Brake nightmare x3 30d

stefertje · 05-29-2022, 02:35 PM

Hi all,

So, the title says enough.. i own a 3.0 diesel N57 X3, living in Amsterdam.
Really happy with the car, own her this summer 2 years.
Some year ago I replaced the front brakes pads and rotors because the dealer who sold me the car just put cheap pads on worn rotors/discs, also some slight shake in het steering wheel could be felt.
Exchanges the fronts for brembo, decent brand, big name, should be good.
I’m an experienced mechanic, worked for 10 years in car technique and now in offshore wind, I know what I’m doing.
When exchanging the front brakes in noticed quite some rust on the calipers, discs and wheel hubs. Discs didn’t came off by themself.
After bedding in the brake I was noticing more judder/shudder in her car while braking, and steering wheel shake was more noticeable.
Replaced front discs for Textar ones since I had problems with brembo before. Left the pads since they were stil new.
Guess what: after bedding in, shudder/judder noticeable in the car, not 100% clear from the front so replaced rear discs and pads for textar ones.
After bedding in the rears: still noticable with braking. Not sure where is comes from.
Checked the front discs with dial gauge: 0.05 runout left front. This is the max that is allowed. Replaced bearing and wheel hub left front, replaced both discs front, again.
Problem solved you would think: NO. Checked runout on the rears: some runout of 0.04 mm, nog big deal. Just to be 100% sure I have replaced both wheel hub and bearings on the rear, replaced brake discs and pads (again) guess what: still there..
Just ordered a new wheel bearing an hub for right ring, again, to be sure.
Also ordered new discs and pads for front, just to be sure.
This is my second bmw with braken shudder that I cannot find.
I’ve checked gearbox/driveline: while braking putting the gear in neutral: no difference.
Now I have read somewhere on a bmw forum that somebody had problems with brembo front pads and brake shudder. Does anybody had this before?
Anybody has other ideas where to look?

To be honest, I always liked the bmw’s. Their are not other cars as beautiful and good as these ones. Been born and raised with bmw in the family, had bmw bikes when I was little, real crazy but I’m getting a bit fed up with it now.

Anyone has good ideas?

P.s. also still struggling with a coolant issue currently..

Sandy5454 · 05-30-2022, 10:32 AM

After your repeated replacement of rotors and pads maybe check suspension alignment, control arms. General or uneven wear in suspension can cause brake shudder.

stefertje · 05-30-2022, 11:40 AM

Checked it all multiple times, no play, no problems, everything looks and feels new.. since I live near Germany I do regularly high speed runs 200 km/h+ without any problems…
Thrust arms are checked and without any issues..

bmwPower99 · 05-31-2022, 05:58 AM

Tyres or there is some play in the steering column

stefertje · 05-31-2022, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwPower99

Tyres or there is some play in the steering column

Tyres are ok, have the same with 2 other sets.
Steering collum is allready updated with latest, new, thrust piece

bmwPower99 · 05-31-2022, 04:32 PM

You've covered so much and have experience, so God knows what's going on. The only thing I can think of is you have defective calipers or you're not bedding in the pads/discs properly. Are you feeling the abs kick in at all?

stefertje · 06-01-2022, 03:16 PM

I definitely feel the ABS kicking in when stepping hard on the pedal, like you would expect, also car is stopping like you are throwing an anchor out…
Tried re-bedding the brakes: shaking was more violent and now steering wheel shakes a little. New brakes and pads are on their way. Still have some suspicion regarding the brembo pads and some other BMW owner (2-series) who had similar issues (vibration/judder/shudder while braking)
I have driven 117.000 km now car drives like new, does anybody here have experience how long the suspension parts will last? I want to overhaul the complete front and rear suspension when this is getting older but still need to find out at what kilometers.
Still I’m not confined by the so called BMW quality I’m used to. Seeing this poor quality, not only with brakes also sunroof noise. Using coolant, leaking egr, overall building quality is really poor in my opinion at least I still think the E91 I had was the last real BMW made. Looking at prices for diesel nowadays in the Netherlands it’s not even fun to drive anymore (2.10 euro per liter, read: 8,30 dollar per gallon.) ouch.. 😏

stefertje · 11-10-2022, 02:13 PM

Little update from my side.
Changed 4 hubs for new and dus front brakes again. Finally problem solved. Now 5.000 km later, back again and quite severe. Did change the thrust arm bearings front also, didn’t do anything.

I’m really confused about what’s going on here.

After bedding in the brakes hard it’s gone for a day, did bedding in twice now but it still comes back.

What popped in my mind is the following: I’m a real car detail guy who washes his car and wheel wells more than once a week. I clean the car with high pressure and park it back on the spot.
Could it be the case that rust i developing between the rotors and hubs?
I’m not used to put any grease between rotors and wheel hubs, do you guys use copper grease for instance?
Could this be the case maybe?

Thanks

Wgosma · 11-10-2022, 04:52 PM

Perhaps your brake bedding is the cause. What bedding procedure do you use?

As I recall BMW simply advises driving/braking the car gently for about 200 or so miles after installing new pads/rotors.

I've driven Bimmers for 16 years- I DIY my own brakes, typically used Balo or Zimmerman rotors and Genuine BMW, Jurid or Pagid pads….break-in per BMW's recommendation- have never experienced brake shudder or related issues. Owned 5 Series sedans and X3 past 4 years.

Good luck/Bill

pungo · 11-10-2022, 11:20 PM

User comes to a high speed panic stop on the highway
As user is completely stopped, they keep their foot smashed on the brake pedal, clamping the overheated pad on the overheated rotor leaving excessive brake pad material on one spot of the rotor.
Now while braking, every time that area of the rotor with excessive brake pad material scorched onto one spot of the rotor comes around, the brake pad grabs it, therefore causing the juddering feel.

I'm not saying that's your issue, but I've seen it many times. To prove it, simply sanding or resurfacing the rotors to remove the excess brake pad deposits eliminated the judder.

stefertje · 11-11-2022, 02:31 AM

Hi Bill, thanks for your reply.

Bedding in is done properly like bmw advice.
After that I did the hard bedding in to potential remove deposits on the discs, did not work.

Was braking and driving like an grandpa to save the brakes when first bedding in.

stefertje · 11-11-2022, 02:37 AM

To reply on pungo: I know this could be this the case. After hard braking keeping your foot on the brake. I tend to even put the gear in P to avoid keeping your foot on the brake.
Normally when my wife drives the car she feels nothing but this time she mentioned that brakes feel wobbly and that she don’t like to car drive the car that way.

Maybe selling is the only option, spend serious money on this issue now and apparently it cannot be fixed.

Do you guys put some sort of grease or copper grease between discs and wheel hubs? I know from truck maintenance this is a definite no go and when in school for car mechanic this was a no go either.
Could maybe think of rust between the disc and hubs

Wgosma · 11-11-2022, 09:44 AM

Before mating rotors to hubs I apply a very thin coating of anti-sieze compound to the hubs after cleaning any crap off the hubs. I'm doubtful rust on hubs is your issue. I wonder if perhaps you have a sticky caliper(s) that is causing a pad to drag on a rotor? This is an odd situation, I'm lost when it comes to other possible causes. Are the caliper guide pins in good condition and surface clean? (They should be free of any lubricant)

pungo · 11-11-2022, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefertje

Hi Bill, thanks for your reply.

Bedding in is done properly like bmw advice.
After that I did the hard bedding in to potential remove deposits on the discs, did not work.

Actually, the hard bedding in is meant to "deposit" brake pad material onto the disc surface to improve braking performance, not "remove deposits"

"Bedding in your brakes helps transfer an even layer of brake pad material onto the brake rotor which assists in smoother brake operation and improved braking power. Having a uniform layer of pad material on the brake rotor is essential to minimizing brake squeal and vibration."

stefertje · 11-11-2022, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pungo

Actually, the hard bedding in is meant to "deposit" brake pad material onto the disc surface to improve braking performance, not "remove deposits"

"Bedding in your brakes helps transfer an even layer of brake pad material onto the brake rotor which assists in smoother brake operation and improved braking power. Having a uniform layer of pad material on the brake rotor is essential to minimizing brake squeal and vibration."

Correct, but if your discs have allready to much deposit on 1 particular spot, you kinda burn this off when re-bedding.

Dekero · 11-12-2022, 10:00 PM

Sounds like worn thrust arms to me... Nothing to do with the brakes ..

stefertje · 01-17-2023, 02:56 PM

Thrust arms allready exchanged, are brand new.
Small update: I spoke to a friend who had exactly the same problem with has BMW. He told me he tried everything and ended up with 1 thing: Original BMW rotors en pads: Problem solved.

Tried at my car: Solved! finally!

I've found out that BMW brakes are the same brands as some OE but BMW secures that the manufacturer hardens the rotors. This is not standad done as i've been told.

After 2 years and many sets of rotors, hubs and thrust arms i'm finally done... time to sell the car... ..... just kidding :-)

bmwPower99 · 01-17-2023, 07:04 PM

Textar are an OEM supplier for BMW so the rotors would not be the issue IMO. However, I just watched a video about brembo pads. Apparently they have no pad manufacturing of their own and you can see markings of other suppliers when buying their pads and their is no consistency in the brand you might get. Perhaps they cheaped out on your pads

stefertje · 01-17-2023, 10:47 PM

Indeed textar is the brand. I’ve used 2 sets of brembo and 3 sets of textar.
I’ve kept all the old rotor as old steel.
If you say that it’s not the issue that I used OEM, how can it be possible that the OEM textar (with bmw logo, bought from bmw) are quite different from all the rest of the aftermarket textar ones?
Easy to say from your side that this niet solves the issue, it did actually… and men… I tried everything!!!

05-29-2022, 02:35 PM	#1
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	Brake nightmare x3 30d Hi all, So, the title says enough.. i own a 3.0 diesel N57 X3, living in Amsterdam. Really happy with the car, own her this summer 2 years. Some year ago I replaced the front brakes pads and rotors because the dealer who sold me the car just put cheap pads on worn rotors/discs, also some slight shake in het steering wheel could be felt. Exchanges the fronts for brembo, decent brand, big name, should be good. I’m an experienced mechanic, worked for 10 years in car technique and now in offshore wind, I know what I’m doing. When exchanging the front brakes in noticed quite some rust on the calipers, discs and wheel hubs. Discs didn’t came off by themself. After bedding in the brake I was noticing more judder/shudder in her car while braking, and steering wheel shake was more noticeable. Replaced front discs for Textar ones since I had problems with brembo before. Left the pads since they were stil new. Guess what: after bedding in, shudder/judder noticeable in the car, not 100% clear from the front so replaced rear discs and pads for textar ones. After bedding in the rears: still noticable with braking. Not sure where is comes from. Checked the front discs with dial gauge: 0.05 runout left front. This is the max that is allowed. Replaced bearing and wheel hub left front, replaced both discs front, again. Problem solved you would think: NO. Checked runout on the rears: some runout of 0.04 mm, nog big deal. Just to be 100% sure I have replaced both wheel hub and bearings on the rear, replaced brake discs and pads (again) guess what: still there.. Just ordered a new wheel bearing an hub for right ring, again, to be sure. Also ordered new discs and pads for front, just to be sure. This is my second bmw with braken shudder that I cannot find. I’ve checked gearbox/driveline: while braking putting the gear in neutral: no difference. Now I have read somewhere on a bmw forum that somebody had problems with brembo front pads and brake shudder. Does anybody had this before? Anybody has other ideas where to look? To be honest, I always liked the bmw’s. Their are not other cars as beautiful and good as these ones. Been born and raised with bmw in the family, had bmw bikes when I was little, real crazy but I’m getting a bit fed up with it now. Anyone has good ideas? P.s. also still struggling with a coolant issue currently..
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05-30-2022, 10:32 AM	#2
Sandy5454 Sandy 6 Rep 29 Posts Drives: BMW X3 30D Join Date: May 2020 Location: UK iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 BMW X3 [0.00]	Brakes problem. After your repeated replacement of rotors and pads maybe check suspension alignment, control arms. General or uneven wear in suspension can cause brake shudder.
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05-30-2022, 11:40 AM	#3
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	Checked it all multiple times, no play, no problems, everything looks and feels new.. since I live near Germany I do regularly high speed runs 200 km/h+ without any problems… Thrust arms are checked and without any issues..
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05-31-2022, 05:58 AM	#4
bmwPower99 Private First Class 19 Rep 148 Posts Drives: bmw f25 X3 35d Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: uk iTrader: (0)	Tyres or there is some play in the steering column
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05-31-2022, 04:32 PM	#6
bmwPower99 Private First Class 19 Rep 148 Posts Drives: bmw f25 X3 35d Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: uk iTrader: (0)	You've covered so much and have experience, so God knows what's going on. The only thing I can think of is you have defective calipers or you're not bedding in the pads/discs properly. Are you feeling the abs kick in at all? Last edited by bmwPower99; 05-31-2022 at 04:46 PM..
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06-01-2022, 03:16 PM	#7
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	I definitely feel the ABS kicking in when stepping hard on the pedal, like you would expect, also car is stopping like you are throwing an anchor out… Tried re-bedding the brakes: shaking was more violent and now steering wheel shakes a little. New brakes and pads are on their way. Still have some suspicion regarding the brembo pads and some other BMW owner (2-series) who had similar issues (vibration/judder/shudder while braking) I have driven 117.000 km now car drives like new, does anybody here have experience how long the suspension parts will last? I want to overhaul the complete front and rear suspension when this is getting older but still need to find out at what kilometers. Still I’m not confined by the so called BMW quality I’m used to. Seeing this poor quality, not only with brakes also sunroof noise. Using coolant, leaking egr, overall building quality is really poor in my opinion at least I still think the E91 I had was the last real BMW made. Looking at prices for diesel nowadays in the Netherlands it’s not even fun to drive anymore (2.10 euro per liter, read: 8,30 dollar per gallon.) ouch.. 😏 Last edited by stefertje; 06-01-2022 at 03:21 PM..
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11-10-2022, 02:13 PM	#8
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	Little update from my side. Changed 4 hubs for new and dus front brakes again. Finally problem solved. Now 5.000 km later, back again and quite severe. Did change the thrust arm bearings front also, didn’t do anything. I’m really confused about what’s going on here. After bedding in the brakes hard it’s gone for a day, did bedding in twice now but it still comes back. What popped in my mind is the following: I’m a real car detail guy who washes his car and wheel wells more than once a week. I clean the car with high pressure and park it back on the spot. Could it be the case that rust i developing between the rotors and hubs? I’m not used to put any grease between rotors and wheel hubs, do you guys use copper grease for instance? Could this be the case maybe? Thanks
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11-10-2022, 04:52 PM	#9
Wgosma Lieutenant Colonel 806 Rep 1,906 Posts Drives: 2012 F25 X3 28i (N52) Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Northern Nevada iTrader: (0)	Perhaps your brake bedding is the cause. What bedding procedure do you use? As I recall BMW simply advises driving/braking the car gently for about 200 or so miles after installing new pads/rotors. I've driven Bimmers for 16 years- I DIY my own brakes, typically used Balo or Zimmerman rotors and Genuine BMW, Jurid or Pagid pads….break-in per BMW's recommendation- have never experienced brake shudder or related issues. Owned 5 Series sedans and X3 past 4 years. Good luck/Bill
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11-10-2022, 11:20 PM	#10
pungo Colonel 880 Rep 2,547 Posts Drives: Z4MC-X3-35i-525i, Corrado G60 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: MD iTrader: (5) Garage List 2011 BMW X3 x35i [0.00] 2001 BMW 525i [0.00] 2007 BMW Z4 M Coupe [8.76]	User comes to a high speed panic stop on the highway As user is completely stopped, they keep their foot smashed on the brake pedal, clamping the overheated pad on the overheated rotor leaving excessive brake pad material on one spot of the rotor. Now while braking, every time that area of the rotor with excessive brake pad material scorched onto one spot of the rotor comes around, the brake pad grabs it, therefore causing the juddering feel. I'm not saying that's your issue, but I've seen it many times. To prove it, simply sanding or resurfacing the rotors to remove the excess brake pad deposits eliminated the judder.
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11-11-2022, 02:31 AM	#11
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	Hi Bill, thanks for your reply. Bedding in is done properly like bmw advice. After that I did the hard bedding in to potential remove deposits on the discs, did not work. Was braking and driving like an grandpa to save the brakes when first bedding in.
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11-11-2022, 02:37 AM	#12
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	To reply on pungo: I know this could be this the case. After hard braking keeping your foot on the brake. I tend to even put the gear in P to avoid keeping your foot on the brake. Normally when my wife drives the car she feels nothing but this time she mentioned that brakes feel wobbly and that she don’t like to car drive the car that way. Maybe selling is the only option, spend serious money on this issue now and apparently it cannot be fixed. Do you guys put some sort of grease or copper grease between discs and wheel hubs? I know from truck maintenance this is a definite no go and when in school for car mechanic this was a no go either. Could maybe think of rust between the disc and hubs
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11-11-2022, 09:44 AM	#13
Wgosma Lieutenant Colonel 806 Rep 1,906 Posts Drives: 2012 F25 X3 28i (N52) Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Northern Nevada iTrader: (0)	Before mating rotors to hubs I apply a very thin coating of anti-sieze compound to the hubs after cleaning any crap off the hubs. I'm doubtful rust on hubs is your issue. I wonder if perhaps you have a sticky caliper(s) that is causing a pad to drag on a rotor? This is an odd situation, I'm lost when it comes to other possible causes. Are the caliper guide pins in good condition and surface clean? (They should be free of any lubricant)
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11-12-2022, 10:00 PM	#16
Dekero Private First Class 36 Rep 114 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW X5 35I Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Memphis TN iTrader: (0)	Sounds like worn thrust arms to me... Nothing to do with the brakes ..
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01-17-2023, 02:56 PM	#17
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	Thrust arms allready exchanged, are brand new. Small update: I spoke to a friend who had exactly the same problem with has BMW. He told me he tried everything and ended up with 1 thing: Original BMW rotors en pads: Problem solved. Tried at my car: Solved! finally! I've found out that BMW brakes are the same brands as some OE but BMW secures that the manufacturer hardens the rotors. This is not standad done as i've been told. After 2 years and many sets of rotors, hubs and thrust arms i'm finally done... time to sell the car... ..... just kidding :-)
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01-17-2023, 07:04 PM	#18
bmwPower99 Private First Class 19 Rep 148 Posts Drives: bmw f25 X3 35d Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: uk iTrader: (0)	Textar are an OEM supplier for BMW so the rotors would not be the issue IMO. However, I just watched a video about brembo pads. Apparently they have no pad manufacturing of their own and you can see markings of other suppliers when buying their pads and their is no consistency in the brand you might get. Perhaps they cheaped out on your pads
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01-17-2023, 10:47 PM	#19
stefertje Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: BMW X3 Xdrive30D, Mini Cooper Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Amsterdam, NL iTrader: (0)	Indeed textar is the brand. I’ve used 2 sets of brembo and 3 sets of textar. I’ve kept all the old rotor as old steel. If you say that it’s not the issue that I used OEM, how can it be possible that the OEM textar (with bmw logo, bought from bmw) are quite different from all the rest of the aftermarket textar ones? Easy to say from your side that this niet solves the issue, it did actually… and men… I tried everything!!!
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