[3Bimmer]

All,

I've read the myriad discussions on the finer points of the Dynamic Handling Package on this board and others. One question remains that I hope those that had a similar question can comment on...

In Normal (or Comfort) mode, is the ride softer with or without DHP? I understand the differences in Sport and Sport+, those settings make sense. My question is since most of my driving will be in Normal, does it make sense to have DHP? Will I still see a benefit in that mode?

Thanks!

[Nahoa]

I think you're intending to ask about DDC not DHP. If that seems right to you on review, dynamic dampers aren't about soft or not soft. They're about producing better whatever mode you're in -- comfort (normal) or sport.

Most people here think dynamic in dynamic dampers means the change between normal and sport, it doesn't.

[lbjgh]

Normal (i.e. comfort mode) will be softer than the standard suspension when the car is equipped with dynamic dampers.

In my car I even have the sport setting using the softer suspension setting too leaving sport+ for full hooligan mode.

[ReturnZero]

I don't have mine yet (I ordered DHP) but from what I've heard normal mode is softer than the standard suspension and sport mode is firmer. Best of both worlds - in theory - which is why I decided to order it.

[MetaX]

Originally Posted by Nahoa

I think you're intending to ask about DDC not DHP. If that seems right to you on review, dynamic dampers aren't about soft or not soft. They're about producing better whatever mode you're in -- comfort (normal) or sport.

Most people here think dynamic in dynamic dampers means the change between normal and sport, it doesn't.

Ah this has been a question lingering in my noggin for a while but I was reluctant to start another DHP thread for it. I always thought that whatever mode you have your car in, the dampers still dynamically adjust based on road and driving conditions via software that is constantly measuring damper movement. You also have some control via the various modes that change how aggressively the dampers clamp down on compression and rebound resulting in softer or firmer rides. With non-DHP cars, the compression and rebound damping is "hard wired" so to speak to the fixed valving (no software control).

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by MetaX

Ah this has been a question lingering in my noggin for a while but I was reluctant to start another DHP thread for it. I always thought that whatever mode you have your car in, the dampers still dynamically adjust based on road and driving conditions via software that is constantly measuring damper movement. You also have some control via the various modes that change how aggressively the dampers clamp down on compression and rebound resulting in softer or firmer rides. With non-DHP cars, the compression and rebound damping is "hard wired" so to speak to the fixed valving (no software control).

THIS IS EXACTLY CORRECT THANK GOD SOMEBODY FINALLY UNDERSTANDS.

[drpurple]

Originally Posted by MetaX

Ah this has been a question lingering in my noggin for a while but I was reluctant to start another DHP thread for it. I always thought that whatever mode you have your car in, the dampers still dynamically adjust based on road and driving conditions via software that is constantly measuring damper movement. You also have some control via the various modes that change how aggressively the dampers clamp down on compression and rebound resulting in softer or firmer rides. With non-DHP cars, the compression and rebound damping is "hard wired" so to speak to the fixed valving (no software control).

Thanks for the info. Still doesn't tell me whether to spend the extra $1400, but at least gives the brain more info to ponder :-)
My main concerns re DDC in the DHP: more parts to break.

[Nahoa]

Originally Posted by juddholland

THIS IS EXACTLY CORRECT THANK GOD SOMEBODY FINALLY UNDERSTANDS.

+1

[lbjgh]

Just wondering how the standard suspension changes without dampers that can adjust? Other than the variable dampers what specific suspension components change? Enquiring minds want to know...

Originally Posted by juddholland

THIS IS EXACTLY CORRECT THANK GOD SOMEBODY FINALLY UNDERSTANDS.

[Nahoa]

Adjusting suspension parameters (damping is one) via a hard/soft switch and dynamically controlling a parameter (damping could be one) based on sensed road onditions are two different things. The second could be described as dynamic, the first not.

[Le Chef]

If you don't have DDC your suspension does not adjust. Check your BMW parts dept. for confirmation of that if you don't believe me.

[Nahoa]

We're saying two different things that are not contradictory; they involve the same system but are different functions.

You're saying to have an adjustable suspension (normal to sport via the rocker) you have to have the dynamic dampers. I'm saying that the difference between normal and sport is accomplished by adjusting (at least, and I think only) the dampers BUT that is not the "dynamic damper" function.

The dynamic damper function is the car taking data from its sensors and adjusting the damping coefficient selectively on all four wheels in real time; e.g. a little looser for the back right 'cause the front right just hit a pot hole and it figures the back is about to hit same and then tightening it back up afterword to produce the ride the rocker is set to -- normal or sport. This real time adjustment in response to detected input is the dynamic portion; switching between normal and sport is not.

Read the BMW description of the systems (posted here before) and you'll see it says just this. It doesn't say whether they're adjusting only the damping to change between sport and normal; since they don't mention adjusting any other suspension parameters I expect it's just the dampers.

[Le Chef]

My point is that if you have DDC you have suspension that's constantly adapting AND a Sport setting which increases damper frequency to provide a narrower range of operation that makes the suspension stiffer.

If you do not have DDC, the rocker switch does not change the suspension in any way. The non DDC dampers are fixed monotubes with nothing to change on them.

[bren]

Oh my, this is back again?

Originally Posted by Le Chef

My point is that if you have DDC you have suspension that's constantly adapting AND a Sport setting which increases damper frequency to provide a narrower range of operation that makes the suspension stiffer.

If you do not have DDC, the rocker switch does not change the suspension in any way. The non DDC dampers are fixed monotubes with nothing to change on them.

THIS IS EXACTLY CORRECT THANK GOD SOMEBODY FINALLY UNDERSTANDS.



---

Actually, BMW could be using something like the Koni FSD with trick internal bits that "dynamically" adjust without any micro-processing, but that's not what they are promoting, and so it's not really relevant, and never mind that I said anything.

[ReturnZero]

Originally Posted by Nahoa

We're saying two different things that are not contradictory; they involve the same system but are different functions.

You're saying to have an adjustable suspension (normal to sport via the rocker) you have to have the dynamic dampers. I'm saying that the difference between normal and sport is accomplished by adjusting (at least, and I think only) the dampers BUT that is not the "dynamic damper" function.

The dynamic damper function is the car taking data from its sensors and adjusting the damping coefficient selectively on all four wheels in real time; e.g. a little looser for the back right 'cause the front right just hit a pot hole and it figures the back is about to hit same and then tightening it back up afterword to produce the ride the rocker is set to -- normal or sport. This real time adjustment in response to detected input is the dynamic portion; switching between normal and sport is not.

Read the BMW description of the systems (posted here before) and you'll see it says just this. It doesn't say whether they're adjusting only the damping to change between sport and normal; since they don't mention adjusting any other suspension parameters I expect it's just the dampers.

I think overall you're both correct, the "dynamic" portion is the realtime adjustment of the dampers in response to road conditions, and "Normal" v "Sport" are just two different programs that define these realtime adjustments to be perceived as softer or firmer.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ReturnZero

I think overall you're both correct, the "dynamic" portion is the realtime adjustment of the dampers in response to road conditions, and "Normal" v "Sport" are just two different programs that define these realtime adjustments to be perceived as softer or firmer.

Yes that is how it is, the switched settings are just the baseline control modes. Each will be as soft as possible and as firm as necessary, within the scope of each mode.

There is a lot of confusion, when we think in terms of passive suspension, as to how active suspension sits in the 'stiffness' rating. But as it is variable it is different anyway, not really comparable, as it it more refined in either mode.

One other confusion is, EDC, VDC or whatever it is called at the time, has taken different forms. One of the best is EDC-K as used in the E92 M3, it has 'Comfort' and 'Normal' settings, just as our latest VDC which are automatic continuous control, but EDC-K also has a 'Sport' setting which is uncontrolled, has a fixed damper map, so acts the same way as a passive sport damping system.

For me, the adaptive suspension is far more advanced than any passive system and improves the ride and handling quality. That would apply even if there was only one mode. The fact we can run different modes and still get the refinement of smooth ride and better handling, makes it worth the cost. Testing a 5-series with Adaptive Drive really impresses, as it improves the dynamics, a much more refined and better drive.

BTW, I run the Koni FSD 'selective' damper on my E91 and that improves the ride and handling, without electronics. The Koni FSD is similar to the Mercedes approach, with the Agility Control Package with its mechanical selective damping system.

The mechanical selective dampers are a 'half-way' solution to improved damping, such as the current adaptive package.

HighlandPete

[3Bimmer]

Thanks, all, for the great responses and information.

Based on this discussion, some online research and digesting written and video reviews, I have added DHP to my order.

Now, what does this system do again?

This board is the best!

[ReturnZero]

Did you find any video reviews of the DHP (or DDC) specifically? I'd be interested in seeing those.

[lbjgh]

Try this: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...b-732048a9e3fb

Originally Posted by ReturnZero

Did you find any video reviews of the DHP (or DDC) specifically? I'd be interested in seeing those.

[3Bimmer]

This guy mentions it at 2:58

I'll see if I can dig up the other ones I saw.

[Nahoa]

Originally Posted by ReturnZero

I think overall you're both correct, the "dynamic" portion is the realtime adjustment of the dampers in response to road conditions, and "Normal" v "Sport" are just two different programs that define these realtime adjustments to be perceived as softer or firmer.

Yes.

[Nahoa]

Originally Posted by Le Chef

My point is that if you have DDC you have suspension that's constantly adapting AND a Sport setting which increases damper frequency to provide a narrower range of operation that makes the suspension stiffer.

If you do not have DDC, the rocker switch does not change the suspension in any way. The non DDC dampers are fixed monotubes with nothing to change on them.

Yes, now we're saying he same thing. Before we were just focusing on different aspects that made it seem potentially contradictory, but it wasn't . . . I think.