[Portimao318]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

Definitely a pessimist and also a worrier I fear. Get over it and have a positive point of view. If you cannot, flog your car and get a cheap 1 litre petrol car.

Taxes will NOT rise because the EU have a problem. We along with Germany are one of the few net contributors to the EU. We will be listened to. I fear you are not digesting what I previously said about cleaner diesels.

Nobody, I will say that again Nobody will tax cars any higher just because they are diesels, especially because they will be as clean as petrols in the very near future.

Sorry to be optimistic, my glass is always half full.

Endre2

Do us a favour and stop posting vested interest political rubbish. It has nothing to do with diesel engines in cars.

Dear Peter, I will post whatever I want !

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/gr...iesel-vehicles

To me, frankly, it has nothing to do with clean or not clean engines. It's just a way of ANY gouvernment to generate extra TAX income. And what is easier than get money from motorists? Has nothing to do with Brussels /EU.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by Endre2

Dear Peter, I will post whatever I want !

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/gr...iesel-vehicles

To me, frankly, it has nothing to do with clean or not clean engines. It's just a way of ANY gouvernment to generate extra TAX income. And what is easier than get money from motorists? Has nothing to do with Brussels /EU.

Now completely read and understand what you have posted. Perhaps you do not understand? I am sure you do not because of the way you have posted it.

It is completely politically driven by the local labour party. In fact it is a bigoted response made up of 48 councillors of which 48 are labour and 1 green. It is only 1 small part of London.

Now you can see why they [Labour] were voted out of office. They do not appeal to the broad spectrum of voters and you can see why.

Yes... post what you like, but please make sense to back up your argument, not with links from Cranks from North London. Remember also the link is the view of one Journalist who gathered information and used it to make a name for himself.

Anyway, as more rubbish is going to posted like this when manufacturers are clearly going in the opposite direction, I see no point in answering any more posts just to defend the position of all manufacturers of diesel engines.

Thanks

[Portimao318]

I understood what I posted (although it's true, I am not very aware of the British politics), and I understand it is just one article. But it's one of many examples all over Europe, including in the UK, that certain people keep seeing Diesel cars as "the bad guys" for air pollution. I agree totally with you, that modern diesel cars do not cause any problems for the environment!

Still : ANY petrol car runs smoother than a similar diesel engine. No matter how good the insulation, a diesel car will always sound like a tractor, be it an expensive one. It's because of the way a diesel engine is constructed.
And although diesel engines get better, so do petrol engines....

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by Endre2

I understood what I posted (although it's true, I am not very aware of the British politics), and I understand it is just one article. But it's one of many examples all over Europe, including in the UK, that certain people keep seeing Diesel cars as "the bad guys" for air pollution. I agree totally with you, that modern diesel cars do not cause any problems for the environment!

Still : ANY petrol car runs smoother than a similar diesel engine. No matter how good the insulation, a diesel car will always sound like a tractor, be it an expensive one. It's because of the way a diesel engine is constructed.
And although diesel engines get better, so do petrol engines....

British politics are fundamentally the same as anywhere in Europe and there will always be what I consider to be 'green politics', which is always a good excuse for higher taxes etc..

I completely agree with your sentiments on diesel engines even though I have a diesel.

Ian

[FSociety]

They need to bring the 35d to the X3 in the usa already!
I don't want to switch to the 535d

[gIzzE]

Whatever the facts are, I doubt very much you will be able to buy a 'domestic' diesel vehicle in 15 years time, they will be extinct.

IMHO the reason for buying one, saving fuel, is getting less and less, and the benefits of diesel ........"ohh but I love the torque' ..........is becoming a non issue with loads of new petrols being forced induced anyway.

I have owned enough of the same car now in their diesel and petrol guise to realise the difference in cost saving is so small that it really makes very little sense.

So I'm one of the strange ones who hope their is a push against them, they stink, they are noisy and they ruin 'luxury marques' imho.
The fact you can't even buy a petrol X3 in the UK is a sad state of affairs, idiots doing sub 10k miles buying diesels have ruined it, sooner they realise there is no financial gain by going derv the better.

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

Whatever the facts are, I doubt very much you will be able to buy a 'domestic' diesel vehicle in 15 years time, they will be extinct.

IMHO the reason for buying one, saving fuel, is getting less and less, and the benefits of diesel ........"ohh but I love the torque' ..........is becoming a non issue with loads of new petrols being forced induced anyway.

I have owned enough of the same car now in their diesel and petrol guise to realise the difference in cost saving is so small that it really makes very little sense.

So I'm one of the strange ones who hope their is a push against them, they stink, they are noisy and they ruin 'luxury marques' imho.
The fact you can't even buy a petrol X3 in the UK is a sad state of affairs, idiots doing sub 10k miles buying diesels have ruined it, sooner they realise there is no financial gain by going derv the better.

I tend to agree although I am one of those who does less than 10k a year, but I didn't have a petrol choice in the X3. Over the coming years I think there will be more emphasis on petrol engines due to the stigma attached to diesel cars (unfairly so on modern engines).

[gIzzE]

I am in a diesel too, but the cost savings for me doing 20k miles a year down from 40k miles a year are pretty small.

[clivem2]

I've not done the arithmetic as there's little point as we can't get a petrol X3 in the UK....my 35D gives me 33mpg overall, my old 335i vert gave me 21mpg overall. One thing my Euro 6 diesel does have is bucket loads of torque, which i feel suits the car.

[Portimao318]

But why is it that you can get a petrol engine (in UK) in the X1, X5 and X6 , but not in a X3 and X4?

What would be the reason for that than ?

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by Endre2

But why is it that you can get a petrol engine (in UK) in the X1, X5 and X6 , but not in a X3 and X4?

What would be the reason for that than ?

Either BMW decided not enough people would buy them or....and I don't know the answer...are X3s available in right hand drive anywhere?

[FSociety]

Regardless there is saving with Diesel in the US over Petrol as I always see Diesel prices in NorthEast 5 to 20 cents cheaper than Premium Gas, sometimes same price as 89 (Middle Grade). The advantage of not having to fill up as often as you do with Petrol, the torque is better too.

You guys with diesel will soon wish you were back in the diesel after you go into these new Petrol. I know someone with a 28d (lame) but is almost like a 28i and drives harder than me and doesnt get lower than 25mpg. When I try to drive like a grandma and can only get 27-28 if its 100% highway.

[Portimao318]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

Regardless there is saving with Diesel in the US over Petrol as I always see Diesel prices in NorthEast 5 to 20 cents cheaper than Premium Gas, sometimes same price as 89 (Middle Grade). The advantage of not having to fill up as often as you do with Petrol, the torque is better too.

You guys with diesel will soon wish you were back in the diesel after you go into these new Petrol. I know someone with a 28d (lame) but is almost like a 28i and drives harder than me and doesnt get lower than 25mpg. When I try to drive like a grandma and can only get 27-28 if its 100% highway.

I never understood why anyone in USA would want a diesel, for the price for petrol is so low. It's almost for free. Who cares than about MPG ? (unless you really drive a lot).

I have been driving diesel cars for 20 years, and I am very glad that I have a petrol X3 now. It's so silent.
I am so glad that there's no more tractor sound every morning ! A Diesel has better torque, that's correct. But that only matters when pulling a heavy trailer.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by Endre2

I never understood why anyone in USA would want a diesel, for the price for petrol is so low. It's almost for free. Who cares than about MPG ? (unless you really drive a lot).

I have been driving diesel cars for 20 years, and I am very glad that I have a petrol X3 now. It's so silent.
I am so glad that there's no more tractor sound every morning ! A Diesel has better torque, that's correct. But that only matters when pulling a heavy trailer.

Yea but in NorthEast Diesel is same price as 89 octane (middle grade) where Premium is 10-30 cents more than Diesel or 89.
Sometimes depending on the week Diesel is 10 cents less than Premium.

Over here the N20 engine (28i) sounds just like a Diesel or a Rav4 4cyl lol.
Its great to see F15 35d outrun F15 35i and still get better MPG.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

Over here the N20 engine (28i) sounds just like a Diesel

To a certain extent I have to agree. I have friends in the Caribbean who are in the Canadian embassy and they have that engine in their X3. I was surprised how much it rattled. It sounds like the noise is from the injectors.

With regards to the X3 having a petrol engine in the UK, perhaps it will eventually. I see the Hybrid X5 when it is released in the UK is going to have the 2.8i engine with Lithium batteries in the underfloor of the cargo bay.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

Its great to see F15 35d outrun F15 35i and still get better MPG.

Am I correct in thinking the F15 35d is what is called a 30d in Europe? Ie single turbo vs euro 35d twin turbo. The twin turbo 35d is yet more interesting!

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

You guys with diesel will soon wish you were back in the diesel after you go into these new Petrol. I know someone with a 28d (lame) but is almost like a 28i and drives harder than me and doesnt get lower than 25mpg. When I try to drive like a grandma and can only get 27-28 if its 100% highway.

Even with the sixes the petrols are smoother at idle though with s/s idling happens less nowadays. With Fours the differences are much greater. The 30d and 35d X3s are good options, not that in the UK I have petrol as an option. When I ran a 335i vert, 60kg lighter than my X3, I achieved fuel economy 2/3rds of what I get with my 35d.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by clivem2

I've not done the arithmetic as there's little point as we can't get a petrol X3 in the UK....my 35D gives me 33mpg overall, my old 335i vert gave me 21mpg overall. One thing my Euro 6 diesel does have is bucket loads of torque, which i feel suits the car.

For someone doing 10,000 miles a year, that means the 335i is costing you around £47 a week on in fuel and the X3 diesel is costing you around £33 a week.

When you consider a new 335i vert or X3 30d is depreciating at around £5-600 a month and is costing another £30 in servicing and tyres, you are taking about the difference of £750 a month vs £700 a month.
The difference in overall cost really is pretty small, the main problem is you see what you put in at the pump every time you fill up, the other costs you sort of don't notice.


I have had a few cars that are very similar and I have found the difference in mpg is getting smaller and smaller.

My 535d sport touring returned 27mpg average, my 335i sport touring also returned 27mpg average.

My 3.2fsi A6 Quattro avant returned 28mpg average, the 3.0tdi quattro avant returned 31mpg average.

I borrowed a new A3 2.0tdi one Sunday and did my 90 mile round trip commute, it returned 44.3mpg, the following week I borrowed the 1.4tfsi and doing the exact same run it returned........44.8mpg!
And was so much nicer to drive, nicer gear change, nicer clutch, handled much better.

The guy down the road from me has gone from a 535d SE into a 550i, he was seeing 33mpg average in the 535d and is seeing 29mpg average in the 550i.


It is the short rev range and large amounts of torque that ultimately I get bored of, I prefer to have to work my engine a bit when pressing on and it being lazy when wafting, but that is not really petrol vs diesel, that is FI vs NA.

When I first swapped to diesel it was a no brainer, 1.8 A4 vs 1.9tdi, both 110bhp, but the diesel saw 55mpg and the petrol 25mpg, so it made a lot of sense, especially as I was doing 40k miles a year.
But modern diesels with all their green nonsense like DPFs etc. are doing worse mpg wise while petrols are getting better and better.

Mercedes are about to launch a range of new straight six lightweight petrols, 2.2 litre and up to 3.5 litre, they are meant to be incredibly efficient and smooth as silk, will be interesting to see how they do in the real world.

[clivem2]

8

Originally Posted by gIzzE

When you consider a new 335i vert or X3 30d is depreciating at around £5-600 a month and is costing another £30 in servicing and tyres, you are taking about the difference of £750 a month vs £700 a month.

It gets complicated! I lease my cars, the X3 lease is £150 per month less than the vert but the X3 list price was considerably higher than the vert.

Btw i get a great personal lease deal with salary sacrifice avoiding NI. The cost of my X3 35d with road fund lic, full servicing and tyres is very close to your depreciation figures!

I'm not arguing strongly for diesel, i just didn't have a choice in the UK. For my local driving though I found the 335i vert very very thirsty, even worse than a cold diesel. The 335i needed motorway trips to deliver decent economy.

[gIzzE]

The e92 Vert is very fuel heavy regardless of engine, I know many diesel owners used to moan too.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

The e92 Vert is very fuel heavy regardless of engine, I know many diesel owners used to moan too.

??

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

My 535d sport touring returned 27mpg average, my 335i sport touring also returned 27mpg average.

I'm intrigued by your figures, they show how different usages give wildly differing results. It's hard of course to make comparisons with different cars but even so....for me to achieve 27mpg in my X3 35D I would need to be on the motorway cruising at 90mph+, which nowadays few people do due to cameras. Alternatively I would need to be driving really hard over local roads and probably with a cold engine and in the winter too.

With my manual 335i vert I found local driving to be really thirsty which resulted in 21mpg overall. Motorways were fine, giving mid-30s. Town driving well....mid to high teens were typical. Given the sort of car the 335i was I was probably driving faster more consistently than I do with the X3.