[ctski1]

Originally Posted by BBMk

Yeah agree we lose out because we have to pay more for a car with less options compared to the US. For me, that means I can't afford the x35i and the dynamic damper control and performance control...which is the car that most car mag or reviewers get to drive.

Less BMW...for the buck.

In a few years, I might goto a used US vechicle X3 x35i when I get bored of my Canadian 2012 x28i.

Don't fret my man...the x28i is a better buy IMO. It drives great, has ample power and a great engine! The 35i is very fast but it handles like....well - an SUV.
If you want a 'car-like' speed AND handling - get a car. A nice simple 135i would complement your x3 beautifully!

[tuco44]

As a Canadian, I find it tedious and disappointing to read so many comments on this site, and other car forums, about how "tough" Canadians have it, usually compared to Americans, in buying BMWs and other cars.

Given geography, it is natural we are comparing ourselves to our US cousins. However, if we are openminded enough to look further afield, we see that Canadians have it very good when it comes to BMW buying, etc.

Our prices for BMWs, while more than US prices, are lower than prices in most (maybe all) of the rest of the world. I know we pay less than buyers in Europe, Australia, South American, and most of Asia. Our selection on options is not as open as in, say Europe, as many options are part of packages (same in the US). Canadians pay more for a number of reasons, the main one may be simply that our market is about 1/10 of the US size. Additionlly, our laws may require extra cost items. Canadian dealers are used to a slightly higher profit margin, partly due to smaller markets. Volume for Cdn dealers is lower than those in the US.

As Canadians, we should consider some of these points, before we mouth off about how "terrible" we have it here. I find a great many comments on this site and others to be immature and poorly thought-out. Some comments are just plain ludicrous, and reflect a "I am entitled" theme.

Suck it up, Canadians, we have it pretty good, all things considered.

My opinion, FWIW.

[retiredguy]

+1

[BBMk]

I think in reality BMW Canada needs to figure it out because we are getting flooded with lots a used BMW cars from the US. This hurts RV values and will hurt new car purchases as well...that means it is hurting those who are buying from Canadian dealers.

[Lotus7]

At least Canada has a real F1 track in Montreal, unlike the rumor we have for one in the US in that great, famous for motor racing state, Texas. It's also easier to understand French than "Texan".

[wholefoods]

Originally Posted by tuco44

As a Canadian, I find it tedious and disappointing to read so many comments on this site, and other car forums, about how "tough" Canadians have it, usually compared to Americans, in buying BMWs and other cars.

Given geography, it is natural we are comparing ourselves to our US cousins. However, if we are openminded enough to look further afield, we see that Canadians have it very good when it comes to BMW buying, etc.

Our prices for BMWs, while more than US prices, are lower than prices in most (maybe all) of the rest of the world. I know we pay less than buyers in Europe, Australia, South American, and most of Asia. Our selection on options is not as open as in, say Europe, as many options are part of packages (same in the US). Canadians pay more for a number of reasons, the main one may be simply that our market is about 1/10 of the US size. Additionlly, our laws may require extra cost items. Canadian dealers are used to a slightly higher profit margin, partly due to smaller markets. Volume for Cdn dealers is lower than those in the US.

As Canadians, we should consider some of these points, before we mouth off about how "terrible" we have it here. I find a great many comments on this site and others to be immature and poorly thought-out. Some comments are just plain ludicrous, and reflect a "I am entitled" theme.

Suck it up, Canadians, we have it pretty good, all things considered.

My opinion, FWIW.

Hang on a second!

While BMW prices in Canada compare favourably to those in Europe and the rest of the world, have you factored in the fact that we pay 46% tax when we make money and then another 13% tax when we spend it? Living in Ontario and being in the highest tax bracket means we live in a 59% tax world.

Now compare that to paying 30% tax in the US (with lower BMW prices) or 13% tax in Russia (albeit with higher BMW prices) and you will see that folks living in the countries with lower tax rates can in fact afford to pay higher prices! What their governments do not collect as personal income tax they compensate for with higher rates and tarriffs on imported vehicles.

So once you adjust for this tax rates discrepancy you will see the true picture.

Just my 2c...

[Nahoa]

Add in what we pay for health care and it comes out about the same. Factor in Canada's liberal leave policies including paternity and maternity leave that include job protection and you've got some real benefits there. There's no free lunch. You pay for it one place or the other, you benefit one place or the other.

And you've got the tariffs wrong -- the US does nothing to make your care more expensive, it's what Canada does on importing it.

Would love to know what generates this "poor us" approach from so many Canadians. Seems to me y'all have some nice things going for you.

[tuco44]

Originally Posted by wholefoods

Hang on a second!

While BMW prices in Canada compare favourably to those in Europe and the rest of the world, have you factored in the fact that we pay 46% tax when we make money and then another 13% tax when we spend it? Living in Ontario and being in the highest tax bracket means we live in a 59% tax world.

Now compare that to paying 30% tax in the US (with lower BMW prices) or 13% tax in Russia (albeit with higher BMW prices) and you will see that folks living in the countries with lower tax rates can in fact afford to pay higher prices! What their governments do not collect as personal income tax they compensate for with higher rates and tarriffs on imported vehicles.

So once you adjust for this tax rates discrepancy you will see the true picture.

Just my 2c...

No one is agruing that the US tax rates are not less, on the surface only however, as Nahoa stated in the preceding post; but the fact remains that outside the US only, Canadians have it very good and should stop with the complaining all the time. Tax rates in Euro countries are generally higher than Canadian rates as well, so your argument about Canadian taxes is only applicable against the US. And THAT is the true picture.

Other than US prices, Canadian BMW prices are among the lowest in the world. FACT.

[sfax]

Originally Posted by tuco44

No one is agruing that the US tax rates are not less, on the surface only however, as Nahoa stated in the preceding post; but the fact remains that outside the US only, Canadians have it very good and should stop with the complaining all the time. Tax rates in Euro countries are generally higher than Canadian rates as well, so your argument about Canadian taxes is only applicable against the US. And THAT is the true picture.

Other than US prices, Canadian BMW prices are among the lowest in the world. FACT.

If you're a higher rate taxpayer in the UK (and if you're buying a new X3 you probably are) you'll be paying up to 50% tax and then 20% tax on the cost of the car too. A base auto X3 20d SE is about $52,000USD. And fuel is £1.40/L => $8.30USD/gallon(US).

But I know for a fact our Scandinavian friends pay a lot lot more than we do

[wholefoods]

Originally Posted by tuco44

No one is agruing that the US tax rates are not less, on the surface only however, as Nahoa stated in the preceding post; but the fact remains that outside the US only, Canadians have it very good and should stop with the complaining all the time. Tax rates in Euro countries are generally higher than Canadian rates as well, so your argument about Canadian taxes is only applicable against the US. And THAT is the true picture.

Other than US prices, Canadian BMW prices are among the lowest in the world. FACT.

And I do not disagree with that either. My point was one cannot simply compare auto prices across countries without giving regard to relative tax rates. Buying an X3 in Ontario for $72k is similar to paying ~$100k for the same car in a country with 13% tax - because those who don't pay high income tax take home enough to be able to afford those higher prices. So please don't wine and complain how expensive BMW's are in those geographies where residents pay low tax.

[bunnn]

Originally Posted by wholefoods

And I do not disagree with that either. My point was one cannot simply compare auto prices across countries without giving regard to relative tax rates. Buying an X3 in Ontario for $72k is similar to paying ~$100k for the same car in a country with 13% tax - because those who don't pay high income tax take home enough to be able to afford those higher prices. So please don't wine and complain how expensive BMW's are in those geographies where residents pay low tax.

I used to complain about how shitty it is to buy from the Canadian market. Many also complain about all the tax we pay in Canada. If we're going to argue that Canada(Ontario) pays more tax than other geographic locations, we also have to factor in standard of living, average income, roads, and the whole nine yard. If we look historically at the income tax figures, Canada doesn't even rank that high. Would you rather live in a country that charges you 135% import tax, a shit load of road fees, expensive[and shitty] gas..a really low average income?
Canada really isn't that bad guys.

[tuco44]

Wholefoods - "So please don't wine and complain how expensive BMW's are in those geographies where residents pay low tax"

Care to name a few of such countries with high BMW prices and low tax??

And you did mean "whine", not "wine"? Wine is good, whine not so.

[wholefoods]

Originally Posted by tuco44

Wholefoods - "So please don't wine and complain how expensive BMW's are in those geographies where residents pay low tax"

Care to name a few of such countries with high BMW prices and low tax??

And you did mean "whine", not "wine"? Wine is good, whine not so.

Russia to my knowledge is one such place

[tuco44]

Originally Posted by wholefoods

Russia to my knowledge is one such place

Great, when do you leave..?

Joking aside, there are a lot of other factors to take into account besides just car prices and tax - such as housing costs, health care, crime rates, corruption, govt stability, price of utilities, etc, etc, etc, etc.

So maybe on your simplistic scale, Canada has the 3rd lowest BMW prices after Russia and the US. Do you really want to trade Canada for Russia?

Didn't think so. We have it good here, as I said before, suck it up and quit the whining.

[Dr Stig 2]

Or...
move to Singapore or Australia, find out how bad our taxation regimes are, then go back to Canada with a whole new appreciation of the colour of your own grass...

[Rodion]

Well, one neutral factor could be that how many years does it take average tax payer to earn enough money (after taxes) to get 2.8i X3?

In Finland, car with taxes means one has to work three years to get BMW X3.

If the car is taxfree (cif price), it would take about two years.

(average tax payer earns 22 000 euros after taxes per anno here, this is the "mean salary", ie. 50% earns more and 50% earns less)

[Dr Stig 2]

Originally Posted by Rodion

Well, one neutral factor could be that how many years does it take average tax payer to earn enough money (after taxes) to get 2.8i X3?

In Finland, car with taxes means one has to work three years to get BMW X3.

If the car is taxfree (cif price), it would take about two years.

(average tax payer earns 22 000 euros after taxes per anno here, this is the "mean salary", ie. 50% earns more and 50% earns less)

I remember when we used to compare big Mac prices in each country.
How times have changed.

[Rodion]

Originally Posted by Dr Stig 2

I remember when we used to compare big Mac prices in each country.
How times have changed.

The Economist still has Big Mac -index.

BR,
Subscriber

[Dr Stig 2]

Originally Posted by Rodion

The Economist still has Big Mac -index.

BR,
Subscriber

Our local current affairs program has just launched a campaign for an Ikea index, pointing out Ikea charge up to three and four times as much for furniture in Australia as they do in North America and Sweden.
A bit rude give a lot of it comes from china and Indonesia, which are closer to Australia than either of the other two places.
:sad:

[noobshooter]

Originally Posted by Dr Stig 2

Or...
move to Singapore or Australia, find out how bad our taxation regimes are, then go back to Canada with a whole new appreciation of the colour of your own grass...

Australian cars are still considerably cheaper than in Singapore. At least in Australia you guys get to own the car once you bought the car... In Singapore you merely own the car for 10yrs. After which you will need to renew the "license" to own the car for another 10 yrs. After 20yrs the car will have to be scrap and you get nuts out of it.

[MattUK]

I can feel the warmth and love

[lbjgh]

After reading this thread it occurred to me that BMW likely prices their cars to target a specific demographic in each country they sell in.

So what's the demographic for the X3?