[jbinbi]

Sorry to post this new 'abused' topic. I have searched and read far too many threads on this topic which has me more confused than when i started.

On 28 version,
I am not going to get M sport package.

DHP? Does it work, and is it worth it in your opinion.

SAP. same question.

If i don't get SAP or Msports, is there any other way to get bluetooth?

If you were down to your last $, and were going to get one, which one would it be?

Thanks.

[jk]

i got the sap and not dhp. the big difference for me was the sport seats. go sit in the seats, regular and sport, at a dealer.

[jdmass]

I second the comment on the sport seats. I have them on the 335i sedan that I'm turning in and both my wife and I feel that they are extremely comfortable and supportive seats especially on long trips. I test drove the X3 both with and without SAV, and while the regular seats aren't bad, they don't match this level of comfort. If you're spending a long time in the car, they make a difference IMHO.

I also ordered DHP on the X3. I wasn't able to drive a car with it, but coming from the 3 series with sport, which I liked, but my wife was less thrilled with ridewise, I'm hoping it will give us both what we prefer. We'll see.

[sard]

Such a difficult question because it's so personal. Some ppl are sensitive to body roll and some are not. Some want it stiff some do not.

For me personally it is worth it even though I only use it like 10% of the time. It makes a noticeable difference to suspension. Not drastic though.

[MetaX]

I find it very handy for going from freeway driving to dealing with the twisties in the mountains. Having the choice to switch between different suspension modes was totally worth it even though--as sard noted--I only use it a small percentage of the time. Unfortunately, while sport mode is great for me I still end up driving on the more conservative side since my dog doesn't give a hoot about what mode I'm in and will protest aggressive turning by barfing. So I guess the proviso here for getting DHP is with the assumption that you will not be transporting small (or large I guess) dogs through winding mountain roads. The same may be true for elderly folk that aren't retired fighter pilots or race car drivers.

[colson79]

I would go SAP over DHP for the sports seats alone. I find the standard suspension to be firm enough for me. As some of the people stated who actually purchased DHP, they only use it a small percentage of the time. If you go SAP you will be using the Sport seats 100% of the time.

[litt]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e28i_update_2/

[Le Chef]

I use DHP "Sport" pretty much all of the time, but have nixed the more aggressive power-train part. For me the ride in "Normal" is just too soft and boaty, and the steering too wishy-washy to be acceptable.

[greg2step]

I have SAP+DHP my sport mode is set for chassis only I use it 90% of the time, drop back to normal on a few pothole laden roads i drive regularly.

My advice for new buyers - if you are coming from something with a tight suspension like a 3 series, you may want to seriously consider DHP... if your prior ride is say a Ford Explorer or a Toyota Highlander, you may not care so much.

[xDrive35i]

With SAP you still get adjustable dampers. You need the DHP to get the active dampers. If marginally less ride comfort is not a huge concern for you, get the SAP alone. If you want everything to be exactly as you could imagine it would be and more, get the DHP, too.

[bren]

Originally Posted by juddholland

With SAP you still get adjustable dampers.

Maybe it's because I'm new here and missed a memo - but is that some kind of easter egg or something? I don't see any confirmation of this in any documentation or parts lists.

[greg2step]

oh we've been through this someone actually posted diagrams and part #'s for suspension parts - 3 version - standard transmission+no dhp, sports transmission +no dhp, and last DHP.

someone else can cross-link on that one

DHP also gives you variable sport steering - the tighter steering in sport mode + dhp is really what i like even more than the dynamic damper control.

i wish i could set transmission + suspension to normal and steering on sport for certain situations but idrive doesn't have that option on sport mode config.

[lhsa]

i think i missed that discussion. so sport mode does affect suspension on non-DHP SAP cars? what about Msports?

Originally Posted by greg2step

oh we've been through this someone actually posted diagrams and part #'s for suspension parts - 3 version - standard transmission+no dhp, sports transmission +no dhp, and last DHP.

someone else can cross-link on that one

DHP also gives you variable sport steering - the tighter steering in sport mode + dhp is really what i like even more than the dynamic damper control.

i wish i could set transmission + suspension to normal and steering on sport for certain situations but idrive doesn't have that option on sport mode config.

[Le Chef]

There 3 different suspensions available in Europe (Standard, Sport, and DDC). In the US there are 2 (Standard, and DDC). There is nothing in any publicly available BMW documentation that I have seen that says the dampers are adjustable unless DDC (Dynamic Damper Control) is fitted. In the US you can have SAP without DDC which means you do not get adjustable dampers.

[sfax]

Originally Posted by Le Chef

There 3 different suspensions available in Europe (Standard, Sport, and DDC). In the US there are 2 (Standard, and DDC). There is nothing in any publicly available BMW documentation that I have seen that says the dampers are adjustable unless DDC (Dynamic Damper Control) is fitted. In the US you can have SAP without DDC which means you do not get adjustable dampers.

This is my understanding as well and would make sense as most of the cost must be the component that allows the suspension firmness to actually be adjustable at all. Whether it's done automatically based on road surface feedback or statically set to Sport or Normal firmness by the driver is just part of the control mechanism which I assume is just an electromagnetic field being adjusted

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by Le Chef

There 3 different suspensions available in Europe (Standard, Sport, and DDC). In the US there are 2 (Standard, and DDC). There is nothing in any publicly available BMW documentation that I have seen that says the dampers are adjustable unless DDC (Dynamic Damper Control) is fitted. In the US you can have SAP without DDC which means you do not get adjustable dampers.

This is what I initially thought, however certain forum members have reported ordering the SAP without the DHP and still getting adjustable dampers. This supports a number of conclusions. If you order DHP alone, you get active, driver selectable dampers, but you do not have driver-selectable drivetrain settings. If you order both SAP and DHP, you get active, driver-selectable chassis and drivetrain settings. If you only get SAP, then you only get driver-selectable drivetrain settings and dampers that are not active.

[Want the thrill]

Originally Posted by juddholland

This is what I initially thought, however certain forum members have reported ordering the SAP without the DHP and still getting adjustable dampers. This supports a number of conclusions. If you order DHP alone, you get active, driver selectable dampers, but you do not have driver-selectable drivetrain settings. If you order both SAP and DHP, you get active, driver-selectable chassis and drivetrain settings. If you only get SAP, then you only get driver-selectable dampers that are not active.

That is spot on Juddholland. This is what I have been saying all along (without knowing how to properly describe it). The best blurb I have read on the internet to describe the difference in adaptive vs. active suspensions is this:

"Adaptive suspension is a computer-controlled suspension system that varies shock absorber firmness to match changing road or dynamic conditions.

Adaptive suspensions rely on a network of sensors and a computer that optimizes the firmness of its shock absorbers or struts based on the road surface or the vehicle’s dynamics as it turns, brakes and accelerates. The key to these systems is the variable-rate shock or strut, the firmness of which can be changed in fractions of a second. In these devices, an electric signal from the computer varies the size of a valve through which hydraulic fluid flows. (The movement of this fluid, or oil, through valves is the basis of a shock absorber’s operation.)

While some cars connect variable-rate shocks to a switch that allows the driver to select ride firmness, (this would be the X3 35i with SAP) true adaptive suspensions — with names like Adaptive Damping and Road-Sensing Suspension — automatically vary the firmness independently at each wheel (this would be those with DHP). One of the main objectives is to keep the body as flat as possible in order to minimize body roll, front-end dive during braking and rear-end squat during acceleration. More sophisticated systems monitor wheel motion and match the suspension’s firmness to the road surface.

Though they achieve similar ends, don’t confuse adaptive suspensions with active suspensions, the latter of which uses some type of actuator to literally raise and lower the chassis independently at each wheel."

[greg2step]

This is the clearest explanation yet. Can you elaborate on what the sport transmission w/ sport control selector does for steering with and without variable sport steering which is also part of DHP? Does the steering tighten up in sport mode without DHP/VSS?

[Le Chef]

Not my understanding. I asked the head service guy from a Chicagoland dealer about this specific question a few weeks ago and he was categorical that unless you had DDC the dampers were not adjustable. There were only two sets of part numbers for dampers that he pulled up on screen: passive and non-adjustable, and DDC dampers that could be altered to give an additional sport setting. If someone in the US has proof that there's a third damper type out there that has both a normal and a sport setting, then let's see the part number.

BMW have now made this idiot proof on the website: you can order SAP or MSport but neither comes with DHP which means you get no sport rocker switch by the shifter. OTOH you can order DHP without either SAP or MSport and you will get the rocker switch that controls variable sport steering, performance control, and dynamic damper control. My understanding is that in the US this has always been the case. If you ordered DHP you got Dynamic Damper Control as part of the package.

[ricardoyak]

This is a really confusing topic made more so by the variations in terms used by BMW and packages in different territories and even year on year in the UK brochures.

I think it might be best to ignore the packages, but this is risky as in the UK the only way of getting Sport Suspension on an SE is with the Dynamic Package (steering wheel, seats, suspension, performance control and 308 wheels).

I would have thought there have to be two non-adjustable suspension setups - std and sport. Presumably the latter has stiffer suspension (shocks and springs) but apparently not lowered.

Then there is Variable Dampers. These have adjustable stiffness but also, according to the BMW marketing speak, do react to the road surface. In the UK you have to order Performance Control as a prerequisite for Variable Dampers and they are not standard in any model or package.

You get the rocker switch (Performance Drive Control) with either Variable Dampers or Sport Automatic Transmission (uk std on 35d MSport). The brochure says Performance Drive Control adjusts steering, throttle, engine response and suspension.

My questions now relate to that rocker switch does with certain underlying configurations. For example;

I won't have Variable Sport Steering so I would assume that it can't change the steering response.

I will have the Steptronic gearbox (not the Sport one) so assume that it could change the responsiveness here. It could also change throttle response. Which is what the marketing material seems to suggest.

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by Le Chef

Not my understanding. I asked the head service guy from a Chicagoland dealer about this specific question a few weeks ago and he was categorical that unless you had DDC the dampers were not adjustable. There were only two sets of part numbers for dampers that he pulled up on screen: passive and non-adjustable, and DDC dampers that could be altered to give an additional sport setting. If someone in the US has proof that there's a third damper type out there that has both a normal and a sport setting, then let's see the part number.

BMW have now made this idiot proof on the website: you can order SAP or MSport but neither comes with DHP which means you get no sport rocker switch by the shifter. OTOH you can order DHP without either SAP or MSport and you will get the rocker switch that controls variable sport steering, performance control, and dynamic damper control. My understanding is that in the US this has always been the case. If you ordered DHP you got Dynamic Damper Control as part of the package.

All of that is entirely true for the 28i, but I will search for the thread that discussed a few owners' surprises at the fact that their non-DHP 35i's showed up at the dealer with the rocker switch. They weren't build errors because all of them checked their build sheets and compared them to their dealers' files to make sure that DHP was not ordered by accident; there's no way that all three of them could have experienced the same fortunate mistake. The reason why we have almost no hands on proof of the presence of a rocker switch without DHP is because there are few people who would order SAP on a 35i and not see some sense in tacking on DHP at least just for the hell of it.

[sfax]

Originally Posted by ricardoyak

This is a really confusing topic made more so by the variations in terms used by BMW and packages in different territories and even year on year in the UK brochures.

I think it might be best to ignore the packages, but this is risky as in the UK the only way of getting Sport Suspension on an SE is with the Dynamic Package (steering wheel, seats, suspension, performance control and 308 wheels).

I would have thought there have to be two non-adjustable suspension setups - std and sport. Presumably the latter has stiffer suspension (shocks and springs) but apparently not lowered.

Then there is Variable Dampers. These have adjustable stiffness but also, according to the BMW marketing speak, do react to the road surface. In the UK you have to order Performance Control as a prerequisite for Variable Dampers and they are not standard in any model or package.

You get the rocker switch (Performance Drive Control) with either Variable Dampers or Sport Automatic Transmission (uk std on 35d MSport). The brochure says Performance Drive Control adjusts steering, throttle, engine response and suspension.

My questions now relate to that rocker switch does with certain underlying configurations. For example;

I won't have Variable Sport Steering so I would assume that it can't change the steering response.

I will have the Steptronic gearbox (not the Sport one) so assume that it could change the responsiveness here. It could also change throttle response. Which is what the marketing material seems to suggest.

It will change the throttle response only if you have no VSS or VDC. Sport+ will switch on DTC and moderate DSC. The changes to throttle are different to those you get my simply driving in DS mode (moving shifter to the left)

You will always get the rocker switch with VSS (the cheapest way to get it in the UK) or you'd have no way to control the tightness of the steering.

You can get the dynamic package with 309s too