so I didn't replace them.

Was parked up last week with the steering turned hard right so the wheels were fully exposed, someone pointed out to me that on the inside edge of the tyre I had a load of nicely exposed wire.. same story on the other side, the inside edge of the tyre was totally destroyed.. then looking on the outer edge you could see it had worn on the edge, but not down to the wire.

Yet, in the centre of most of the tyre there was still 6mm left.. so clearly both fronts had worn evenly but mostly on the inside edge and on the outside.. this would suggest to me under inflation, but that was fine.

Yes, my fault for not checking the tyres properly before, and I was fooled by how much tread I had left in the centre part.. The tyres have done 15k so I am not not that bothered about replacing them.

The tyre shop basically said 'Wooooahh you have a severe tracking / alignment issue' which I had to agree with, so I had the tracking and alignment corrected when they changed the tyres.

The question tho, has anyone else seen this? is this simply an alignment issue, which with the state of our roads wouldn't surprise me, or is this related to something more serious?

When the power is off, and parked up, there is amazing play and clunking if you try and move the steering wheel, so there is (In my mind) something very wrong with the my steering setup (on the list for the dealer).
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 04:16 AM   #2
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Severe wear on both edges of the tyres, hard to judge if something is 'seriously' wrong.

Possibly, but did you feel there was an issue, or did it run and track straight, steer well, or what issues have you detected, other than wear patterns?

What did the tyre shop find wrong with the geometry? What have they corrected to cure wear on both tyre edges?

You say pressures were fine, but by what benchmark? I would suggest the pressures were too low for your use. I'd still evaluate tyre pressures very carefully and now watch even more closely for edge wear. You may find the adjustment will have just moved the wear and even make the steering less precise, if there were no driving issues before.

BTW, what tyre, wheel size and suspension are you running? Assume you are on the OEM run-flats.

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 06:38 AM   #3
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Hi Pete,

Steering and tracking felt fine to be honest, but something has felt wrong with the setup for a long time (I've posted before about it).

Pressures.. well based on the ones printed inside the door.. There seems to be a lot of varying views on ideal pressures for these horrible tyres. The ones on the car were the stocks Contis, I've now had to switch to Goodyear as thats all that seems to be out there.. in retrospect, had I changed all at the same time I would have dumped them and opted for a can of gunk in the back, and it would have saved me £500 all round.

They are 19's on a 3.0D M Sport, but I deleted the M Sport and went for the VDC

I have some pictures on the iphone, ill get them uploaded

Last edited by MattUK; 03-17-2013 at 06:46 AM..
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 06:39 AM   #4
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
I guess its a good question to ask everyone what they run theirs at front and rear
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 06:45 AM   #5
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Here is a picture showing the inside edge
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:08 AM   #6
lbjgh
Lieutenant Colonel
lbjgh's Avatar
Canada
104
Rep
1,511
Posts

Drives: 2013 AW X3 M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North of Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Matt how many kms do you have on the car? ... That is some ugly wear.
__________________
2013, AW, xDrive35i, M Sport Package, Technology Package, Dynamic Comfort Package, Premium Package, 3M Clear Bra, Euro foglight switch, a few coded fixes
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:13 AM   #7
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Just hit 15k miles, so thats what 24k km? Yes very ugly wear.

The majority of those miles are going to be on UK country roads to and from work with some motorway stuff thrown in for good measure, and the quality of our country roads is not far from 'Surface of the moon' quality, so I would expect the mileage to be lower than normal, but that said.. I have got less out of these tyres than I ever got out of my M3
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:23 AM   #8
sfax
Brigadier General
sfax's Avatar
United Kingdom
91
Rep
3,855
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 2011 F25
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Berkshire, UK

iTrader: (0)

Hi Matt, I have also have really uneven tyre wear and I'm not sure whether it was caused by bumping a kerb or something or BMW screwing up the alignment or tracking when they switched over from winter tyres (winter tyres look OK). Will post some pictures later. Will probably need to replace all 4 of mine despite only approx. 13,000 miles.

For reference they are staggered Conti CS3s: 275/40 R19 101W, 245/45 R19 98W front
__________________

F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:25 AM   #9
richard in NC
Colonel
United_States
1225
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

If the outside edges are also worn and not due to hard driving and track days, then under inflation played a role. I always start with about 2 psi over the sticker and go from there. More with loads or big trips.

Have them check toe as well as camber. Note it is common for the rear tires on BMWs to wear the insides first but not to that degree and not usually the fronts.
__________________
2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s
2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims
Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:29 AM   #10
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Hi Sfax, glad I'm not alone then.

A friend of mine has the now infamous M Sport 19's on his 3 series that were on watchdog, he has had 4 rims crack with BMW only replacing 2 of his. His wear was also screwed and he is still arguing with them about the others but they are not having any of it.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:30 AM   #11
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Thanks Rich, defo no track days in the X3. I'll be booking it in for its first service next week so I'll be sure to mention everything that's happened along with my list of issues.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 01:03 PM   #12
scotta2
Private First Class
United Kingdom
5
Rep
110
Posts

Drives: MY2013 F25 X3 M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Falkirk UK

iTrader: (0)

The wear characteristics look as though something is radically wrong with the steering geometry. Personally I would get the dealer to throughly check the suspension components and carry out a full geometry alignment check. Tyre fitting shops are fine for routine wheel alignment but they dont normally have the knowledge or equipment necessary for more complex checks. Severe wear on the inside edge may be caused by excessive negative camber and this also causes "ropey steering".

It's a good post and a lesson to us all to thoroughly check our cars, just imagine the consequences should an accident occur and it is attributed to tyre wear.
__________________
MY 2013 X3 M Sport 2.0D Auto, Media Package, Xenons Deep Sea Blue with 19" Alloys.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 02:17 PM   #13
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Had I been stopped that could have been 5k and 6 points, or god forbid in an accident, that would have resulted in my insurance being invalid.. would have been very expensive.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 02:35 PM   #14
buze
Owner
United Kingdom
131
Rep
566
Posts

Drives: G05 30d M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Berkshire, Powys

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Matt, you mention "list of issues", does "the clonk" appear oh that list? Just curious about a possible link...
__________________
Received 190911: X5 30d M-Sport:Artic Grey:Comfort Pack:Tech Pack:Visibility Pack: Driver Assist Pro Pack:Heat Pack:Glass Roof:Leather Dash
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #15
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Clonks certainly appear on that list.. its clonked like a good'un ever since I got it
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 04:35 PM   #16
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattUK View Post
Hi Pete,

Steering and tracking felt fine to be honest, but something has felt wrong with the setup for a long time (I've posted before about it).

Pressures.. well based on the ones printed inside the door.. There seems to be a lot of varying views on ideal pressures for these horrible tyres......

They are 19's on a 3.0D M Sport, but I deleted the M Sport and went for the VDC
I note your comment on a steering clonk, any other strange driving characteristics?

Pressures on the door plate are not definitive, cover a range of use. Type of trips, how hard you drive, all affect the tyre wear patterns. Many find the minimum 'normal' pressures are just not high enough for typical use, causes edge wear. For example if you make a lot of short trips, the tyres will hardly ever reach the optimum working pressures, that results in running too low and rapid tyre wear. Running in the wet does very much the same, tyres stay cool, pressures are too low to run on the crown of the tyre. RFTs just exaggerate this reality.

Still can't understand both sides wearing, when one side is so bad as to knock the edge right off, do suspect pressure is at least partly involved.

Did you get a printout of the "before and after" geo' settings? If it was just a simple toe adjustment, I'm not at all sure I'd be happy with that, but want a full 4-wheel check to see what is really going on.

BTW, are you sure the tyre pressure gauge you use is accurate and reliable?

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 06:17 PM   #17
woodchuck1
Private First Class
United_States
16
Rep
181
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3 X-drive 35i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

The pictures look like they're worn all the way down to the cord on one edge. That's a dangerous degree of wear.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 06:39 PM   #18
woodchuck1
Private First Class
United_States
16
Rep
181
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3 X-drive 35i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

When the power is off, and parked up, there is amazing play and clunking if you try and move the steering wheel, so there is (In my mind) something very wrong with the my steering setup (on the list for the dealer).[/QUOTE]

X3s have electric power steering. There's no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels. The steering wheel is more like a rheostat or a dial that actuates electric motors via wires. Any sound made by turning the wheel with the power off is probably not related to your tire wear problem.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:09 PM   #19
woodchuck1
Private First Class
United_States
16
Rep
181
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3 X-drive 35i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Assuming they're run-flat tires at about $400 apiece, and they're thoroughly worn out at 15,000 miles, that's more than $1 per mile just for tire wear. That's pretty outrageous.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2013, 07:50 PM   #20
Mingstar88
First Lieutenant
Canada
78
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 35i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodchuck1 View Post
Assuming they're run-flat tires at about $400 apiece, and they're thoroughly worn out at 15,000 miles, that's more than $1 per mile just for tire wear. That's pretty outrageous.
400x4 = 1,600
1,600/15,000

$0.107 / mile
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2013, 01:02 AM   #21
xDrive35i
Lieutenant Colonel
xDrive35i's Avatar
United_States
122
Rep
1,781
Posts

Drives: Porsche Macan S
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodchuck1 View Post
When the power is off, and parked up, there is amazing play and clunking if you try and move the steering wheel, so there is (In my mind) something very wrong with the my steering setup (on the list for the dealer).
X3s have electric power steering. There's no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels. The steering wheel is more like a rheostat or a dial that actuates electric motors via wires. Any sound made by turning the wheel with the power off is probably not related to your tire wear problem.[/QUOTE]

Nope. It's electromechanical. Like all BMW's with EPS, the steering assembly swaps hydraulic fluid for an electric motor with a variable planetary gearset. Make no mistake, BMWs of late with EPS are especially lacking in road feedback, but not entirely devoid of it. If you push the car hard enough, you will feel kickback at the limits of adhesion. This nods to the mechanical linkage. EPS makes for a very refined steering experience, filtering out all but the most important information. The "unfeeling" nature of EPS systems is as a result of the electric motor's ability to offer the right amount of assistance at every possible moment. What we describe as "road feel" is actually an insufficient amount of assistance, whether hydraulic or electric. However, the position of the steering rack, as well as the rising angle from the front axle to the input (steering gear), can have a dramatic effect on road feedback. The X3's lack of on and off center feedback comes as a result of electric motor remaining off until the computer receives steering input--that is, the delay as the motor reactivates.

The only electric power steering that behaves the way you describe has just debuted in the new Infiniti Q50.

Last edited by xDrive35i; 03-18-2013 at 01:14 AM..
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2013, 01:07 AM   #22
MattUK
Captain Unsensible
MattUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
99
Rep
737
Posts

Drives: 2016 M240i Coupe - Estoril
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodchuck1 View Post
When the power is off, and parked up, there is amazing play and clunking if you try and move the steering wheel, so there is (In my mind) something very wrong with the my steering setup (on the list for the dealer).
X3s have electric power steering. There's no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels. The steering wheel is more like a rheostat or a dial that actuates electric motors via wires. Any sound made by turning the wheel with the power off is probably not related to your tire wear problem.[/QUOTE]

I have exactly the same.. which told me something wasn't right
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST