BMW X3 Forum
BMW X3 Forum
Welcome to the ultimate BMW X3 community.
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-18-2011, 01:20 PM   #23
Rinse
New Member
1
Rep
24
Posts

Drives: X3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Take this for what it's worth, but I've been conversing with a BMW dealer here in the Greater Toronto Area. He told me that all 2012 X3 28i models will be receiving the N20 engine.

Looks like first production run is October.

Hope this helps for people that are on the fence.

EDIT:

Here's his response:

Quote:
All 28i for 2012 will be the N20 out of the factory. If you don't make October then it will be November. You'll need approximately a 2 month lead time to be safe. If you want the inline six, last month production is September which we are plugging in right now actually.
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2011, 02:36 PM   #24
clarence
Lieutenant Colonel
53
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoyako View Post
If BMW change 28i to 4 cylinder, will it rival there X1? X3 is heavier than X1 hence it will require more fuel to move it right?
X1 28i is the top of the range X1 whereas the X3 28i is middle of the range for Europe, so no overlap.
The X1 is much smaller than X3.
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2011, 09:22 PM   #25
Pinoyako
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 2011 X3 28i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Some car fanatics/BMW fanatics dont like a 4 cylinder for it is "not a luxury" vehicle.....thoughts please.
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2011, 09:33 PM   #26
Le Chef
Banned
United_States
16
Rep
412
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 35i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

They're right and wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoyako View Post
Some car fanatics/BMW fanatics dont like a 4 cylinder for it is "not a luxury" vehicle.....thoughts please.
One of the best and most famous BMW's ever was the E30 M3. And it came with a potent 4-cylinder engine that gave the car great power but also great balance. The real BMW fanatics worshiped at its alter.

Frankly what makes a good luxury car engine in today's economy is a combination of refinement (nvh) and torque. And both are far easier to achieve with good fuel economy in a 4-cylinder turbocharged engine than a NA 6-cylinder engine.

Snobbery can be so ignorant at times...
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2011, 10:33 PM   #27
skier219
Captain
United_States
607
Rep
969
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i, M2C, Ferrari 328
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I don't agree. Inline six engines are perfectly balanced and quite smooth. Fours are not, and balancing them (via balance shafts) introduces a lot of tradeoffs (starting with friction and impacting efficiency and power). I have owned about 5-6 turbo four cylinder engines over the years, and none of them can come close to the smoothness of BMW's legendary inline six. Some of those turbo fours have been quite impressive in terms of power, but none impressed me in terms of refinement. Several even failed to impress in terms of gas mileage (as an example, the turbo four in my Acura RDX is a gas hog and I see no real benefit to it compared to some of the V6 engines in Acura's other products).

I do believe BMW has nailed the efficiency aspect with the N20, but it would take a miracle for it to compete with the inline six for smoothness and refinement. That would be asking a lot from a blown four cylinder -- to the point of defying physics. It's hard to do better than a perfectly balanced engine like an inline six or a V-12.

For me, it comes down to price in the case of BMW, which is a premium auto in my income bracket. I had no problem spending $55K on my Z4 with the inline six. I'd never pay that much for a turbo four, not even close. I wouldn't pay $45K for an X3 with a turbo four either.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 12:18 AM   #28
clarence
Lieutenant Colonel
53
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoyako View Post
Some car fanatics/BMW fanatics dont like a 4 cylinder for it is "not a luxury" vehicle.....thoughts please.
I really don't care, as long as it revs smoothly to it's redline & sounds decently ok then I'm sold. As I've said many times before, Audi, MB & BMW sell a lot more cars worldwide with 4cyl engines than 6, 8 or 12.
In my home market, the best selling MB E-class is the E250, & that has a 1.8 turbo with performance that beats the E300.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 08:58 AM   #29
Pinoyako
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 2011 X3 28i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Therefore, the I6 on the 2nd generation X3 28i will be a "RARE" breed!!! For the next 5 years X3 will have this I4 and us "lucky" ones can brag of this bullet proof engine the I6 rather than a high maintainance I4. The 2011 X3 28i will be a "collectors item"!!! Just looking at the glass half full!!!
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 09:12 AM   #30
epiphone3
Lieutenant Colonel
110
Rep
1,772
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW X3 35i
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoyako View Post
Therefore, the I6 on the 2nd generation X3 28i will be a "RARE" breed!!! For the next 5 years X3 will have this I4 and us "lucky" ones can brag of this bullet proof engine the I6 rather than a high maintainance I4. The 2011 X3 28i will be a "collectors item"!!! Just looking at the glass half full!!!
curious how you feel the torque is on the X3 28i with the inline 6? I am currently looking at either an X1 28i (N20) or X3 28i (I6) and am back and fourth. I will be test driving both but am curious what a longer term owner thinks.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 09:14 AM   #31
pokerface
Colonel
pokerface's Avatar
Canada
428
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: F25 X3 N20 / F80 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

^ i drove both over the weekend. There's some decontenting in the X1, but they both drive great (X1 moreso due to more torque and lower weight)
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 09:24 AM   #32
kosmoHR
New Member
0
Rep
20
Posts

Drives: 128 "nothingburger" coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hood River, Oregon

iTrader: (0)

In my experience, the whole "better efficiency" claim for four cylinder turbos goes right out the window when driven in anything approaching an enthusiastic manner.

Better on the EPA test machines? You bet.

Better in real life for actual B-Car owners? Nope. Likely only on long, steady state, highway trips.

I'm leaning gently towards ordering an 11 the moment that it is announced that 12's will be equipped with the T4. But a lot of times when something is cancelled like the I6, people initially think it will become rare and coveted, and it turns out 5 years down the line that nobody wants anything to do with it.

I doubt, however, that will ever be the case with the venerable I6 engine!
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 09:42 AM   #33
jsublime
Lieutenant
United_States
62
Rep
580
Posts

Drives: G20 M340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orlando

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2015 BMW X3 28i  [0.00]
2011 BMW 135i  [0.00]
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoHR View Post
I'm leaning gently towards ordering an 11 the moment that it is announced that 12's will be equipped with the T4. But a lot of times when something is cancelled like the I6, people initially think it will become rare and coveted, and it turns out 5 years down the line that nobody wants anything to do with it.

I doubt, however, that will ever be the case with the venerable I6 engine!
Don't be so sure, reviews of the N20 have been pretty positive...

In comparing (on paper) the turbo N20 to the naturally aspirated 6-cylinder engine it replaces, the advantages are many:


Quote:
Zero-to-60 mph acceleration actually drops by 0.7 seconds, BMW says, to just 6.1 seconds. Average fuel consumption, as measured on the European cycle, improves by 5 miles per gallon to 30 mpg average. CO2 emissions drop by 35 grams per kilometer."

That's not bad for a smaller, less-powerful engine, at least from a pure horsepower perspective. BMW's new turbo 2.0 puts out 241 horsepower and 258 pound-feet of torque. The virtue of the trade-off in horsepower and torque comes in the delivery. Both engines have nearly identical horsepower curves, but the four-cylinder peaks 2000 RPM earlier and holds it to redline, whereas the six didn't peak until the 7000 RPM redline. In fact, until 6000 RPM, the four-cylinder is actually making more power than the six at any given RPM. The torque curves are even more interesting. Where the six built up to its peak torque at 3000 rpm then tapered off slightly, the turbo four hits peak torque at 1300 RPM and holds it to 5000 RPM before tapering off.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 09:52 AM   #34
Lucky13
Lucky13
United_States
211
Rep
1,762
Posts

Drives: 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30X
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Columbia, S.C.

iTrader: (0)

Give me the 4. I've had the 6 in about 5 BMW's and the gas milage is at best average. Everyone is missing the importance of direct injection on the gas milage comparing it to 7 year old Honda technology. Gov't is mandating better gas milage so live with it as you really don't have an option. Why would they put a 4 in the car if it isn't going to get better milage (makes no sense at all)? The urbo 4 in our 2010 Clubman S is smooth and a blast to crank thru the gears so I have to assume the 2.0 will be even better. When gas is $5-6 bucks in a year or two good luck with your inline 6's. Great engine at high revs, smooth as hell, but without a stick you can't maximize that engine.
__________________
1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8, 2000 528i, 2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0, 2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive, 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30i Xdrive
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 10:01 AM   #35
Pinoyako
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 2011 X3 28i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
Give me the 4. I've had the 6 in about 5 BMW's and the gas milage is at best average. Everyone is missing the importance of direct injection on the gas milage comparing it to 7 year old Honda technology. Gov't is mandating better gas milage so live with it as you really don't have an option. Why would they put a 4 in the car if it isn't going to get better milage (makes no sense at all)? The urbo 4 in our 2010 Clubman S is smooth and a blast to crank thru the gears so I have to assume the 2.0 will be even better. When gas is $5-6 bucks in a year or two good luck with your inline 6's. Great engine at high revs, smooth as hell, but without a stick you can't maximize that engine.
The I4 is NOT a hybrid engine. Still we will pay for gas. The Canadian BMW site states that the X1 with the I4 compared with the X3 I6, there is only a difference of 1 liter of gas per 100km. Yes you will save but less than a cup of coffee. Not really a huge savings. Just me...looking for the silver lining
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 12:52 PM   #36
Mako
(Sold) '00 M Roadster '06 M Coupe '16 M3 '20 X3MC
1545
Rep
2,587
Posts

Drives: '23 M3 comp
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago suburbs

iTrader: (0)

Not sure if anyone has seen the 2012 production schedule sticky post, but it appears as though its only 7 months of production ending in March 2013, makes you think there will be a mid year engine swap, not sure why they don't just start 2012 with the new i4, but it doesn't look like they are (otherwise why would they only have 7 months of production)? also interesting is that thread shows the 35i ends production in March as well, I can't see them changing that engine mid year.

No mention of 35D
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 12:54 PM   #37
clarence
Lieutenant Colonel
53
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoHR View Post
In my experience, the whole "better efficiency" claim for four cylinder turbos goes right out the window when driven in anything approaching an enthusiastic manner.
For the N52, driving enthusiastically is a must as there's too much weight for the torque. For the N20, u can just probably let the torque do it's work & so at the end of the day u'll use less fuel.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 12:56 PM   #38
tuco44
Colonel
tuco44's Avatar
Canada
644
Rep
2,294
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Canada

iTrader: (0)

My dealer is telling me the N20 is coming in the 2012 X3 28i starting some time this coming Fall.
__________________
2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Sunset Orange
Previous BMWs - 19 others since 1971.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 01:12 PM   #39
clarence
Lieutenant Colonel
53
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoyako View Post
The Canadian BMW site states that the X1 with the I4 compared with the X3 I6, there is only a difference of 1 liter of gas per 100km.
BMW's German site stated the X1 28i will do 0-100 in 6.5s w/combined fuel consumption of 7.9l/100km & emissions of 183g/km of CO2. For the X3 28i (EU-spec w/258ps), 0-100 is done in 6.9s w/combined fuel consumption of 9l/100km & emissions of 210g/km of CO2. 1l/100km is not an inconsiderable sum in percentage terms & theoretically the range on a tank of fuel is extended by 100kms.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 01:15 PM   #40
clarence
Lieutenant Colonel
53
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Not sure if anyone has seen the 2012 production schedule sticky post, but it appears as though its only 7 months of production ending in March 2013, makes you think there will be a mid year engine swap, not sure why they don't just start 2012 with the new i4, but it doesn't look like they are (otherwise why would they only have 7 months of production)? also interesting is that thread shows the 35i ends production in March as well, I can't see them changing that engine mid year.

No mention of 35D
BMW make changes to their products twice per yr - March & September of every yr, so MY12 will end 3/12 as we'll then have MY12 1/2.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 02:42 PM   #41
pokerface
Colonel
pokerface's Avatar
Canada
428
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: F25 X3 N20 / F80 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoyako View Post
The I4 is NOT a hybrid engine. Still we will pay for gas. The Canadian BMW site states that the X1 with the I4 compared with the X3 I6, there is only a difference of 1 liter of gas per 100km. Yes you will save but less than a cup of coffee. Not really a huge savings. Just me...looking for the silver lining
I just realized your name meant Pinoy Ako.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2011, 11:44 PM   #42
clarence
Lieutenant Colonel
53
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoyako View Post
Just me...looking for the silver lining
If u like/already bought the N52, no need to feel bad abt it.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2011, 08:37 AM   #43
Pinoyako
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 2011 X3 28i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerface View Post
I just realized your name meant Pinoy Ako.
Yes, cause I am.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2011, 08:21 PM   #44
KenH
Private First Class
United_States
3
Rep
117
Posts

Drives: e92m3 f25x3 e71x6
Join Date: May 2008
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Should I complain that my 2012 28i X3 has a 6 cylinder engine?
Or is it just that many dealer employees don't know what they are talking about?
Aprll/May 2012 might bring the engine change.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST