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      04-28-2012, 09:27 AM   #1
Chroissy
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X3 - Off-road ability

Hi Guys,

Well I finally did it and ordered a new X3 and will surrender my well used and reliable Shogun when it arrives in a month. I chose the X3 after fairly extensive comparison work on the various cars in the range, and the X3 came out on top in most of my criteria. However, as I use the Shogun for quite a lot of off-road work - nothing too rugged, but deep mud, very wet fields etc. I have a lingering concern that the X3 will prove to be a fairly soft off-roader which will not get me across some wet and muddy terrain in the cold and wet of winter.

Am I going to disappointed with this aspect of the car - incidentally it is the automatic, 2 litre diesel version

Cheers

Chris
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      04-28-2012, 10:27 AM   #2
Bimar
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I think you are describing light offroading which it should do. See if any of your conditions are like the link below http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469982
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      04-28-2012, 10:54 AM   #3
TreeSkier
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I did some offroading the first week I had my 35i in around Bryce Canyon, Utah. It was primarily dirt roads with some very slick muddy spots, the worst being about 6 - 12 inches of slick deep mud about 100 ft long. In addition, I went through some blizzard conditions coming through a 11,000 ft pass at night with about 6 inches of heavy wet slushy snow on fairly steep mountain pass. Granted these are extremely tough conditions but the X3 with xDrive handled it better than any other AWD car I've owned. (RAV4 with AWD lock, Ford Escape with AWD lock, Subaru Outback, 1987 Toyota VAN 4WD and a 2007 Land Rover LR2). No of these vehicles had a low range and the major limiting factors was power, locking differntial, and All Season tires. From what I could tell with the X3, the tires were primary the real limiting factor (if you ignore under body protection).

The key is to disable DTC. Here's info from the manual. There is also a setting to disable DSC, or Dynamic Stability Control. It's the same button to disable DSC and DTC, but I think disabling DSC is when you want to let the back end slide during corners for more high performance driving and is adjusted automatically with Dynamic Driving Control or whatever the call it, in Sport and Sport Plus.

DTC Dynamic Traction
Control
The concept
The DTC system is a version of the DSC in which
forward momentum is optimized.
The system ensures maximum forward momentum
on special road conditions, e.g., unplowed
snowy roads, but driving stability is limited.
It is therefore necessary to drive with appropriate
caution.
You may find it useful to briefly activate DTC under
the following special circumstances:
▷ When driving in slush or on uncleared,
snow-covered roads.
▷ When rocking the vehicle or driving off in
deep snow or on loose surfaces.
▷ When driving with snow chains.

Deactivating/activating DTC Dynamic
Traction Control
Activating the Dynamic Traction Control DTC
provides maximum traction on loose ground.
Driving stability is limited during acceleration
and when driving in bends.

Activating DTC
Press the button.
TRACTION is displayed in the instrument
cluster and the indicator lamp for DSC
lights up.

Deactivating DTC
Press the button again.
TRACTION and the DSC indicator lamp
go out.

Last edited by TreeSkier; 04-28-2012 at 02:19 PM.. Reason: Forgot about my 2007 Land Rover LR2
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      04-28-2012, 12:58 PM   #4
vojak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavid2 View Post
I did some offroading the first week I had my 35i in around Bryce Canyon, Utah. It was primarily dirt roads with some very slick muddy spots, the worst being about 6 - 12 inches of slick deep mud about 100 ft long. In addition, I went through some blizzard conditions coming through a 11,000 ft pass at night with about 6 inches of heavy wet slushy snow on fairly steep mountain pass. Granted these are extremely tough conditions but the X3 with xDrive handled it better than any other AWD car I've owned. (RAV4 with AWD lock, Ford Escape with AWD lock, Subaru Outback, 1987 Toyota VAN 4WD). No of these vehicles had a low range and the major limiting factors was power, locking differntial, and All Season tires. From what I could tell with the X3, the tires were primary the real limiting factor (if you ignore under body protection).

The key is to disable DTC. Here's info from the manual. There is also a setting to disable DSC, or Dynamic Stability Control. It's the same button to disable DSC and DTC, but I think disabling DSC is when you want to let the back end slide during corners for more high performance driving and is adjusted automatically with Dynamic Driving Control or whatever the call it, in Sport and Sport Plus.

DTC Dynamic Traction
Control
The concept
The DTC system is a version of the DSC in which
forward momentum is optimized.
The system ensures maximum forward momentum
on special road conditions, e.g., unplowed
snowy roads, but driving stability is limited.
It is therefore necessary to drive with appropriate
caution.
You may find it useful to briefly activate DTC under
the following special circumstances:
▷ When driving in slush or on uncleared,
snow-covered roads.
▷ When rocking the vehicle or driving off in
deep snow or on loose surfaces.
▷ When driving with snow chains.

Deactivating/activating DTC Dynamic
Traction Control
Activating the Dynamic Traction Control DTC
provides maximum traction on loose ground.
Driving stability is limited during acceleration
and when driving in bends.

Activating DTC
Press the button.
TRACTION is displayed in the instrument
cluster and the indicator lamp for DSC
lights up.

Deactivating DTC
Press the button again.
TRACTION and the DSC indicator lamp
go out.
Good information, thanks.
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      04-28-2012, 01:43 PM   #5
troggy1969
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The tyres will be the limiting factor. Get the right tyres and it should go pretty much anywhere, just not sure how the electonics would handle deep mud and water. I think the traction control works from the ABS sensors and mud can block them.
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      04-28-2012, 01:49 PM   #6
Chroissy
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Thanks for the interesting replies. It will be light off-roading, but can involve very muddy conditions on unmade farm tracks and soft field conditions after heavy rain. In the winter it can involve climbing fairly steep roads in ice and snow, but the car hopefully will able to handle the fairly manageable conditions we get in the north west of England and Wales - except in those years when it isn't manageable!
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      04-28-2012, 05:07 PM   #7
paul386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troggy1969 View Post
The tyres will be the limiting factor. Get the right tyres and it should go pretty much anywhere, just not sure how the electonics would handle deep mud and water. I think the traction control works from the ABS sensors and mud can block them.
Pretty much... I don't know if any off road tires that fit the 18" and 19" wheel sizes though.
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      04-28-2012, 07:46 PM   #8
brissim
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Agree with the replies from troggy and paul - any limiting factor will be your tyres. With over 16,000 km now up on our 30d, probably 2-3,000km of that has been dirt roads. This has included everything from dry and dusty roads through to quite muddy and slippery. As long as you take it easy through these sections, I've had no problems. Have ventured into open paddocks once or twice and though admittily dry, have had no issues.

All this has been with cross-over type tyres (Pirelli Scorpions) which replaced the OEM tyres on delivery. Don't know what OEM tyres are used in the UK on the F25 X3 but here in Australia that are all road-biased performance tyres which will have their limitations even on light "offroad" duties. Don't think you need to go all the way to proper all terrain M&S tyres.

With the dirt road driving I have done, perhaps the only complaint I do have is that the rear window gets dusty/dirty much quicker than XC Volvos I've owned in the past. Just make sure you keep the water reservoir for the rear wiper topped up.

Tony
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      04-29-2012, 06:04 PM   #9
bcaz
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I'm a little confused. the excerpt from the manual says that DTC optimizes forward momentum and reduces stability in some conditions. What is the advantage of DIS-abling DTC? How would this improve off-road performance?

A second question -- I've never had all-wheel or 4-wheel drive before getting my X3. I have the DHP. what seetings do you recommend for relatively rough, washboard roads? Rocky, gravelly roads? Snowy roads? Is it better to set the dampers to Sport or to Normal?
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      04-30-2012, 12:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcaz View Post
I'm a little confused. the excerpt from the manual says that DTC optimizes forward momentum and reduces stability in some conditions. What is the advantage of DIS-abling DTC? How would this improve off-road performance?
The way I understand it is that DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) will try to stop the wheels that lose traction from spinning by reducing power to those wheels. In slippery conditions like snow/mud/sand/gravel, you don't want the power reduced to slipping wheels as they all can pretty much be slipping and the system will reduce power to all/most wheels. So, by disabling DTC, you will ensure that you get power to all wheels but at the expense of some stability control. I can testify that it works, but you can experiment in different conditions as some conditions, you might want maximum stability control.
This is different than disabling DSC (Dynamic Stability Control), that requires holding down the button for about 5 secs. This more aggressively disables the Stability Control Systems that simply disabling DTC and can be used for sportier driving.

From the manual:
DSC prevents traction loss in the driving wheels
when driving away and accelerating.
DSC also recognizes unstable vehicle conditions,
such as fishtailing or nose-diving. Subject
to physical limits, DSC helps to keep the vehicle
on a steady course by reducing engine speed
and by applying brakes at individual wheels.
Adjust your driving style to the situation
An appropriate driving style is always the
responsibility of the driver.
The laws of physics cannot be repealed, even
with DSC.
Therefore, do not reduce the additional safety
margin by driving in a risky manner.◀

Press and hold the button, but not longer
than approx. 10 seconds, until the
indicator lamp for DSC lights up in the instrument
cluster and DSC OFF is displayed.
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      04-30-2012, 01:47 AM   #11
Beyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcaz View Post
I'm a little confused. the excerpt from the manual says that DTC optimizes forward momentum and reduces stability in some conditions. What is the advantage of DIS-abling DTC? How would this improve off-road performance?
Ahh, don't we all love BMW's overly complicated electronics and cryptic explanations?

To my understanding from the most to least stable forms of traction control are DSC On > DTC On > DSC Off. DTC On works similar to DSC On in that all of the traction control systems associated with DSC On are still active with the exception that the wheels are now allowed some slippage, whereas DSC On allows no slippage and limits power to the wheel that is slipping. DTC On is useful for situations where some tire slippage is desired such as driving on snow/ice or sand. As to why anyone would want to disable DTC completely which is essentially DSC Off I have no idea and can only rule it out as doing it for fun.

From my experience driving on snow (3-6") DSC On copes adequately and in normal driving there didn't seem to be any reason to turn on DTC. However, I did go snow drifting and it was practically impossible to do it in DSC On as power to individuals wheels kept being reduced and required DTC to be turned on in order to drift. I don't recommend you to turn DSC Off as traction control is totally removed and when I tried it out things got pretty hairy.

Quote:
A second question -- I've never had all-wheel or 4-wheel drive before getting my X3. I have the DHP. what seetings do you recommend for relatively rough, washboard roads? Rocky, gravelly roads? Snowy roads? Is it better to set the dampers to Sport or to Normal?
Although I don't have DHP I would think you would want normal mode for poor terrain as the electronic dampers will soak up more of the blows, sport is for more spirited driving.
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      05-07-2012, 07:39 AM   #12
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Press the button once, and TRACTION will be displayed on VOD, meaning DTC is active. You do it mostly if you want to drive off on a loose surface like snow . After you move, you can leave it active but I have experienced on different types of snow that it gives more stability to deactivate it.

I do quite a lot of dirt road- mountain path driving with three different trucks, and what I can say is that both LR Freelander and Jeep Liberty are superior to X3 as conditions get tougher, but it does not mean that X3 is totally useless when off the road. As long as you keep your expectations at a moderate level and test the limits only when there is another truck around that can tow you, you will hardly be disappointed. After all why compromise from superb ride quality, extensive handling and more than adequate performance with impressive economy on road . Only X3 gives you all above, not the others.
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