my apologies, yet another thread on DHP, SAP

ricardoyak · 12-24-2011, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfax

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricardoyak

This is a really confusing topic made more so by the variations in terms used by BMW and packages in different territories and even year on year in the UK brochures.

I think it might be best to ignore the packages, but this is risky as in the UK the only way of getting Sport Suspension on an SE is with the Dynamic Package (steering wheel, seats, suspension, performance control and 308 wheels).

I would have thought there have to be two non-adjustable suspension setups - std and sport. Presumably the latter has stiffer suspension (shocks and springs) but apparently not lowered.

Then there is Variable Dampers. These have adjustable stiffness but also, according to the BMW marketing speak, do react to the road surface. In the UK you have to order Performance Control as a prerequisite for Variable Dampers and they are not standard in any model or package.

You get the rocker switch (Performance Drive Control) with either Variable Dampers or Sport Automatic Transmission (uk std on 35d MSport). The brochure says Performance Drive Control adjusts steering, throttle, engine response and suspension.

My questions now relate to that rocker switch does with certain underlying configurations. For example;

I won't have Variable Sport Steering so I would assume that it can't change the steering response.

I will have the Steptronic gearbox (not the Sport one) so assume that it could change the responsiveness here. It could also change throttle response. Which is what the marketing material seems to suggest.

It will change the throttle response only if you have no VSS or VDC. Sport will switch on DTC and moderate DSC. The changes to throttle are different to those you get my simply driving in DS mode (moving shifter to the left)

You will always get the rocker switch with VSS (the cheapest way to get it in the UK) or you'd have no way to control the tightness of the steering.

You can get the dynamic package with 309s too

Sfax I think we agree!

The mystery now moves to how sports suspension differs from the standard and do Variable Dampers completely override the differences.

The UK brochure describes the MSport as having a "specially aligned" sports suspension. This is good vague marketing speak. Could mean anything from slightly modified track to completely different. I suspect there isn't a great deal of difference other than stiffer shocks and springs. I, therefore, believe that Variable Dampers pretty much do away with the need for sport suspension as I would expect the Sport settings to be as stiff as the sport suspension.

Has anyone tried all of the combinations of suspension and Variable Dampers to check this out?

lbjgh · 12-24-2011, 07:48 AM

It sounds to me that BMW may in their wisdom have different dampers and/or damper controls in Europe vs North America. Europeans expect better handling cars no? As noted earlier in this thread, a US owner confirmed there were only two part numbers in the US market. It would be nice if someone accross the pond could check part numbers there to clear this up.

sfax · 12-24-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricardoyak

Sfax I think we agree!

The mystery now moves to how sports suspension differs from the standard and do Variable Dampers completely override the differences.

The UK brochure describes the MSport as having a "specially aligned" sports suspension. This is good vague marketing speak. Could mean anything from slightly modified track to completely different. I suspect there isn't a great deal of difference other than stiffer shocks and springs. I, therefore, believe that Variable Dampers pretty much do away with the need for sport suspension as I would expect the Sport settings to be as stiff as the sport suspension.

Has anyone tried all of the combinations of suspension and Variable Dampers to check this out?

Can't find the thread but someone in Canada kindly posted a comparison of Normal VDC, Sport VDC, standard suspension, Sport suspension and it suggested Normal VDC was softer than standard suspension and from memory that Sport VDC was the same as sport suspension. I would think they do differ slightly though because the component used for damping is different

Want the thrill · 12-24-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juddholland

All of that is entirely true for the 28i, but I will search for the thread that discussed a few owners' surprises at the fact that their non-DHP 35i's showed up at the dealer with the rocker switch. They weren't build errors because all of them checked their build sheets and compared them to their dealers' files to make sure that DHP was not ordered by accident; there's no way that all three of them could have experienced the same fortunate mistake. The reason why we have almost no hands on proof of the presence of a rocker switch without DHP is because there are few people who would order SAP on a 35i and not see some sense in tacking on DHP at least just for the hell of it.

There are a lot more than 3 of us that have 35i's with a rocker switch and no DHP. From what I've read here, I actually think there are more 35i's with SAP and no DHP than the other way around. Guess we could start a poll to find out.

xDrive35i · 12-24-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want the thrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by juddholland

All of that is entirely true for the 28i, but I will search for the thread that discussed a few owners' surprises at the fact that their non-DHP 35i's showed up at the dealer with the rocker switch. They weren't build errors because all of them checked their build sheets and compared them to their dealers' files to make sure that DHP was not ordered by accident; there's no way that all three of them could have experienced the same fortunate mistake. The reason why we have almost no hands on proof of the presence of a rocker switch without DHP is because there are few people who would order SAP on a 35i and not see some sense in tacking on DHP at least just for the hell of it.

There are a lot more than 3 of us that have 35i's with a rocker switch and no DHP. From what I've read here, I actually think there are more 35i's with SAP and no DHP than the other way around. Guess we could start a poll to find out.

My apologies. I seem to remember differently.

dgkli · 12-28-2011, 01:32 PM

I'm probably just adding fuel to this fire: My 2012 35i with SAP and no DHP has the rocker switch.

Yes, the iDrive gives you the option of deciding whether the Sport setting affects chassis and/or drive train, and illustrates the choice by highlighting parts of a diagram showing either the drive train or the steering AND suspension.

HOWEVER, maybe I am insensitive, but I can detect NO DIFFERENCE in the ride or handling of the car when SPORT is selected. What is evident is that the steering effort increases (and the RPMs increase).

I have repeatedly tried the Sport mode over various road surfaces in an attempt to sense the difference in ride that others have experienced, and I just can't feel it. That proves nothing; it might just be me, but it's a data point.

By the way, for those (like me) who are wondering about the difference between the sport mode in the regular transmission (lever moved to the left) and the sports mode activated by the rocker in the sports transmission: As far as I can tell (as long as you don't touch the shift paddles), the two modes feel pretty much the same as each other. HOWEVER, in the lever-to-the-left mode the dashboard display shows you what gear you're in (S1, S2, etc) and once you touch a shift paddle it stays in manual (M1-M8) AFAIK. I believe (but actually have not tested this) that in the rocker-activated mode the transmission only stays in manual temporarily (I have not played with this much and can spend more time doing so if anyone is interested). In this mode the display does not show the current gear but lights up the word "sport" indicator to the right of the Drive transmission mode indicator (whereas in the lever-to-the-left mode it will say e.g. "S4" but not light up the word "sport." I'm not sure what it does when you have both selected!

(Well, in line with another thread, it's really my wife's car so I haven't had all that much time to play with it.)

lbjgh · 12-28-2011, 01:44 PM

I was just going through the configuration tool on the BMW Canada site and interestingly the Variable Damper Control (VDC) which is included in the Dynamic Comfort Package is not available as an option when the M Sport Package is selected.

The Performance Control feature is included in either the Dynamic Comfort Package or the M Sport Package.

I can only assume the variable damper control is not included or available on the M Sport Package.

lhsa · 12-28-2011, 05:35 PM

I think if we polled the forum, almost, if not everyone, with SAP or m-sport 35i's have the rocker switch. Who with a 35i doesn't?

Le Chef · 12-28-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhsa

I think if we polled the forum, almost, if not everyone, with SAP or m-sport 35i's have the rocker switch. Who with a 35i doesn't?

You need to ask the following: (if there's a poll maybe someone can put it into that format)

SAP (no DHP/DDC) no rocker switch
M-Sport (no DHP/DDC) no rocker switch

SAP (no DHP/DDC) with rocker switch
M-Sport (no DHP/DDC) with rocker switch

SAP (DHP/DDC) no rocker switch
M-Sport (DHP/DDC) no rocker switch

SAP (DHP/DDC) with rocker switch
M-Sport (DHP/DDC) with rocker switch

None of the above (specify)

bren · 12-28-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhsa

I think if we polled the forum, almost, if not everyone, with SAP or m-sport 35i's have the rocker switch. Who with a 35i doesn't?

The answer should be all of them since the switch is a function of the "sport automatic transmission", which is why you will not see it in a 28i.

BMW clearly lists the dampers in all marketing and, more importantly, parts manuals, as "gas-pressure" shock absorbers. The only mention of adjustability is in reference to the DHP pkg (US). I'm not sure where all the confusion comes from around here.

They may not do everything right, but these guys are kings of marketing and you can bet there is no way they'd forget to mention adjustable suspension.

torzeck · 12-28-2011, 11:03 PM

Once again:
X3 35i's with SAP get the rocker switch with or without the DHP in the USA.
Without DHP, the dampers (shocks) are not adjustable.
The different modes on these cars (sans DHP) control transmission shift points, throttle response and steering. That's it. I have this on authority from the marketing director of the new X3 at BMW NA (Joe Wierda- you can google him). At this point in the model year, anyone saying different is mistaken.

All of us 2011 owners were equally confused. You can search the forum for all the back and forth.

12-24-2011, 07:48 AM	#24
lbjgh Lieutenant Colonel 104 Rep 1,511 Posts Drives: 2013 AW X3 M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North of Toronto iTrader: (0)	It sounds to me that BMW may in their wisdom have different dampers and/or damper controls in Europe vs North America. Europeans expect better handling cars no? As noted earlier in this thread, a US owner confirmed there were only two part numbers in the US market. It would be nice if someone accross the pond could check part numbers there to clear this up.
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12-28-2011, 01:32 PM	#28
dgkli New Member 0 Rep 13 Posts Drives: '14 X1 xDrive 28i MSport; Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Long Island iTrader: (0)	Sport rocker switch on 35i with SAP I'm probably just adding fuel to this fire: My 2012 35i with SAP and no DHP has the rocker switch. Yes, the iDrive gives you the option of deciding whether the Sport setting affects chassis and/or drive train, and illustrates the choice by highlighting parts of a diagram showing either the drive train or the steering AND suspension. HOWEVER, maybe I am insensitive, but I can detect NO DIFFERENCE in the ride or handling of the car when SPORT is selected. What is evident is that the steering effort increases (and the RPMs increase). I have repeatedly tried the Sport mode over various road surfaces in an attempt to sense the difference in ride that others have experienced, and I just can't feel it. That proves nothing; it might just be me, but it's a data point. By the way, for those (like me) who are wondering about the difference between the sport mode in the regular transmission (lever moved to the left) and the sports mode activated by the rocker in the sports transmission: As far as I can tell (as long as you don't touch the shift paddles), the two modes feel pretty much the same as each other. HOWEVER, in the lever-to-the-left mode the dashboard display shows you what gear you're in (S1, S2, etc) and once you touch a shift paddle it stays in manual (M1-M8) AFAIK. I believe (but actually have not tested this) that in the rocker-activated mode the transmission only stays in manual temporarily (I have not played with this much and can spend more time doing so if anyone is interested). In this mode the display does not show the current gear but lights up the word "sport" indicator to the right of the Drive transmission mode indicator (whereas in the lever-to-the-left mode it will say e.g. "S4" but not light up the word "sport." I'm not sure what it does when you have both selected! (Well, in line with another thread, it's really my wife's car so I haven't had all that much time to play with it.)
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12-28-2011, 01:44 PM	#29
lbjgh Lieutenant Colonel 104 Rep 1,511 Posts Drives: 2013 AW X3 M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North of Toronto iTrader: (0)	I was just going through the configuration tool on the BMW Canada site and interestingly the Variable Damper Control (VDC) which is included in the Dynamic Comfort Package is not available as an option when the M Sport Package is selected. The Performance Control feature is included in either the Dynamic Comfort Package or the M Sport Package. I can only assume the variable damper control is not included or available on the M Sport Package.
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12-28-2011, 05:35 PM	#30
lhsa Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 255 Posts Drives: kia Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NW iTrader: (0)	I think if we polled the forum, almost, if not everyone, with SAP or m-sport 35i's have the rocker switch. Who with a 35i doesn't?
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12-28-2011, 11:03 PM	#33
torzeck Lieutenant 52 Rep 400 Posts Drives: 2011 X3 35i, 2020 X3 30i Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland Oregon iTrader: (0)	Once again: X3 35i's with SAP get the rocker switch with or without the DHP in the USA. Without DHP, the dampers (shocks) are not adjustable. The different modes on these cars (sans DHP) control transmission shift points, throttle response and steering. That's it. I have this on authority from the marketing director of the new X3 at BMW NA (Joe Wierda- you can google him). At this point in the model year, anyone saying different is mistaken. All of us 2011 owners were equally confused. You can search the forum for all the back and forth.
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