[darcyb62]

Originally Posted by momo28

p.s. have you got your vehicle back?

Nope. I checked with the dealer and I guess they are still working on the fix. I've been driving around in a brand new 2014 320i which has been okay but it certainly isn't the x3 i bought.
They've said a couple of times that they could put a new PDM in as a temporary measure and I can bring it in when the new PDM is available but with the weather swings we've been having that wasn't even an option from my perspective. Also, having their loaner keeps some onus on them to get it fixed.

I expect it will be another 2 weeks.

We should get a pool going.

[darcyb62]

Latest update from my dealer:

"Nothing yet, they are still testing and looking at an option of fixing the issue via software as cycling power through the module prior to start up fixes the issue.
Should know more early next week."

[nikolaig]

Originally Posted by darcyb62

Latest update from my dealer:

"Nothing yet, they are still testing and looking at an option of fixing the issue via software as cycling power through the module prior to start up fixes the issue.
Should know more early next week."

Was anyone on the south side from Canada brave enough to make a complaint to NHTSA about this issue? Not to cause troubles for BMW, but to ensure they are obliged to fully work this issue out and provide the fix for everyone. I think this issue is a good reason for safety recall. Being stranded in cold with the car not being able to start is indeed a safety issue.

My dealer just pushed me out with new PDM. Although they did tell me that it is the same PDM, just the new part. I am not even sure it is new, probably they just removed it from another car to get rid of the customer's cars as quickly as possible. They know that the issue will reoccur but they were hoping that Punxsutawney Phil would not see his shadow and the early spring will make the issue non-reproducible.

I am looking forward to another cold blow to have this issue reoccurring. This time, when the temperature will be low enough I will be driving, not my wife. I will carefully film and document everything And if it happens again with new PDM I will definitely have a reason to be very angry about BMW releasing the car knowing that it has a safety issue.

[Bhimboy]

We got this BMW X3 in October 2013. We had DRIVE TRAIN MALFUNCTION Error 3 times so far. Pattern seems to be exactly as described by others.
Since Dec 13, this Vehicle is at the Dealership. When enquired, BMW Canada wrote back about Power Distribution Module has been identified and the factory Engineers are working for a fix. Interestingly BMW Canada has offered 2 Year Extended Warranty to us. Not sure only to us or Why for us? Anybody else out there been offered this Complimentary Gesture to restore faith in the Brand?

[darcyb62]

I'm on a lease so the EW doesn't make sense to me but they have provided other options.

[Tomfirstbmw]

Originally Posted by darcyb62

Have them the call the Dilawri dealership in Regina if you think they are giving you the runaround. Or maybe even call them yourself.

Hello all,

Sounds like darcyb62 knows this is an issue. can you come to my house and fix it....lol

I just got my first "used" BMW and love it but drove my kids to school and came back and the car didn't start. i called roadside and while on the phone i tried again about 5min and it started? is this the same issue? i did get that warning on the display.

So i called the the dealer Dilawri and asked about it and they told me that they don't know of this issue? should i even go there if they don't know?

I spoke to a service advisor didn't get the name but i should call back to get the name.

does anyone know who i can speak to there that knows whats going on and will get my car fixed?

Thanks
Tom

[darcyb62]

Originally Posted by Tomfirstbmw

Hello all,

Sounds like darcyb62 knows this is an issue. can you come to my house and fix it....lol

I just got my first "used" BMW and love it but drove my kids to school and came back and the car didn't start. i called roadside and while on the phone i tried again about 5min and it started? is this the same issue? i did get that warning on the display.

So i called the the dealer Dilawri and asked about it and they told me that they don't know of this issue? should i even go there if they don't know?

I spoke to a service advisor didn't get the name but i should call back to get the name.

does anyone know who i can speak to there that knows whats going on and will get my car fixed?

Thanks
Tom

Your description of what happened is bang on.

They know. They have 5 or 6 X3s waiting for the fix. Talk to Dallas.

[nikolaig]

Originally Posted by Bhimboy

We got this BMW X3 in October 2013. We had DRIVE TRAIN MALFUNCTION Error 3 times so far. Pattern seems to be exactly as described by others.
Since Dec 13, this Vehicle is at the Dealership. When enquired, BMW Canada wrote back about Power Distribution Module has been identified and the factory Engineers are working for a fix. Interestingly BMW Canada has offered 2 Year Extended Warranty to us. Not sure only to us or Why for us? Anybody else out there been offered this Complimentary Gesture to restore faith in the Brand?

Nothing like this on my side. Just a formal "sorry for your inconvenience" and "your dealer will be fixing the car as many times as needed as long it is under warranty". What faith are you talking about?

[darcyb62]

Originally Posted by nikolaig

Nothing like this on my side. Just a formal "sorry for your inconvenience" and "your dealer will be fixing the car as many times as needed as long it is under warranty". What faith are you talking about?

So when I brought my car in for the second time in less than a month for the same problem, they said that BMW's policy is to keep the car until a permanent fix is found for a recurring problem. Their definition of recurring was more than once. They offered up a rental for me until a permanent fix was provided. They did say that they would replace the PDM for me as a temporary fix until the permanent fix came out but would experience the same issues when the temperatures dropped. I took the loaner. At -30C today I am glad I did.
I am actually surprised with the rather dramatic variances in dealer response.

[Bhimboy]

I am aware there are no Lemon Laws in Canada.

If a car needs to be out of service in a shop for an extended period - above 4 weeks - or the Dealer cannot fix the original problem in 3 times - there are good chances that the court could order a buy back. I maybe wrong here. But I am thinking of taking a Legal Consultation on this. This applies to the first 3 years under 160000 kms.

Is BMW Canada still selling this X3 2014 or has stopped marketing it

If they are selling - is the Defective PDM being disclosed prior or not

Would be interested to know this.

[Stangboss]

It is actually not a defective PDM. It is the placement of the PDM on the X3. My wife's 2013 X3 was "grounded" due to this, but my 2013 335iX -- which has the exact same part is good to go, as the PDM is tucked up and hidden.

[nikolaig]

Originally Posted by darcyb62

So when I brought my car in for the second time in less than a month for the same problem, they said that BMW's policy is to keep the car until a permanent fix is found for a recurring problem. Their definition of recurring was more than once. They offered up a rental for me until a permanent fix was provided. They did say that they would replace the PDM for me as a temporary fix until the permanent fix came out but would experience the same issues when the temperatures dropped. I took the loaner. At -30C today I am glad I did.
I am actually surprised with the rather dramatic variances in dealer response.

Yes. The dealer is not cooperating either, they just refuse to listen. I have send them a polite request to consider buying back the car. Did not even state any conditions, just tried to open a dialogue. No answer at all. I take it as "get lost, you was silly enough to buy the car from us - now enjoy the lack of lemon laws".

If my car dies for the third time I will take them to the court, I swear. Both, including the dealer for releasing the car with known safety defect.

[Bhimboy]

Originally Posted by nikolaig

Nothing like this on my side. Just a formal "sorry for your inconvenience" and "your dealer will be fixing the car as many times as needed as long it is under warranty". What faith are you talking about?

Sorry to note that you were not offered the Extra Warranty. But you can always ask BMW Canada why they offered me and not you. If you need a copy of BMW letter offering the Extra Warranty, I can provide it to you.

But at the same time it makes me worry if our car is more defective than any other car with PDM issues needing that Extra Warranty.

Anyway, I wrote back to BMW Canada saying that we do not want to drive this BMW risking our life and limb till it is permanently fixed 100% for good and we wanted to know if there any other options other than 2 EW.

Guys driving out this BMW with PDM issues - beware this car can stall or come to a stop in a critical situation like overtaking or going uphill and meet with a an accident. It will be impossible to prove the accident was caused by PDM related issue.

Sincerely,

BB

[nikolaig]

Originally Posted by Bhimboy

Sorry to note that you were not offered the Extra Warranty. But you can always ask BMW Canada why they offered me and not you. If you need a copy of BMW letter offering the Extra Warranty, I can provide it to you.

But at the same time it makes me worry if our car is more defective than any other car with PDM issues needing that Extra Warranty.

Anyway, I wrote back to BMW Canada saying that we do not want to drive this BMW risking our life and limb till it is permanently fixed 100% for good and we wanted to know if there any other options other than 2 EW.

Guys driving out this BMW with PDM issues - beware this car can stall or come to a stop in a critical situation like overtaking or going uphill and meet with a an accident. It will be impossible to prove the accident was caused by PDM related issue.

Sincerely,

BB

Thanks for the offering, I really appreciate it. I doubt BMW Canada is obliged to offer the same "retention bonus" to everyone...in fact, it looks like they are not obliged to do anything, even respect their customers. I do not know, maybe the threshold starts at $80K or more than one BMW, otherwise you do not get the same treatment I doubt BMW guys read this forums, but if they do - I hope they hear me. Yes, this case has a safety issue. And, yes, my dealer has released the car with a potential safety issue on the road. They knew the car needs a different part to resolve the issue completely, yet they have installed the same type of PDM just to get me out of the door. And maybe some other people too.

I am sure there was some pressure from BMW to get the cars out. Otherwise, how come I was told on Thursday that they do not expect my replacement part any time soon as there is no even tracking number for it (supposed to be shipped from Germany) and then they call me on Monday telling that the car is fixed and the part is installed. I bet it was removed from another car

My dealer seems to be willing to discuss the options, just got an email from them. Not sure what sort of discussion we will have, I doubt it will be useful. But they are few km from my place and if the car dies there - no towing will be needed Safe trip, in a way.

But, anyway, thanks a lot for sharing your experience. At least it sets the bar at certain level. Personally, in addition to the extended warranty I would ask for new AGM battery. Hell knows how that electrical issue might have affected the life span of the car's battery but for sure if I come with the dead battery 6 months from now they will proudly pull out the data from the car, look at my trip distances and say "your fault, poor driver profile".

[darcyb62]

Originally Posted by nikolaig

Thanks for the offering, I really appreciate it. I doubt BMW Canada is obliged to offer the same "retention bonus" to everyone...in fact, it looks like they are not obliged to do anything, even respect their customers. I do not know, maybe the threshold starts at $80K or more than one BMW, otherwise you do not get the same treatment I doubt BMW guys read this forums, but if they do - I hope they hear me. Yes, this case has a safety issue. And, yes, my dealer has released the car with a potential safety issue on the road. They knew the car needs a different part to resolve the issue completely, yet they have installed the same type of PDM just to get me out of the door. And maybe some other people too.

I am sure there was some pressure from BMW to get the cars out. Otherwise, how come I was told on Thursday that they do not expect my replacement part any time soon as there is no even tracking number for it (supposed to be shipped from Germany) and then they call me on Monday telling that the car is fixed and the part is installed. I bet it was removed from another car

My dealer seems to be willing to discuss the options, just got an email from them. Not sure what sort of discussion we will have, I doubt it will be useful. But they are few km from my place and if the car dies there - no towing will be needed Safe trip, in a way.

But, anyway, thanks a lot for sharing your experience. At least it sets the bar at certain level. Personally, in addition to the extended warranty I would ask for new AGM battery. Hell knows how that electrical issue might have affected the life span of the car's battery but for sure if I come with the dead battery 6 months from now they will proudly pull out the data from the car, look at my trip distances and say "your fault, poor driver profile".

It's really amazing how different our experiences have been with respect to this. I look at the communication I have had with my dealer and they've been very open and upfront with all of this. Basically what I would expect from a upscale auto dealership.
I told them from the get-go that this could go one of two ways and how it goes is really in there hands. They certainly accepted the challenge and I think excelled here.

[Bhimboy]

Originally Posted by nikolaig

Thanks for the offering, I really appreciate it. I doubt BMW Canada is obliged to offer the same "retention bonus" to everyone...in fact, it looks like they are not obliged to do anything, even respect their customers. I do not know, maybe the threshold starts at $80K or more than one BMW, otherwise you do not get the same treatment I doubt BMW guys read this forums, but if they do - I hope they hear me. Yes, this case has a safety issue. And, yes, my dealer has released the car with a potential safety issue on the road. They knew the car needs a different part to resolve the issue completely, yet they have installed the same type of PDM just to get me out of the door. And maybe some other people too.

I am sure there was some pressure from BMW to get the cars out. Otherwise, how come I was told on Thursday that they do not expect my replacement part any time soon as there is no even tracking number for it (supposed to be shipped from Germany) and then they call me on Monday telling that the car is fixed and the part is installed. I bet it was removed from another car

My dealer seems to be willing to discuss the options, just got an email from them. Not sure what sort of discussion we will have, I doubt it will be useful. But they are few km from my place and if the car dies there - no towing will be needed Safe trip, in a way.

But, anyway, thanks a lot for sharing your experience. At least it sets the bar at certain level. Personally, in addition to the extended warranty I would ask for new AGM battery. Hell knows how that electrical issue might have affected the life span of the car's battery but for sure if I come with the dead battery 6 months from now they will proudly pull out the data from the car, look at my trip distances and say "your fault, poor driver profile".

I first booked a legal consult and then had a 20 minute chat with Consumer Protection Bereau. If the car is out of service for an extended period of time or a specific issue is not resolved within a certain specified number of attempts, the consumer has the right to Reject the Car for Breach of Trust (not sure if this is the correct word he used). If the Dealer refuses to buy back, CPB can be approached. If the Dealer still remains entrenched in his stand, we have the right to approach Queens Bench. Hearing this I just cancelled the Legal Consult Appointment. Thought I should this with all out there with similar issue.

[bichoo]

This is a great thread and I'm glad to see i'm not the only person who has experienced this issue!

[nikolaig]

Originally Posted by Bhimboy

I first booked a legal consult and then had a 20 minute chat with Consumer Protection Bereau. If the car is out of service for an extended period of time or a specific issue is not resolved within a certain specified number of attempts, the consumer has the right to Reject the Car for Breach of Trust (not sure if this is the correct word he used). If the Dealer refuses to buy back, CPB can be approached. If the Dealer still remains entrenched in his stand, we have the right to approach Queens Bench. Hearing this I just cancelled the Legal Consult Appointment. Thought I should this with all out there with similar issue.

This is how it is different from the lemon laws in US. There you have (I believe) all these "extended" etc terms defined in absolute numbers, how many days out of service and how many unsuccessful attempts to fix it. Which makes it much easier for everyone.

I had a chat with my dealer, we are not done yet, just started talking about "what's next". BMW Canada clearly does not care too much, they only care about bad publicity - so, probably, my dealer is the only party that is somewhat interested in keeping me more or less happy - to a limit, of course. As for any litigation we all know that it is, for sure, costly and, for sure, the end result is not guaranteed. Since there is no law, it is up to the judge to decide if X days at the bay is "too long" or "acceptable".

So, basically, I am now trying to decide if I should give this car a chance to prove that it is not as bad as it appears to be so far (with all risks associated) or sell it, at loss of ~$1K/month, and move over to another brand. I am currently thinking about Acura MDX but, of course, it is just a thought. After spending over $60K cash on that BMW I was really hoping not having to spend any more $K on changing the cars (or on the car in general) for at least next ~2-3 years. So, trading the cars at this point seems to be not very practical (mathematically speaking). Of course, the leasing is an option too...

I am going to complete my research on "what else if not BMW X3" and will see what does the dealer have to say about me keeping the car for longer to give it a chance. I think the offer of extended warranty is the minimum that I would consider. Not that I would keep this car that long but it would be a gesture that I may appreciate + it would give me some confidence that I won't be footing the bill of $5K for repairs in a couple of months after the original warranty is over. And, probably, the cost of this extended warranty (what I would need to pay if I was to buy it) would be about the adequate compensation for my past troubles with the car - but not for the future ones if that trend continues.

[hostileharry]

I thought that I would add to the thread that my 2013 X3 2.8 bought on Dec 23, 2013 has received this Drivetrain Malfunction error twice; and both happened exactly as others in this thread stated. Started car and drove the kids to school, where the car was turned off to get the kids inside, went back outside and could not start the car for 10 minutes.

I'm located in Chicago and both days was extremely cold temperatures (-20 and -10) that swept through the area. I reported the first one to MotorWerks in Barrington (place of purchase) and they said 'It's just the cold weather, it will be fine'. Now that it's happened a second time and researching (thank you to this forums group) I have requested a long-term BMW loaner until the PDM defect is fixed.

It's unfortunate that the X3 has a defective design flaw, but I fully expect BMW and MotorWerks to honor my request... I can't have my wife and kids driving in a car that might not start because they turned it off and tried to turn it back on.

[nikolaig]

Originally Posted by hostileharry

I reported the first one to MotorWerks in Barrington (place of purchase) and they said 'It's just the cold weather, it will be fine'.

That's exactly where I see the problem. How would you argue with such an argument if the issue indeed does not happen every day, particular set of conditions is required and there is no way to diagnose it until it happens. Even for the judge it would be their word against yours. I am wondering how a consumer can deal with such situation.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that this is exactly the case for NHTSA (or Transport Canada in my case). Basically, a third party that is, hopefully, neutral to BMW and prioritizes the driver safety over anything else. They have to perform the independent investigation and decide if these cars are safe to drive until the permanent fix is available. That would be fair, I think.

Maybe you should consider at least filing the complaint to NHTSA. I believe the online procedure takes only few minutes. Hopefully if they receive several similar complains they will move. I did the same for Transport Canada.

I have found an interesting link: http://www.glassbytes.com/2013/08/pl...unroof-defect/. Not exactly our problem but I do see some similarities.

[hostileharry]

DarcyB:

Do you have any BMW documentation that my local BMW service shop could cross reference? It seems your case is leading the way and my dealer is starting down the path of a fuel sensor. They were very interested in learning more about the PDM failure and they said they have seen a 'few' BMW's in the cold weather have this error.

Thank you,

[darcyb62]

No real documentation outside of passing emails. Have them call the dealership here at 306.525.4269 and talk to Dallas.