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      11-17-2015, 08:29 PM   #1
happy_chrissy
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Maintenance interval

Where do I find in the manual what items need to be changed or replaced on the car at different intervals. You know some manufacturers have a list of items that needs to be changed/repaired at 20k, 40k, 60k, 100k miles etc? I just want to plan ahead if I don't buy the extended maintenance coverage.
Such as brake pads and brake discs?
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      11-18-2015, 12:10 AM   #2
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BMW are Wise Guys - they don`t supply maintenance scheme - they have built that into the electronics, saying that "electronics" will monitor behaviour and adjust intervalls accordingly - halfway true - halfway Bull

Anyway - electronics will tell you when to do what!
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      11-18-2015, 05:00 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
BMW are Wise Guys - they don`t supply maintenance scheme - they have built that into the electronics, saying that "electronics" will monitor behaviour and adjust intervalls accordingly - halfway true - halfway Bull

Anyway - electronics will tell you when to do what!
In my view it is completely true. It is called "on condition". If you can post the condition where it is "half way Bull", I will read through your reasoning and see if it makes sense to me.
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      11-18-2015, 05:54 AM   #4
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Peter, main reason for changing brake fluid is that, in time, there will be water in the fluid, and when going down an extreme downhill run in Austria - where "all" manufacturers are testing- there might be a brake failure because of boiling water= steam. Everybody else - not going that run - is far from boiling brake fluid.

BMW requires that brake fluid should be exchanged every second year - or so. They give the reason that Bosch requires this. Bosch did not require this for the manufacturer I worked for.

In my eyes this is Bull. Especially since it is possibel to measure content of water in the fluid - and change if needed.

The "secret" service intervalls is one of few things I don`t like with my BMW.
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      11-18-2015, 06:20 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
Bosch did not require this for the manufacturer I worked for.
So what? Not relevant to BMW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
In my eyes this is Bull. Especially since it is possibel to measure content of water in the fluid - and change if needed.
So you and every other client is going to send the sample away and pay for the analysis? It costs a lot more to do that than pay for the fluid change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
The "secret" service intervalls is one of few things I don`t like with my BMW.
There is no such thing. Service intervals are based on experience derived from samples taken over years and tested by fluid manufacturers for quality.

How do I know all this and keep challenging all the stuff that ill informed people post about how bad BMW and other manufacturers are when it comes to servicing. Well, just a small piece of information should suffice.

For 5 years I headed the Royal Air Force Spectrometric Oil Analysis Program in the MOD DQATS Laboratory in Woolwich in London. Known as the RAF SOAP Laboratory. We analysed ALL oil, fuel and hydraulic samples that we taken from ALL fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft every 50 flying hours. We also did the same for vehicles and Battle Tanks. From the data obtained from burning these samples on Spectrometers we built up the largest database in the world and we used this data to create algorithms for servicing. The information was used to create "on condition" monitoring for components. This basic data is still used and is "tweaked" as fluids are improved over time.

I could go on, but there is no point whatsoever. Every time someone posts that BMW are rubbish at doing this or that, then I say go and show them your scientific analysis to back up your case and challenge theirs.

Thanks
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      11-18-2015, 07:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_R View Post
So what? Not relevant to BMW.


So you and every other client is going to send the sample away and pay for the analysis? It costs a lot more to do that than pay for the fluid change.



There is no such thing. Service intervals are based on experience derived from samples taken over years and tested by fluid manufacturers for quality.

How do I know all this and keep challenging all the stuff that ill informed people post about how bad BMW and other manufacturers are when it comes to servicing. Well, just a small piece of information should suffice.

For 5 years I headed the Royal Air Force Spectrometric Oil Analysis Program in the MOD DQATS Laboratory in Woolwich in London. Known as the RAF SOAP Laboratory. We analysed ALL oil, fuel and hydraulic samples that we taken from ALL fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft every 50 flying hours. We also did the same for vehicles and Battle Tanks. From the data obtained from burning these samples on Spectrometers we built up the largest database in the world and we used this data to create algorithms for servicing. The information was used to create "on condition" monitoring for components. This basic data is still used and is "tweaked" as fluids are improved over time.

I could go on, but there is no point whatsoever. Every time someone posts that BMW are rubbish at doing this or that, then I say go and show them your scientific analysis to back up your case and challenge theirs.

Thanks
The taste test tells me when a specific fluid needs to be changed.
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      11-18-2015, 08:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy_chrissy View Post
Where do I find in the manual what items need to be changed or replaced on the car at different intervals. You know some manufacturers have a list of items that needs to be changed/repaired at 20k, 40k, 60k, 100k miles etc? I just want to plan ahead if I don't buy the extended maintenance coverage.
Such as brake pads and brake discs?
The maintenance schedule is in here:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...antyBooks.aspx
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      11-18-2015, 10:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_R View Post
So what? Not relevant to BMW.


So you and every other client is going to send the sample away and pay for the analysis? It costs a lot more to do that than pay for the fluid change.



There is no such thing. Service intervals are based on experience derived from samples taken over years and tested by fluid manufacturers for quality.

How do I know all this and keep challenging all the stuff that ill informed people post about how bad BMW and other manufacturers are when it comes to servicing. Well, just a small piece of information should suffice.

For 5 years I headed the Royal Air Force Spectrometric Oil Analysis Program in the MOD DQATS Laboratory in Woolwich in London. Known as the RAF SOAP Laboratory. We analysed ALL oil, fuel and hydraulic samples that we taken from ALL fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft every 50 flying hours. We also did the same for vehicles and Battle Tanks. From the data obtained from burning these samples on Spectrometers we built up the largest database in the world and we used this data to create algorithms for servicing. The information was used to create "on condition" monitoring for components. This basic data is still used and is "tweaked" as fluids are improved over time.

I could go on, but there is no point whatsoever. Every time someone posts that BMW are rubbish at doing this or that, then I say go and show them your scientific analysis to back up your case and challenge theirs.

Thanks
Interesting note. One question: why do you think BMW changed the service intervals from 24,000 km for engine oil to 16,000 km going from model year 2013 to model year 2014 in cars with identical equipment and features?
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      11-18-2015, 10:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
Interesting note. One question: why do you think BMW changed the service intervals from 24,000 km for engine oil to 16,000 km going from model year 2013 to model year 2014 in cars with identical equipment and features?
I could ask the same question myself! Sorry I cannot answer for your side of the pond. It was suggested some time back that it might be down to litigation (another forum?) or perhaps feedback from users in North America especially on the N47 engines in the 5 or 3 or 1 series diesel vehicles where there have been timing chain failures. Not many diesels over your side anyway

Are you talking about that problem, or do you have some other problem in mind.

My car being the X3 xDrive30d M Sport has an engine oil change interval of 18000 miles. When I went to have the servicing carried out in October, they advised me that the brake fluid change had been moved from 2 years to 3 years. Not everything makes sense to me.
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      11-18-2015, 12:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The maintenance schedule is in here:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...antyBooks.aspx
2015's are not on the list. that is so strange! it goes from 2014-2016, skipping 2015, I wonder why?
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      11-18-2015, 12:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_R View Post
I could ask the same question myself! Sorry I cannot answer for your side of the pond. It was suggested some time back that it might be down to litigation (another forum?) or perhaps feedback from users in North America especially on the N47 engines in the 5 or 3 or 1 series diesel vehicles where there have been timing chain failures. Not many diesels over your side anyway

Are you talking about that problem, or do you have some other problem in mind.

My car being the X3 xDrive30d M Sport has an engine oil change interval of 18000 miles. When I went to have the servicing carried out in October, they advised me that the brake fluid change had been moved from 2 years to 3 years. Not everything makes sense to me.
I have a 2013 35i. The computer tell you to run 24,000 km between oil services unless the conditions change to make it shorter. ON the 2014 with exact same equipment, they default to 16,000 km instead. Both 2013 and 2014 come with Auto start/stop as well and the engines are identical.

Weird! Must be a litigation thing or something to do with wear that they started to see in higher mileage models.
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      11-18-2015, 01:27 PM   #12
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BMW is great compared to Ford... When I bought my last Ford five years ago, the sales guy told me that the car would tell how often it would be serviced. I read the manual and it said the same thing. So... I followed the recommendation. However, the service department, when I brought the car in said, "you haven't serviced in 12,000km that's a problem" I said, no I followed the manual. There response was "would you trust a computer to check your service interval?" It was insanity.

Anyway, I love my Ford but the service department are morons. They don't even follow their own service recommendations. I'm happy to be moving to BMW where they will actually call me when there is an issue and the service interval seems much longer than the Ford. If they wanted to gauge you on service intervals they would make you come in every 8,000km like my Ford dealer does.
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      11-18-2015, 02:17 PM   #13
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Peter, I dont want to fight you - I believe you make valuable contributions to this forum, and hence this is my last input in this matter. However, even the sun has.....

I have worked with and monitored ABS/ESP development for many years. I can`t, for various reasons go into all details, but you almost admitted yourself that the 2 year mandatory fluid change is Bull - you mentioned that BMW recently went from 2 to 3 years of brakefluid change.

I have strong indications that it would be safe to go to 4-5 years, providing water content is measured -yes it is fairly inexpensive to measure water in the fluid - many non-brand workshops in Sweden do this. The Brand workshops - of course - prefer to change fluid. Water will gather, primarily, in the reservoir and brake cylinders.

According to a source, the German authorities measure water in the reservoir as part of the yearly inspection.

ABS are designed with a certain amount of being foolproof i.e. if system does not work - brakes still function, but no ABS function.

A set of hard brakings will get you warm/hot discs, but cylinders - almost - unaffected.

All in all, this is part of the universal question:shall the owner/independent workshop do any change to instructions or components from the manufacturers. Having worked for many years for a manufacturer, I have a tendency to say no.

There is however one sore point: I have for many years realised that the customers are being taken for a ride with unnecessary brakefluid changes. I have for most times been driving test- and company cars, but have never changed brake fluid on my own cars. That is out of interest, and not something I would recommend.

I have three years of free sevice on my X4 - hopefully that includes change of fluid - then I will wait 5 years - if I keep it that long.

Note: my 9000 Turbo passed the Swedish yearly inspection today - I have had it for 7 years - it is 17 years old - no change of brake fluid during my time. ABS works.
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      11-19-2015, 03:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jponline77 View Post
BMW is great compared to Ford... When I bought my last Ford five years ago, the sales guy told me that the car would tell how often it would be serviced. I read the manual and it said the same thing. So... I followed the recommendation. However, the service department, when I brought the car in said, "you haven't serviced in 12,000km that's a problem" I said, no I followed the manual. There response was "would you trust a computer to check your service interval?" It was insanity.

Anyway, I love my Ford but the service department are morons. They don't even follow their own service recommendations. I'm happy to be moving to BMW where they will actually call me when there is an issue and the service interval seems much longer than the Ford. If they wanted to gauge you on service intervals they would make you come in every 8,000km like my Ford dealer does.
In the 90's Ford did a lot of work on CBM (condition based monitoring) but they found so little was needed it shelved it as it would put the garages out of work.....seemingly BMW pick it up and built in in to their cars so yes the cars do need less servicing but the dealers were able to plan for it better - it is a big selling point the BMW service plans are almost giveaways with new cars - Mercedes are still charging £30 per month!!!
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      11-19-2015, 03:24 AM   #15
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the BMW service plans are almost giveaways with new cars - Mercedes are still charging £30 per month!!!
Absolutely agree. I have always taken the 5 year plan. It is good value even if you are low mileage user, and real bargain if you are a high mileage user.
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      11-19-2015, 03:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
Peter, I dont want to fight you - I believe you make valuable contributions to this forum, and hence this is my last input in this matter. However, even the sun has.....

I have worked with and monitored ABS/ESP development for many years. I can`t, for various reasons go into all details, but you almost admitted yourself that the 2 year mandatory fluid change is Bull - you mentioned that BMW recently went from 2 to 3 years of brakefluid change.

I have strong indications that it would be safe to go to 4-5 years, providing water content is measured -yes it is fairly inexpensive to measure water in the fluid - many non-brand workshops in Sweden do this. The Brand workshops - of course - prefer to change fluid. Water will gather, primarily, in the reservoir and brake cylinders.

According to a source, the German authorities measure water in the reservoir as part of the yearly inspection.

ABS are designed with a certain amount of being foolproof i.e. if system does not work - brakes still function, but no ABS function.

A set of hard brakings will get you warm/hot discs, but cylinders - almost - unaffected.

All in all, this is part of the universal question:shall the owner/independent workshop do any change to instructions or components from the manufacturers. Having worked for many years for a manufacturer, I have a tendency to say no.

There is however one sore point: I have for many years realised that the customers are being taken for a ride with unnecessary brakefluid changes. I have for most times been driving test- and company cars, but have never changed brake fluid on my own cars. That is out of interest, and not something I would recommend.

I have three years of free sevice on my X4 - hopefully that includes change of fluid - then I will wait 5 years - if I keep it that long.

Note: my 9000 Turbo passed the Swedish yearly inspection today - I have had it for 7 years - it is 17 years old - no change of brake fluid during my time. ABS works.
Yes please be careful Tjalle, otherwise Peter_R may start sending you private messages stating how immature you are!

It's been great guys, but unfortunately I shall be leaving this forum due to Peter_R pissing me right off!

All the best with your X3.
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