[powertech83]

So is the car fixed? I'm about to place an order for an X3 and wondering if i should go ahead and order or wait for bmw to iron out the first model year bugs (tho i dont think i can wait THAT long)

[powertech83]

Originally Posted by Lotus7

The problem on my car has not returned in 350 miles since the transfer case replacement. Since the problem was occurring every 200 to 400 miles, hopefully the transfer case replacement has corrected it.

However, I first saw the "Brake, 4X4, stability control warning" problem at 640 miles initially, so I'm not going to say (100%) that it's been fixed. Also, another forum member (Nicktian) has reported the same issue on another thread http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544717 and his started at 4100km (2500 mi).

So far, I've counted (5) people on this forum who have reported the "fault warning" problem. It would be interesting to know how many X3 owners are on this forum, and how many average miles have been accumulated to get some idea of the failure percentage this represents.

I suspect that there are now several hundred X3 owners who visit this forum, so a wild guess might be that this has affected a few percent of the X3s that have been delivered so far. It's also too early to determine if this is strictly a manufacturing fault that occurs early on, or if it is something that we will see more of as people put some real mileage on their cars.

There have certainly been enough of these early "failures" that BMW should have enough feedback to analyze the cause and implement some kind of a correction. Of course, they took years to correct the HPFP problems that thousands of owners were having.

Virtually every major vehicle manufacturer has had recalls for specific problems and many have not surfaced until the cars have been in service for a few years. BMW is no different than Toyota, Accura, Honda, Lexus, Ford, General Motors and almost any other major manufacturer you can name.

You could wait for a 2012 model or a 2013 model, but by then another, completely unrelated issue may pop up. At least, once enough pressure is applied, BMW does seem to reluctantly be willing to apply a repair that works. I suspect that this will become easier for owners as the knowledge of the "fix" becomes more widely disseminated. In addition, I'm following up with my complaint to the NHTSA since this is still a safety issue. So if larger numbers begin to be seen, a real recall may be triggered.

Well said, I hope the transfer case really is the culprit and now it is fixed for good

I am now driving an '01 Mercedes ML320 W163, the car which rank low on any reliability surveys. Although fortunately, during the ownership of the car, I have minimal problems with the car and still running great. It is getting old and it's time for a replacement though, I'm planning to replace it with the X3 2.0 diesel.

I don't think I'm patient enough to wait for MY2012/13 and you're right, another random problem could pop up on those model years, i guess you never know.

Originally Posted by Lotus7

This just demonstrates the true value, more accurately the lack of true value of these surveys. The people filling out the surveys are different; the demographics of the surveyed owners for Porsche and Volkswagen are completely different, no cross-demographic controls are used. This may mean that Porsches actually do have fewer defects, or it may mean that just maybe VW owners are more particular about identifying items as "defects" that a Porsche owner might brush off as being insignificant or might not want to admit occurred with his/her expensive vehicle.

Using the published J. D. Power numbers, one could also say “VW’s have 1.75 X more initial defects than Porsche, but an average Porsche costs 4 X the cost of a VW”, therefore, on a cost or value basis, the VW has many fewer initial problems than Porsche, so is a much better purchase decision.

Lies, dammed lies, and statistics!

Could also because Porsche only has 5 models with, say, 3-4 engine choices each, all considered high end cars and probably has approximately the same level of build quality.. while VW has 9-10 models with various diesel and gasoline engine choices, which build quality may be different between the entry level and the higher end models.. say VW Golf with 1.4 TFSI has a failure related to the engine, it is not happening with Porsche simply because there are no 1.4 TFSI engine in Porsche's line up..
Also look at Toyota and Lexus.. Lexus ranked above average while the parent company Toyota rank below average

[XB101]

I guess we can wait for the 2nd year of the vehicle design to but. As long as the dealer is good with fixing the issues on a timely manner it's fine by me. Do they give you a loaner? I guess that is dealership dependent.

As for the JD Power survey they rated Subaru low but most people I talked to have had good reliability with their car. The ones that have problems are those who mod the vehicle or drive it hard.

[Harplayr]

Originally Posted by XB101

I guess we can wait for the 2nd year of the vehicle design to but. As long as the dealer is good with fixing the issues on a timely manner it's fine by me. Do they give you a loaner? I guess that is dealership dependent.

As for the JD Power survey they rated Subaru low but most people I talked to have had good reliability with their car. The ones that have problems are those who mod the vehicle or drive it hard.

Not the 2010+ Outback.
They have a design flaw in the suspension that causes it to shake at highway speeds. People have been battling that for 2 years now.

I had to use the lemon law to dump my Outback shaker.

Here's some info...

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...-shake-issues/

[MB330]

Just go true all 10 pages!
Lotus, sorry for your trouble and thanks for sharing your experience with this board. I don't know if I was in your shoos , I be calm as you.
Good luck,man and hope that your story end here.

[Bustofa]

Good news!

[sard]

Glad it's finally fixed and thanks for all the updates.

[tuco44]

Originally Posted by Lotus7

We've put 1100 miles on the Red 35i since the transfer case was replaced, and so far, no more "Brake - 4X4 and Stability Control" failure warnings have occurred.

It looks like replacing the (German-made) transfer case has corrected the defect which was happening every 200 to 400 miles.

Once I got the attention of someone with some authority at BMW NA, the repair was handled professionally, but slowly since we had to wait several weeks for the replacement part to be delivered from Germany. It still amazes me that BMW does not maintain a reasonable “spares “ stock in North America.

Maybe it's just Verm Red 35i's that are the problem. Today, after about 1800kms, and almost 2 months, my Verm Red 35i threw the "4x4 error", "DCS malfunction", TPM system malfunction" codes. Was running great, parked to do an errand, and on return, starting was tough, then the codes. Runs fine, other than the damn errors staring me in the face!!!

Taking it in to dealer in AM for quick look at. Not too happy at this point, but at least I have some idea of how the problem has been resolved for other owners (Lotus7, gareth, etc).

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by Lotus7

Absolutly!
On the J.D, Power Survey, all "problems" are given equal weighting so a mis-aligned piece of dash trim counts as much as a blown engine, bad transmission or even a faulty transfer case.

Since the results are approximately "1.1 problems per car", and a lot of people on this forum (100 maybe?) have apparently had no problems, that means there's some poor sucker out there with 100 problems on his X3. After all statistics don't lie!

That sucker is yours truly.

[gareth12468]

Originally Posted by tuco44

Maybe it's just Verm Red 35i's that are the problem. Today, after about 1800kms, and almost 2 months, my Verm Red 35i threw the "4x4 error", "DCS malfunction", TPM system malfunction" codes. Was running great, parked to do an errand, and on return, starting was tough, then the codes. Runs fine, other than the damn errors staring me in the face!!!

Taking it in to dealer in AM for quick look at. Not too happy at this point, but at least I have some idea of how the problem has been resolved for other owners (Lotus7, gareth, etc).

Sorry to hear that.....

[tuco44]

Well, this AM on startup, no codes showing at all.

Had dealer run diagnostics on it anyway. "Appears" to have been an electrical fault due to lower battery levels. All faults cleared from system. I figured it for electrical, as BMWs are now very finicky as to battery levels. It did sit for 9 days recently, and I did not put it on the trickle charger.

All OK for the moment, we will monitor and advise as necessary.

[Razel]

Originally Posted by tuco44

Well, this AM on startup, no codes showing at all.

Had dealer run diagnostics on it anyway. "Appears" to have been an electrical fault due to lower battery levels. All faults cleared from system. I figured it for electrical, as BMWs are now very finicky as to battery levels. It did sit for 9 days recently, and I did not put it on the trickle charger.

All OK for the moment, we will monitor and advise as necessary.

Start by bringing a camera with you so you can photograph it when it happens. The service department will never be able to see it.

[tuco44]

Originally Posted by Razel

Start by bringing a camera with you so you can photograph it when it happens. The service department will never be able to see it.

Yep, roger that.

[gareth12468]

Originally Posted by tuco44

Well, this AM on startup, no codes showing at all.

Had dealer run diagnostics on it anyway. "Appears" to have been an electrical fault due to lower battery levels. All faults cleared from system. I figured it for electrical, as BMWs are now very finicky as to battery levels. It did sit for 9 days recently, and I did not put it on the trickle charger.

All OK for the moment, we will monitor and advise as necessary.

That's the same thing my dealer told me..... Low battery level..... They recharged the battery and no errors so far.....

[Babbage]

OK, just found and read all of this thread. I had just posted my experience in another thread
http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showth...6#post10329846

So add another victim to the list.

Lotus, any news from you? Did this ever re-occur?

I'm particularly worried because I did not lease the car, I bought new with the intent to keep for a while. Now I worry that the transfer case replacement (if it ever gets to that) will cause problems down the line...

[tuco44]

Update to my problem of mid-July as mentioned above by Lotus7: I now have over 4100kms, and is just over 3 months old. Since that problem, which the dealer cleared citing low battery, I have had zero problems. Starts fine and no codes. Another reminder to use the battery trickle charger when the car is sitting for a week or more.

Touch wood...

[Babbage]

Aug. 31, 2011: Got my car back today! Everything seems in order. Hope it holds up.

[frankwin]

I just got the same problem a few days ago. Was driving around 120km/h in the rain then tried to accelerate a bit hard in order to let someone pass me on left lane (yeah funny hey) and then got this error message in iDrive. Suddenly I lost all engine power and my car was driving like if I had a lawnmower engine! This was scary and as soon as I turned off/on the engine, the problem went away. I have about 6000km done so far, first time it happens.

[Babbage]

Well, the problem is back. Multiple warnings: tire pressure, stability control, 4x4, "brake system, drive moderately", ABS, Brake, ...

I sent my error codes from the car to the dealership via the iDrive service request. The dealer says that my computer reports a low battery charge, and that this is the cause of the problem.

I sure hope so, but it's looking more and more like I'll need a new transfer case. I guess I'm in for a lot of back and forth with BMW.

Thankfully it's happening early in the warranty period.

Anyone have any experience with Canadian (quebec) lemon law equivalent procedures?

[frankwin]

Originally Posted by Babbage

Well, the problem is back. Multiple warnings: tire pressure, stability control, 4x4, "brake system, drive moderately", ABS, Brake, ...

Anyone have any experience with Canadian (quebec) lemon law equivalent procedures?

I got the same problem, dealer had never seen it and for sure in my case battery wasn't low, I was driving since 2 hours on highway.

There are no lemon law in Quebec, you are stock with your car.

[Razel]

Originally Posted by Lotus7

Although anything is possible, Unless the car has been sitting undriven for 2 weeks, the error message probably has nothing to do with a low battery charge. Did the "multiple error warning" disapear when you stopped and restarted the car?

All you can do is insist that having the warnings are unacceptable and get the dealer to look into the other most likely cause i.e.: the electronic torque sensor in the transfer case.

Good Luck!

Originally Posted by frankwin

I got the same problem, dealer had never seen it and for sure in my case battery wasn't low, I was driving since 2 hours on highway.

There are no lemon law in Quebec, you are stock with your car.

Two things you might consider. Most of which is derived from the whole thread. It's a warranty item. They are obligated to fix it. Lemon-law, if it's allowed, generally requires a number of repair visits to be enacted. While BMW isn't 100% behind doing it themselves, if presented right, they may do a buy-back.
The other item here is what is wrong. Right now, it's an unsafe situation with the display showing multiple alarms, when nothing is wrong. More likely than not, it's the transfer case. I'd not mention the transfer case to the dealer, just that the alarm condition needs to be addressed and fixed quickly, as the car is claiming it's unsafe to drive normally and while that's not the case, you can no longer trust the vehicle to report issues properly.
The transfer case being the cause is most likely not known to the service department and your information source is the internet; once they get their nose turned to the internet, BMW and BMW dealers dismiss it outright. It then takes more methodical work, and time, getting them to consider that they're wrong, and then find the right resource that will get them pointed to the right place.

My 2 cents, anyway.

[Babbage]

Originally Posted by frankwin

I got the same problem, ...
There are no lemon law in Quebec, you are stock with your car.

I see that it happened 3 weeks ago in your case. Any updates?

By the way, I looked up CanVAP ( http://www.camvap.ca/ ) but BMW is NOT a participant in this program. So, if things go really wrong, my only recourse will be going to court.