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      01-23-2014, 10:08 PM   #1
Scottaw
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X3 Heater Issues, now with temperature curves

So I've felt the X3 hasn't been providing heat adequately in the colder weather and decided to measure the temperature coming out the center vents. I observed that in auto, it takes forever to heat up. In manual, it's a bit better. But compared to other vehicles in the past, including my wife's current Tiguan, it does not heat nearly as well.

If anyone here has an infrared thermometer, or one that can be inserted into the vents like a meat thermometer, could you compare your X3 to the temp curves below? Thanks!

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      01-24-2014, 01:13 AM   #2
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I felt the same when I first picked up the car, then I realized there's a little dial in the middle of the two centre vents which u can control the cold/hot air coming out regardless the temp setting. (Without AC on).

Turn the dial up towards the red and you should feel the difference.
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      01-24-2014, 02:49 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchsu View Post
I felt the same when I first picked up the car, then I realized there's a little dial in the middle of the two centre vents which u can control the cold/hot air coming out regardless the temp setting. (Without AC on).

Turn the dial up towards the red and you should feel the difference.
+1 and the dial in center console for the rear seats too....
Seems odd having air con with sided temp control and then a manual for the vents but seems to work fine.
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      01-24-2014, 04:07 AM   #4
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In addition to the advice for the centre vents you could try turning the fan way down. This is if the auto isn't turning it down for you already. If the fan is really on max then as the engine tries to warm up you are extracting any heat from it preventing it warming up quickly.
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      01-24-2014, 05:07 AM   #5
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Thanks for the input so far everyone. However, I am aware of the dial, and fan speed makes no difference.

Furthermore, I had a 320 loaner recently, and that car heated up just fine like any other car. What I suspect is the X3 may be a poor performer for heat, or I may have some other issue going on.
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      01-24-2014, 05:12 AM   #6
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Our weather hasn't been cold but my diesel heats up quickly, which is often not the case for diesels in general - they take longer than petrol (gas) engine to warm up.
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      01-24-2014, 11:37 AM   #7
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I believe since you are not baking cookies, there is more to it than just heat out of vents. My guess is that the two other cars you mentioned have a smaller interior cabin volume plus the surface area of heat exchanging materials such as glass is less than the X3. At the vent temperatures you are referring to; it's just a matter of how much time the heater will run to bring the temperature up to your chosen ambient temp such as 70 degrees F. If volume is the same, a 200 F vent output will run a shorter time than say a 150 F. But after that the ambient temperature should be relatively stable.
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      01-24-2014, 01:29 PM   #8
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We have been experiencing sub zero temperatures here and I have not perceived a problem with my X3. I do think it takes a little longer to heat the cabin than a smaller car might be able to do but I just perceive that to be a minor thing due to the amount of surface area including the glass (especially) that is cold soaked and fighting the heater. The cabin always gets as warm as I want it without any issue.

Now, that funky knob between the two center dash vents is a strange thing to have when the HVAC system is supposed to be automatic. It will definetly make the air coming out of the vents very hot. On the other hand, on very cold days, I think the air coming out of the center dash vents is a little too cool if the knob is not turned towards warm. I have no clue why it is needed and why the automatic system cannot successfully control this air temperature like it does on every other car that has an automatic system. I also dont why the system has an intensity setting (using the fan speed buttons) when it is in automatic mode. This is another function that other cars do successfully fully automatically by looking at sun load, exterior temperatures and interior tempertures. Although the system works very well it just requires too much driver intervention for an automatic system.

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      01-25-2014, 03:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
We have been experiencing sub zero temperatures here and I have not perceived a problem with my X3. I do think it takes a little longer to heat the cabin than a smaller car might be able to do but I just perceive that to be a minor thing due to the amount of surface area including the glass (especially) that is cold soaked and fighting the heater. The cabin always gets as warm as I want it without any issue.

Now, that funky knob between the two center dash vents is a strange thing to have when the HVAC system is supposed to be automatic. It will definetly make the air coming out of the vents very hot. On the other hand, on very cold days, I think the air coming out of the center dash vents is a little too cool if the knob is not turned towards warm. I have no clue why it is needed and why the automatic system cannot successfully control this air temperature like it does on every other car that has an automotic system. I also dont why the system has an intensity setting (using the fan speed buttons) when it is in automatic mode. This is another function that other cars do successfully fully automatically by looking at sun load, exterior temperatures and interior tempertures. Although the system works very well it just requires too much driver intervention for an automatic system.
The dial between the vents allows driver/passenger to have cooler air at face level. Personally I find this a great feature .... It's nice to keep the general temperature warm but have some fresh face air !

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      01-25-2014, 05:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
Our weather hasn't been cold but my diesel heats up quickly, which is often not the case for diesels in general - they take longer than petrol (gas) engine to warm up.
Remember the diesel engine warm up speed is masked by the electric PTC heating element in the HVAC system, so not comparable to the petrol engines these days.

I miss my diesel 330d fast heat up, as the 535i has to get heat from the engine, not an auxiliary electric heater, so much slower. It is the only negative about the petrol engine, slow cabin warm up.

And to think it used to be a diesel issue a few years back, when we'd wait forever for cabin heat.

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      01-25-2014, 05:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMS View Post
The dial between the vents allows driver/passenger to have cooler air at face level. Personally I find this a great feature .... It's nice to keep the general temperature warm but have some fresh face air !

MS
Same here, had it my BMW models for years, another level up from most cars, IMO.

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      01-25-2014, 05:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottaw View Post
So I've felt the X3 hasn't been providing heat adequately in the colder weather and decided to measure the temperature coming out the center vents. I observed that in auto, it takes forever to heat up. In manual, it's a bit better. But compared to other vehicles in the past, including my wife's current Tiguan, it does not heat nearly as well.

If anyone here has an infrared thermometer, or one that can be inserted into the vents like a meat thermometer, could you compare your X3 to the temp curves below? Thanks!
As we get better fuel efficiency the heating systems are slower to warm up, less waste heat.

My 535i is the slowest warming petrol engine I've ever had, but watching the ECT, it is slow to get to temperature on cold days. Can't have efficiency and cabin heat, unless like the diesels, we have the electric element in the system.

How quickly does your engine get to temperature?

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      01-25-2014, 05:56 PM   #13
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Horrible IMO. When it's single-digits like this it takes 20 minutes before the oil temp needle even gets off the 160 mark, and some days it never gets above 160 at all.

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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
As we get better fuel efficiency the heating systems are slower to warm up, less waste heat.

My 535i is the slowest warming petrol engine I've ever had, but watching the ECT, it is slow to get to temperature on cold days. Can't have efficiency and cabin heat, unless like the diesels, we have the electric element in the system.

How quickly does your engine get to temperature?

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      01-26-2014, 02:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Scottaw View Post
Horrible IMO. When it's single-digits like this it takes 20 minutes before the oil temp needle even gets off the 160 mark, and some days it never gets above 160 at all.
That is low, indicating your engine load is light. Could be worth checking the ECT via the hidden menu, to ensure you don't have a thermostat issue. See how ECT is doing in the warm up phase, although I doubt anything is adrift.

BTW, what engine have you in the VW Tiguan?

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      01-26-2014, 03:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Remember the diesel engine warm up speed is masked by the electric PTC heating element in the HVAC system, so not comparable to the petrol engines these days.

I miss my diesel 330d fast heat up, as the 535i has to get heat from the engine, not an auxiliary electric heater, so much slower. It is the only negative about the petrol engine, slow cabin warm up.

And to think it used to be a diesel issue a few years back, when we'd wait forever for cabin heat.

HighlandPete
As you can tell I wasn't aware of the heating element.

Thanks!
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      01-26-2014, 05:55 AM   #16
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Yes, that's why I suspect a partially stuck thermostat valve, and some research shows this problem has occured on other BMW's too.

The Tiguan is also a 2.0 turbo, so should be a fair comparison to the 2.0 turbo of the BMW in terms of engine heat creation.


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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That is low, indicating your engine load is light. Could be worth checking the ECT via the hidden menu, to ensure you don't have a thermostat issue. See how ECT is doing in the warm up phase, although I doubt anything is adrift.

BTW, what engine have you in the VW Tiguan?

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      01-26-2014, 05:56 AM   #17
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Oh, and where is the hidden menu you speak of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That is low, indicating your engine load is light. Could be worth checking the ECT via the hidden menu, to ensure you don't have a thermostat issue. See how ECT is doing in the warm up phase, although I doubt anything is adrift.

BTW, what engine have you in the VW Tiguan?

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      01-27-2014, 08:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottaw View Post
Oh, and where is the hidden menu you speak of?
The menu you can view by using the last 5 digits of the VIN as the code.

Worth a search to see how you access.

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      01-29-2014, 12:13 AM   #19
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Have the dealer check it out. My '12 F25 was doing the same thing and it turned out a sensor was bad that controls how much outside air gets into the car. Mine was blowing freezing wisconsin air in with the warm heater air at the same time.

It would eventually heat up, but that 70 degree air was NOT 70 degrees...
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      01-29-2014, 07:41 AM   #20
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Thanks for the feedback, I've forwarded this information to my dealer for their thoughts. Can you describe in more detail what the symptoms or behavior was? Was there an associated fault code that helped your dealer diagnose the issue?

Another thing I experienced in this morning's -12 degree F weather as I neared the end of my 20 minute drive to work, with the HVAC in Auto/84/max fan, was the air coming out of the vents went from fairly nice warming air temps to downright cold air temps. This lasted about a minute or so, and right after I parked at work the temperature then went back to warm air. I don't understand why this occurs from time to time, and makes me wonder if the same sensor isn't going bad and causing this.


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Originally Posted by capnmorganxx View Post
Have the dealer check it out. My '12 F25 was doing the same thing and it turned out a sensor was bad that controls how much outside air gets into the car. Mine was blowing freezing wisconsin air in with the warm heater air at the same time.

It would eventually heat up, but that 70 degree air was NOT 70 degrees...
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