[PhotoMax]

I had an interesting conversation with a good friend who owns an older X5. Almost every new car these days comes with a fancy LCD screen packed with technology, options and apps, etc. When I was contemplating a newish X3 I insisted on having a backup camera system. There were a lot of really nice available BMWs without a backup camera, but for my wife and I this became a "once you get used it you have to have it" thing.

Which gets me to wondering. Most of my new 2015 xLine X3 x35i is probably going to age gracefully. But what about the tech package and screen options? Will this stuff become like yesterday's smart phone: all the kids want the latest thing? Will the tech options and eye candy of three years from now make a cutting edge 2016 model seem old, even though the rest of the car seems very viable?

[Crassus]

Technology that's useful today will remain useful in 3 years. Why? Because most nice-to-haves only become standard 3-5 years after introduction.

Go shopping for a used 1-Series and 3-Series and you will be gobsmacked how some are exceptionally luxurious while others are no more exciting than a base VW Golf. It's only recently that Satnav and bluetooth is standard on BMWs and Porsches eventhough the technology is more than a decade old.

[Tjalle]

Tech Goodies are bad enough, but what will really "kill" our vehicles are issues with all digital wizardry which is controlling- almost - everything in our cars. E.g: engine, gearbox, sidewindows, doors etc.

My MY-97 9000 Turbo has an advanced engine control system - I always carry a spare Direct Ignition cassette- but everything else is good old 12V (negative earth )

[Crassus]

Originally Posted by Tjalle

Tech Goodies are bad enough, but what will really "kill" our vehicles are issues with all digital wizardry which is controlling- almost - everything in our cars. E.g: engine, gearbox, sidewindows, doors etc.

My MY-97 9000 Turbo has an advanced engine control system - I always carry a spare Direct Ignition cassette- but everything else is good old 12V (negative earth )

I think some recently released luxury cars will in 15-20 years time have the carbon foot print of a coal powered train. They will be written off because insurance companies will rather scrap the cars than pay thousands of euros or dollars for batteries, electric motors and electronics that can only be bought from manufacturers.

This is a big contrast to cars manufactured in the 1980s that did not have an environmental agenda but were sustainable because anyone with some mechanical knowledge can repair one for cheap and keep it going for 30 years.

[Tjalle]

Make it 10-15 years for high tech cars- and 5-10 years for 1:st gen electric cars, due to batteries/performance.

[poiuytre111]

I recall a while after the Golf GTI first came out, comments that the complexity of EFI would only be viable if the component level reliability had moved to a much higher level than before - it had.

I was concerned when BMW moved to the more complex alternator arrangements associated with stop-start and I would be concerned if my car had an electric water pump but only because these were/are "new" and will inevitably suffer some infant mortality issues until BMW (or rather their parts suppliers) get their act together.

So what can we do about this ? not a lot really - avoid significant tech changes until they have had time to settle down. Would I buy a car with a carb - probably not, but I might be tempted by one with a late-design Bosch injection pump (M47 pre TU)

[Tjalle]

I agree that after some years new technology will have settled and quality/reliability is OK.

Still-here - insurance companies will not insure engines, gearboxes, electronics on cars older than 8 years. I.e a "premium" car will after 8 years be a rolling timebomb, which could blow up any minute with a repair that costs more than the value of the car.

People will still buy 8 year old premium cars, but at a cheap price.

My 19 years old 9000 has hit rock bottom, and is now increasing - slightly -in value year by year.

[Crassus]

Originally Posted by poiuytre111

So what can we do about this ? not a lot really - avoid significant tech changes until they have had time to settle down. Would I buy a car with a carb - probably not, but I might be tempted by one with a late-design Bosch injection pump (M47 pre TU)

Government will have to intervene and legislate economically feasible repairs or replacement components. We cannot live in a world where cars become disposable as iPhone and unrepairable by anyone else but the manufacturer.

Mercedes recently unveiled an amazingly cutting edge 48 volt in-line 6 this replaces the starter motor and alternator with an integrated electric motor that develops 220Nm. It's amazing engineering but the complexity of the engine and electrically powered accessories, will make it very cost-prohibitive to own once 10-20 years old.

[Tjalle]

This is a very interesting design and a forerunner of things to come - but is only marginally more complex than our FAS in X3/X4. FAS=flywheel alternator/starter (12v), which enables start/stopp. Or the ZF design with integrated electric motor in AUTO-gearbox, which is being marketed by eg. BMW.

I.e. to cut costs, things will be more and more integrated and hence - as mentioned - more expensive to repair.

We can't expect Government to act - especially not with Trump and Brexit - but hope for market driven used parts/systems.

First to explode in the face of consumers, are - probably - Gen 1 electric cars with batteries being obsolete within 10 years or so.

[atomic]

Originally Posted by PhotoMax

I had an interesting conversation with a good friend who owns an older X5. Almost every new car these days comes with a fancy LCD screen packed with technology, options and apps, etc. When I was contemplating a newish X3 I insisted on having a backup camera system. There were a lot of really nice available BMWs without a backup camera, but for my wife and I this became a "once you get used it you have to have it" thing.

Which gets me to wondering. Most of my new 2015 xLine X3 x35i is probably going to age gracefully. But what about the tech package and screen options? Will this stuff become like yesterday's smart phone: all the kids want the latest thing? Will the tech options and eye candy of three years from now make a cutting edge 2016 model seem old, even though the rest of the car seems very viable?

That tech package stuff isn't what makes a car. In 2006 I bought a new air cooled Ducati with a dry clutch that would do 0 to 60 in less than 3 seconds. It had zero tech features. It is now worth more than the price of I paid new.

Not everyone cares about tech. I didn't have any tech on my 2014 BMW that I had before my X3.

[PhotoMax]

Originally Posted by atomic

Not everyone cares about tech. I didn't have any tech on my 2014 BMW that I had before my X3.

I understand your point. But the tech is here now. Backup cameras, fancy screans, front camera, surround overhead viewing system, parking assist, etc, etc. This is the new order and expectation.

Take the iconic Leica M series camera. Models evolved but the camera pretty much did the same thing for decades. All remained popular. Then BOOM: the new order is state of the art digital features. The shelf life appeal gets shortened. People want the latest tech and features. The cameras sort of look the same. The lenses pretty much stay constant from old model to new model. What changes is the sensor, features, dynamic range and assorted new stuff. It matters.

When I was paying for my X3 at the BMW dealer we chatted about how this tech feature list and customer expectations affects sales of two-year-old models that lack some of this stuff. The finance guy alluded to this arena: resale value and dealership concern, etc.

What do I know? This is my first BMW and late model fancy car. We also bought my wife a new 2016 Mazda 3 which came loaded with all the fancy tech. She admits all this stuff never really mattered to her that much, but now that she is used to it she said she could never drive a newish car without all this stuff...

[gIzzE]

Leica M is a great example.

M4, M5, M6, M7 all pretty much the same, slight enhancements but compare a low light image from an M4 using a 35mm f/.95 lens with an image from an M7 using the same lens and there is not much in it.

Stick that same lens on an M8 digital and then compare it with the lend on an M8.2 or an M9 or the latest M (type 240) and the difference is far from subtle.

A camera body that was £4500 suddenly becomes £1000, and you know full well a £350 Sony NEX and a £50 M lens adapter will give better images, if not as nice to use.


My 2013 X3 with the CIC felt a bit dated when the NBT arrived, and if you look at the latest iDrive it is now looking pretty archaic.
I do think you have to be careful when buying a car, especially when used, if you have bought one with a system that is already 4-5 years old you may be left with something that feels clunky pretty quickly.
But I think this is what the manufacturers want, it is pretty much the only way to make your car feel dated and get you wanting a new one.

If you go back 20 odd years a 5 year old car started to feel old, at 10 years old most were felling well passed their best. These days, go and buy a 2007 335i or 535d and it will fell mechanically sound still, a 10 year old car that has been looked after will feel very modern still, it is the tech that makes it feel dated.
In fact I would argue that many cars are starting to go backwards for driver enjoyment, with electric steering etc. and loads more diesel engines they are all getting a bit numb, it is the tech that makes them feel modern.


I have actually got rid of my F25 and gone back to an E83, it feels so much nicer in the steering, and being in the UK I can have a straight six petrol, which just isn't available over here on the F25.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed my F25, but I am not a fan of the electric steering on new cars, and as much as I try and pretend I like diesels I simply don't.
But the av/nav system in the E83 is crap!! But it is fine, I have bluetooth for phone and audio streaming so it isn't the end of the world. But I had the same system in my E46 back in 2002!! 14 years old now.

[SimplySpoons]

In my experience with shopping for a new car over the last couple of months, I've found that even tech from ~2013 feels dated at this point. For example, I test drove a 2017 Volvo V60, and while the car was comfortable and enjoyable to drive, the infotainment system was pretty dated, and it made the car as a whole feel dated in comparison to the 2017 X3 that I decided on. Just a few years ago, I feel as though we would be happy to just have a nav in a car, regardless of the software/functionality. Now, if a car even has a last-gen nav system, it makes the car feel more obsolete, even if the rest of the car is awesome.

The manufacturers know this, which is why they're trying to constantly innovate with new features in order to stay up-to-date and ahead of the curve, however, as a result, this makes it difficult for the consumer to keep up on what's considered "state-of-the-art" and what's considered "old news." As a teenager, if I drove the current V60, I would be amazed with the level of technology. However now, after working in the industry directly with the manufacturers, even an efficient system such as Volvo's seems to pale in comparison to the current-gen iDrive system.

It seems that it's getting to the point at which it's going to be difficult to "innovate" these systems any further, and manufacturers are going to have more and more trouble setting themselves apart from one another

[PhotoMax]

Good points SimplySpoons (cool name by the way...)

For decades the used car shopping criteria was: any accidents, model year, mileage, condition, paint, noises, engine compression, upholstery, oil leaks, etc.

Now, in the new era we have "how dated is the dash tech?" to worry about. I think it does introduce a new variable. For some it will matter a lot and for others less so. I guess we will have to wait a couple of years to see how a great an impact this will be.

Many people are just happy to have a tank full of sharks while others need the sharks to have "frikin' laser beams attached to their heads..."

[SimplySpoons]

Originally Posted by PhotoMax

Good points SimplySpoons (cool name by the way...)

For decades the used car shopping criteria was: any accidents, model year, mileage, condition, paint, noises, engine compression, upholstery, oil leaks, etc.

Now, in the new era we have "how dated is the dash tech?" to worry about. I think it does introduce a new variable. For some it will matter a lot and for others less so. I guess we will have to wait a couple of years to see how a great an impact this will be.

Many people are just happy to have a tank full of sharks while others need the sharks to have "frikin' laser beams attached to their heads..."

Thank you!

You also make good points. The industry itself and the thought process of buying a car (new or used) has changed completed over the last decade or so. So many more variables to consider now

Also, sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads -- is that too much to ask for? I think not!

[ba ba boosh]

I used to have a 2006 BMW 330i E90, probably the second generation of the iDrive system. It was horrendous, very slow, often froze and had to be replaced completely twice (under warranty, thank god). Now I have a 2012 F25 and the iDrive has been improved considerably especially with the quick screen buttons, but just as new computers eventually age and newer computers come out technology will always be improving. I had a 328i loaner with the newest iDrive system with the text input. It's incredibly faster than my F25 setup. Will I fret over it? Hell no, technology consistently changes, I plan on keeping my car for 4 more years. It's already paid off and baring some unforeseeable events my car has been bulletproof thus far (knock on wood).

[kevink1]

The only thing I missed on my 04 before I bought my 2015 X3 was bluetooth (either phone or music). I think that as long as it supports my phones, it should hopefully suffice for several years.

Of course, it doesn't support CarPlay. I worry about the longevity of the fancier interfaces. Apple has been able to do well for 9 years. But in another 10 years? Who knows.

[ba ba boosh]

Originally Posted by kevink1

The only thing I missed on my 04 before I bought my 2015 X3 was bluetooth (either phone or music). I think that as long as it supports my phones, it should hopefully suffice for several years.

Of course, it doesn't support CarPlay. I worry about the longevity of the fancier interfaces. Apple has been able to do well for 9 years. But in another 10 years? Who knows.

There are F430 Ferraris' that have the iPhone 4 jack integrated into the radio. Talk about old school.