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      11-10-2011, 08:47 AM   #67
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What cars are produced in affluent areas with the workers driving around in $50k+ vehicles? If they were then the cost and price of your car just went up... My South African BMWs were fine. I suspect most German car plants are full of Turkish migrant workers and so it goes on.
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      11-10-2011, 09:43 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
What cars are produced in affluent areas with the workers driving around in $50k+ vehicles? If they were then the cost and price of your just went up... My South African BMWs were fine. I suspect most German car plants are full of Turkish migrant workers and so it goes on.
Seconded.
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      11-10-2011, 09:51 AM   #69
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It could be any car... I had a 2007 brand new Discovery 3 (LR3) and went back to the workshop for faults and gearbox issues 11 times before i got rid after 12 months. The service centre at Stratstone even knew me by nane and could recognise my voice on the phone!!!!
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      11-10-2011, 09:52 AM   #70
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Won't the senior guys who sign off on the Quality Control get big discounts on new BMWs? They work for BMW and I'm sure the benefits increase with seniority. I think a lot of these faults are bad QC on the components rather than the assembly process
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      11-10-2011, 10:45 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Hutt View Post
It seems this thread has completely 180'ed from happy and excited owners of the 35d to speculating why the failures have occurred, so I will weigh in and not consider it thread jacking now. As one of those pi$$ed off owners of a steering issue still currently without my car it is maddening as hell. But I do NOT think it is a widespread issue enough for anyone to worry about (unless you have the issue). This is evidenced by the underwhelming few people that have discussed it in the forums compared to the 21000 plus manufactured, AND the fact if it was a common problem they would know how to fix it readily and not have service departments and BMW engineers stumped. It is maddening as hell and I empathize with all who have dealt with quality issues but I CANNOT jump on the band wagon and crucify Joe, Steve, or Bob in Spartanburg. Hard working Americans who have agreed to stay non union all seemed happy, and competent to turn the screws they have been told to do in their little micro world on the assembly line. When I was touring the plant I witnessed the assembly line shut down and when I asked what the problem was an hourly worker on the line is empowered to stop the entire line if there is any issue in quality or production, and one of the men in front of me installing the dash had done just that. We love you Joe, Steve, Bob.
And Sally!
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      11-10-2011, 10:49 AM   #72
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It could be any car... I had a 2007 brand new Discovery 3 (LR3) and went back to the workshop for faults and gearbox issues 11 times before i got rid after 12 months. The service centre at Stratstone even knew me by nane and could recognise my voice on the phone!!!!
Unfortunately Land rovers are "Renowned" as being of crap build and unreliable.
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      11-10-2011, 10:51 AM   #73
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And Sally!
and of course Micky mouse and Big Ears.
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      11-11-2011, 05:16 AM   #74
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Unfortunately Land rovers are "Renowned" as being of crap build and unreliable.
i soon found that out!
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      11-11-2011, 11:45 PM   #75
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I am wary, though, about premium products being built by people who haven't yet had the opportunity to experience ownership of those premium products.
Maybe if you got a job working on the production line you would have an appreciation for what it takes to do a good job, actually earn real money, and understand at ground level how capitalism works rather than being a theoretical student of what purports to the real world for you.
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      11-12-2011, 12:51 AM   #76
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This is all about quality control and ill-advised trust in machines. I don't care what it does for BMW's ad campaign; I don't want middle and lower-class Americans building foreign cars they will never have the opportunity to own.
While it's true that more often than not workers/employees could care less about how good of a product or service they putting out and are more considered about doing the bare minimum I fail to see how just because a person can't afford a certain thing that they are producing means that they are creating an inferior product.

By your definition wouldn't products such as Rolls-Royce cars or Hermes items be considered expensive and crappy just because the people making them can't afford a $250k car or $20k watch?
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      11-12-2011, 01:01 AM   #77
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johnbmw6, is there any news regarding your car?
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      11-12-2011, 02:34 AM   #78
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johnbmw6, is there any news regarding your car?
I have been offered "Compensation" and the parts are supposed to be in today, I have not had this confirmed as the dealers is closed as we speak, work (in theory) should start Monday.
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      11-13-2011, 01:11 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
Maybe if you got a job working on the production line you would have an appreciation for what it takes to do a good job, actually earn real money, and understand at ground level how capitalism works rather than being a theoretical student of what purports to the real world for you.
You may be right, that I somehow must walk in their shoes for a day to really have any argument at all, but I never said they are definitely this way or that. Based on statistical analyses in human behavior and attitudes, something I, to your surprise I am sure, have studied much about, I am making conjecture as to the way producing and earning affects the attitudes of those who complete such tasks on a daily basis.

I may very well be an asshole, and just as well I may be less useful to society, let alone this argument, than a doorknob. But then put yourself in my position. Something you've looked forward to for a year arrives, and it is not the way it was promised. Give it 6 months, half of which were spent without it, and it still doesn't work. Then you get another one, and it still isn't the way it was supposed to be. Now you tell me, who should I blame? Tell me, how would you feel if you were just that lucky to have that happen to you?

You can excuse my claims against hardworking Americans, though. I will admit that was inappropriate and childish, and in despair, I cannot help but be a tad hyperbolic.
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      11-13-2011, 01:16 PM   #80
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Sorry for stealing this thread's Elvis. I hadn't realized he wasn't ready to leave the building.
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      11-14-2011, 03:05 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
You may be right, that I somehow must walk in their shoes for a day to really have any argument at all, but I never said they are definitely this way or that. Based on statistical analyses in human behavior and attitudes, something I, to your surprise I am sure, have studied much about, I am making conjecture as to the way producing and earning affects the attitudes of those who complete such tasks on a daily basis.

I may very well be an asshole, and just as well I may be less useful to society, let alone this argument, than a doorknob. But then put yourself in my position. Something you've looked forward to for a year arrives, and it is not the way it was promised. Give it 6 months, half of which were spent without it, and it still doesn't work. Then you get another one, and it still isn't the way it was supposed to be. Now you tell me, who should I blame? Tell me, how would you feel if you were just that lucky to have that happen to you?

You can excuse my claims against hardworking Americans, though. I will admit that was inappropriate and childish, and in despair, I cannot help but be a tad hyperbolic.
I above many on these forums hear where your coming from, and sympathise whole heartedly with your feelings.
I am feeling "Let Down" by BMW the so called "Drivers Car producer".
It seems to me since owning the E90 2010 M3 that BMW have "Dropped the ball" and have moved as others have suggested into the realms of Mercedes and the like, producing cars of less driver specific and more mass cruiser style. The worst part of all though Becoming poorly on the reliability front. Sorry this could be my last.
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      11-14-2011, 01:27 PM   #82
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There are two issues here:
Complexity of car construction: pretty much every car manufacturer tests components in isolation with suppliers and on test mules. So you know the failure rate before you start production. Production itself is piloted to iron out glitches in process and quality. But regardless of whether you are a small or very large manufacturer the first year of production usually sees a drop in quality and an increase in the number of reported faults. This isn't news, which is why people recommend waiting until the second year of production.

Workers these days are provided with so many failsafes that you have to consciously decide to screw up production for that to happen. Most workers in the new auto plants across the US are happy to have well paid jobs and are also happy to work on a brand they can be proud of. BMW fits that mould. So it's hard to see a sense of resentment there when you talk to people on the line. It's also even harder to imagine them deliberately sabotaging the line.

In the end errors will happen. What is more important is how the company handles these errors once the customer has complained. Denial, slow delivery of replacement parts, time of the road are all key factors in why companies get low satisfaction ratings. In this respect BMW has failed, even if the failures are a tiny proportion of the total production run to date.
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      11-15-2011, 09:56 AM   #83
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Latest software Code: ISTA/P 2.44 11/2011
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      11-15-2011, 03:22 PM   #84
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Latest software Code: ISTA/P 2.44 11/2011
John, is the part for your car in yet? and if so, when can you expect to eventually have the car home??
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      11-15-2011, 03:57 PM   #85
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John, is the part for your car in yet? and if so, when can you expect to eventually have the car home??
Picked her up today, drives well as expected, new software loaded on the car.
One thing though the Stop/Start did not work on the way home, the engineer said because the new software was just loaded,it may take a few miles to settle!. Is this Bull?.
Time will tell.
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      11-16-2011, 07:22 AM   #86
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Picked her up today, drives well as expected, new software loaded on the car.
One thing though the Stop/Start did not work on the way home, the engineer said because the new software was just loaded,it may take a few miles to settle!. Is this Bull?.
Time will tell.
glad to hear that you're eventually allowed to play with your new toy fingers crossed that you won't experience any further problems!
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      11-16-2011, 10:44 AM   #87
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glad to hear that you're eventually allowed to play with your new toy fingers crossed that you won't experience any further problems!
All working like clockwork now did some cross country miles today handled a treat and loads of grunt.
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      11-16-2011, 08:09 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
There are two issues here:
Complexity of car construction: pretty much every car manufacturer tests components in isolation with suppliers and on test mules. So you know the failure rate before you start production. Production itself is piloted to iron out glitches in process and quality. But regardless of whether you are a small or very large manufacturer the first year of production usually sees a drop in quality and an increase in the number of reported faults. This isn't news, which is why people recommend waiting until the second year of production.

Workers these days are provided with so many failsafes that you have to consciously decide to screw up production for that to happen. Most workers in the new auto plants across the US are happy to have well paid jobs and are also happy to work on a brand they can be proud of. BMW fits that mould. So it's hard to see a sense of resentment there when you talk to people on the line. It's also even harder to imagine them deliberately sabotaging the line.

In the end errors will happen. What is more important is how the company handles these errors once the customer has complained. Denial, slow delivery of replacement parts, time of the road are all key factors in why companies get low satisfaction ratings. In this respect BMW has failed, even if the failures are a tiny proportion of the total production run to date.
Nobody said anything about workers deliberately sabotaging the line. My implication was only to the extent that they might exhibit a lack of motivation due to an incredibly standardized job description to begin with.

Nonetheless, I see your point. It's upsetting to see things like "I love my new X3 and it doesn't have any problems," threads, because those with problems--like myself--are not attacking those without problems, but that thread is a clear strike back at an initial strike that never really happened. And you can also imagine my discontent with the fact that your 2011 doesn't have problems but both of my 2011's do/did. As you can tell, I'm hardheaded , but clearly I'm too hardheaded to let go of having an X3, because I do love it (I'll lemon this one if I have to--I love it that much).

Know, though, that I intend not to undermine the credibility of the purchases we've all made, problems or not. This isn't personal. It's just my luck, that's all.

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