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      03-12-2011, 05:29 AM   #23
jaymk5
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Originally Posted by bsilk904 View Post
New to BMW ,
Has this $600 BMW mico fee always been around.I paid 400 over invoice plus that fee. Just curious . Good luck to everyone ,you've all made a great choice.
it's a maco fee actually, and I think some states charge this, in MN it's 250, but 600 seems to be way high.
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      03-12-2011, 05:42 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MA78 View Post
Not sure if it matters. But what's the point in waiting? Wear them down.
Until I need to get my car fixed and they pee in my radiator...
.

I think your deal is pretty decent, no body knows your trade in better than you, so first think to yourself if you will get the same money that is offered today by your dealer for the trade in when you go to an other dealer, only way to get an answer for this is to try out other dealers, second I won't mess up with the dealer and spoil the relationship just for few hundred bucks, so in my opinion you should first try to get a better deal from a diff dealership first, suppose you get one then see how much he is paying for your trade in if the overall deal is better, then next question should be, how far is that new low price dealer from your house and are you ready to travel that long not only for delivery, but every time you needed some thing to be taken care in person on your vehicle, I know you can go to the local dealer for service but you will need the dealership for more than that, remember your first oil change service is going to be on 15 k miles, so what if you need to go to the dealer 3 or 4 times before that for any issues. So all I am saying is we all can give you suggestions but you will know your situation better than any one else, so weigh in pluses and minus of the local and new low pixe dealer then take your next action. Incase luckily you get another near by dealer with low price then you can certainly walk into your current dealer and ask him to match up otherwise walk away.
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      03-12-2011, 06:31 AM   #25
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This site adds about $2-3k to your end price. So you did good not coming here.
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      03-12-2011, 07:29 AM   #26
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Whenever you scan Internet forums and the like, you will always find people who have received a better deal than you.

But also, sometimes people fib a little bit and really, at the end of the day - if YOU are happy with the deal and YOU are happy with the car then you got a good deal.

I knew the invoice, I used the Amex service and could have saved $200-400 with a dealer 1 hour away. Instead I 'spent' the money to buy locally (just placed final order yesterday) and its been great.

My Service Advisor calls me whenever a new X3 comes in so I can see the colors, try out the sport seats (I was debating about the sport package) and emailed me right away for the $500 gift card coming up.

So in my mind, the money is well spent to pay a bit more for the car.

And really, in 3/4/5 years, it won't really matter too much if you 'overpaid' by 300 or $400... Yes, that is real money - a few amazing dinners, 1/2 an option package, etc.. But again, in my mind, if you are happy with the deal and car then its money well spent.
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      03-13-2011, 09:05 PM   #27
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Just remember, if you can pick up the car in SC, pay cash, and have no trade, you can buy the car anywhere in the US. Never have to go the dealer. Just a couple of phone calls. The service guys don't care where you bought the car. Heck, people move.
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      03-14-2011, 03:12 PM   #28
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Just curious, but what about simply honoring the deal and agreement you & the dealer agreed to? Is your word not that important?
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      03-14-2011, 05:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dbtheo View Post
Just curious, but what about simply honoring the deal and agreement you & the dealer agreed to? Is your word not that important?
That's an interesting response. I think a bit of adverse selection is at play between a dealer and a buyer when there is haggling involved. Don't you? "Honor" isn't the question here, "Did the dealer have better information than me when we priced out the new car?" is.
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      03-14-2011, 05:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bluesmachine View Post

And really, in 3/4/5 years, it won't really matter too much if you 'overpaid' by 300 or $400... Yes, that is real money - a few amazing dinners, 1/2 an option package,
... two or three tanks of gas.
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      03-14-2011, 10:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abailey08 View Post
That's an interesting response. I think a bit of adverse selection is at play between a dealer and a buyer when there is haggling involved. Don't you? "Honor" isn't the question here, "Did the dealer have better information than me when we priced out the new car?" is.
Maybe the dealer did, maybe they didn't, but regardless a deal was struck no? My point is, if in fact a deal was made, buyers orders signed etc. Then effectively you gave your word. What would you say if the dealer called you back and said, "you know, I think we paid too much for your trade in" ?
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      03-14-2011, 10:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dbtheo View Post
Just curious, but what about simply honoring the deal and agreement you & the dealer agreed to? Is your word not that important?


Oh, were you serious?
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      03-14-2011, 10:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by MA78 View Post


Oh, were you serious?
Call me old fashioned... but even from my side of the desk, I keep my word, even if it doesn't always benefit me or if I made a mistake. Personally I happen to think thats an important part of who I am. Doesn't mean it needs to be for you, what ever works for you have at it
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      03-14-2011, 11:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtheo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by abailey08 View Post
That's an interesting response. I think a bit of adverse selection is at play between a dealer and a buyer when there is haggling involved. Don't you? "Honor" isn't the question here, "Did the dealer have better information than me when we priced out the new car?" is.
Maybe the dealer did, maybe they didn't, but regardless a deal was struck no? My point is, if in fact a deal was made, buyers orders signed etc. Then effectively you gave your word. What would you say if the dealer called you back and said, "you know, I think we paid too much for your trade in" ?
I would say it all comes down to options in life for any dealer you are not the only person to whom he can sell his car, same time for any buyer he has so many dealers he can go to. If that is the case then why would any one has to pay more, agreed we should do the homework before signing on the deal, but if we find a better deal it's never too late. These days we get low price guarantee on most of the products we buy. Idea is a buyer should be happy about his purchase, this does not mean seller is loosing money, he is actually sharing his profit with the buyer. So I would say if he finds a better deal then it's pretty decent to ask the dealer to match the price.
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      03-14-2011, 11:40 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtheo View Post
Maybe the dealer did, maybe they didn't, but regardless a deal was struck no? My point is, if in fact a deal was made, buyers orders signed etc. Then effectively you gave your word. What would you say if the dealer called you back and said, "you know, I think we paid too much for your trade in" ?
Just to be clear, you seem to be saying, regardless of asymmetric information, if you "promised" someone that you would do X, you should follow through with that promise, right? That's laudable (and impressive), but I don't think it is good practice 100% of the time (or any time when one person knows more than the other and/or there are incentives to lie or leave out information).

Putting in the appropriate variables of discussion:

Regardless of asymmetric information (maybe the dealer had better information, maybe they didn't, regardless, a deal was struck), if I signed an order form for a car which is in essence a promise to buy the car, I should buy the car regardless of whether or not I find that other people got a better price, because I gave my word.

I know we won't agree, but that seems inflexible. Taking this a bit off topic, and making it extreme to make my point:

I am selling my used car to a 16 year old kid for $15,000, knowing that some X component sometimes doesn't work well. I don't tell him that (asymmetric information), and he says he'll buy the car at that price, but needs to go to the bank to get cash. He comes back after talking to a mechanic about the experience, and the mechanic points out that there might be something wrong with the car. You think he should still buy the car for $15,000, after gathering more information, just because he gave his "word"?

Last edited by abailey08; 03-14-2011 at 11:59 PM..
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      03-15-2011, 06:40 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abailey08 View Post
if I signed an order form for a car which is in essence a promise to buy the car, I should buy the car regardless of whether or not I find that other people got a better price, because I gave my word.
... some X component sometimes doesn't work well.
In one case, you're talking about a hidden defect. In that case, it's real asymmetric information.

The fact that someone else got a better deal is NOT asymmetric information. As far as price goes, the only question is "Were you happy with the price you paid at the time you signed the contract?".

I enter into lots of contracts in my business, at different prices to different people. I live up to my engagements. I expect that people live up to their engagements. I enforce my contacts in court otherwise.
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      03-15-2011, 10:15 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Babbage View Post
In one case, you're talking about a hidden defect. In that case, it's real asymmetric information.

The fact that someone else got a better deal is NOT asymmetric information. As far as price goes, the only question is "Were you happy with the price you paid at the time you signed the contract?".

I enter into lots of contracts in my business, at different prices to different people. I live up to my engagements. I expect that people live up to their engagements. I enforce my contacts in court otherwise.

Contracts are different than car orders, I have to point out. If I signed something binding me to the purchase of the car, then we would be talking on the same level.

re: definition of asymmetrical information - It doesn't have to be "hidden" or otherwise unobtainable information to be asymmetrical. It just has to create a bad market (someone ends up paying over or under what the product is really worth to the individual given complete information to both parties).

Regardless, let's change the hypothetical:

-I know the KBB of the car is $12,000, I sell it for $15,000
-I sell it to a 16 year old kid who promises to buy the car and needs to go to the bank
-Kid meets parents at the bank, who say the car isn't worth that much
-Kid comes back, and says "I'll give you $12,000 for it."

In the normal world where haggling is acceptable, that doesn't seem like a rescind of offer, but simply a matter of the kid getting better information. I can walk away from the deal (as my BMW dealer can), but I can also accept. There's no loss here, I was trying to sell something for X amount over the value, that's my problem.

Anyway, dealer can call "foul" at any point and refuse to sell me the car. That seems reasonable. But to say, "You may feel like you ended up making a bad deal, and may have, in fact, paid more than a number of members on this forum (maybe the majority of people in your city, but you wouldn't know that because that information isn't given to you), but because you promised, you have to follow through" seems pretty unreasonable.
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      03-15-2011, 10:16 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtheo View Post
Call me old fashioned... but even from my side of the desk, I keep my word, even if it doesn't always benefit me or if I made a mistake. Personally I happen to think thats an important part of who I am. Doesn't mean it needs to be for you, what ever works for you have at it
If I had an SA who gave me his word that I was getting the best price available, I'd think the same. But my experience has been somewhat to the contrary. There is no contract, no deal or agreement until we swap keys and sign papers.
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      03-15-2011, 01:57 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by MA78 View Post
If I had an SA who gave me his word that I was getting the best price available, I'd think the same. But my experience has been somewhat to the contrary. There is no contract, no deal or agreement until we swap keys and sign papers.
Well sure it's different if you are lied to or mislead. Or as the OP used in his example, if something was wrong with the product. Then of course, all bets are off. But if, as it appears in the original post, that the op and the dealer agreed to specific price point above invoice. The OP didn't paint the dealer as dishonest, or that they withheld info from. The op just seems to have a case of buyers remorse.
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      03-15-2011, 03:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by dbtheo View Post
Well sure it's different if you are lied to or mislead. Or as the OP used in his example, if something was wrong with the product. Then of course, all bets are off. But if, as it appears in the original post, that the op and the dealer agreed to specific price point above invoice. The OP didn't paint the dealer as dishonest, or that they withheld info from. The op just seems to have a case of buyers remorse.
No remorse! Just want a better deal that is as good as the (seeming) average of the forum
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      09-03-2011, 01:26 AM   #41
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Quote:
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I paid $500 over invoice, but $950 isn't too bad. A lot of people are happy just to pay MSRP.
It all depends on the dealerships in your area. And remember, you haven't taken delivery yet. You can still negotiate the price down.

This is a good place to start:
http://amexnetwork.zag.com/main.html
Thoughts?
Where did you buy from?
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