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      09-24-2015, 01:24 AM   #23
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http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...missions-tests
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      09-24-2015, 02:54 AM   #24
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Interesting: BMW states that it is only some - the "heavies?" - that use AdBlue - the rest get away without.

Probably they are close to borderline without A, but can have a comforting margin with.

In lorries/trucks AdBlue is a bit of a pain...., but I read somewhere that for BMW it would be enough to refill at service!?

Anyone knows?

Just so you know - petrol engines do not need AdBlue
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      09-24-2015, 05:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle
Interesting: BMW states that it is only some - the "heavies?" - that use AdBlue - the rest get away without.

Probably they are close to borderline without A, but can have a comforting margin with.

In lorries/trucks AdBlue is a bit of a pain...., but I read somewhere that for BMW it would be enough to refill at service!?

Anyone knows?

Just so you know - petrol engines do not need AdBlue
Adblue on my X5 needed a refill every 8000 miles
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      09-24-2015, 06:30 AM   #26
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Looks like BMW could be next for diesel emissions:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...eeded-eu-limit
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      09-24-2015, 07:03 AM   #27
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Another article which highlights the concern of many.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34338775

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      09-24-2015, 07:52 AM   #28
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What we see now regarding BMW is, probably, newspapers using the interest to sell copies.

Time will tell.
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      09-24-2015, 07:53 AM   #29
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Going to use my other car for now whilst BMW check over my X3 for high emissions.

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      09-24-2015, 11:28 AM   #30
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Do the North American X3 2.8d's use the same emission system as the European X3's that are being targeted? My wife's 2015 X3 2.8d does have the urea system.
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      09-24-2015, 11:31 AM   #31
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Now is the time to play ball.

A German car magazine - AUTO BILD - has "tested"- i.e been driving on the road, and mesured a X3 with "bad" result.

Of course BMW has responded with: "we passed the test and we do not have an irregular software"- they are - after all - Germans

That is not the way to plav ball.

Since X5 did pass the road test in the US, and we now know it is because it has the "AdBlue system", the way to do it is to- voluntarily and officially - install AdBlue in all BMW diesels- from now on.

That will not come cheap, but since BMW has lost 10% of stock value today - nothing is cheap.
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      09-24-2015, 12:05 PM   #32
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It's almost guaranteed they all do it, they all know they all do it, and they will all deny until you rub their nose into it -- and reluctantly at that.

They take apart each others cars, so they KNOW -- they must also measure each others emissions, and if none of them suddenly decided to cry foul play, it means they have no interest in doing so.... for obvious reasons.
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      09-24-2015, 12:17 PM   #33
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Gearhead: I did not know there is such a thing as a X3 2.8d! A special Canadian vehicle with a French twist?

Anyhow, if you are on the AdBlue wagon you seem to be allright
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      09-24-2015, 12:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
Gearhead: I did not know there is such a thing as a X3 2.8d! A special Canadian vehicle with a French twist?

Anyhow, if you are on the AdBlue wagon you seem to be allright
North America marketing It is the 2.0L and so far has been a great vehicle for my wife.So Euro ones do not have the AdBlue?
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      09-24-2015, 12:36 PM   #35
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Obviously the UK (cc3) X3 do not have it, so probably all X3 EU-versions do not have it - even those with the steeringwheel on the right side
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      09-24-2015, 03:03 PM   #36
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I'm waiting for the cold call messages on my phone
“Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes Customers – After losing the diesel emission court case all UK major car manufactureres are offering full automatic refunds on all diesel vehicles sold. To get your full refund within 12 weeks press 5 or press 9 to be removed from our database. Start your claim now by pressing 5.”
Agggggghhhhh!!
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      09-24-2015, 05:29 PM   #37
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Shares in German carmaker plunge 9% as reports claim BMW xDrive 20d tops nitrogen oxide limits more than elevenfold.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...ons-volkswagen

http://www.cityam.com/225053/bmw-sha...eeded-eu-limit

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bmw-denies...7.html#nHS09an

Shame that the X3 (2.0d) is built in the USA. It is only the 2.0d that is being cited as the dirty one......so far!

Same engine (2.0d) fitted to the new 5 Series and so on and so forth..in Germany.

Last edited by Peter_R; 09-24-2015 at 05:58 PM..
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      09-25-2015, 12:01 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
A German car magazine - AUTO BILD - has "tested"- i.e been driving on the road, and mesured a X3 with "bad" result.
Actually Autobild did not test it.

Okay, so if Autobild did not test it then what's the basis for their breathless article? They said it was based on a report from the ICCT (International Council on Clean Transportation).

Okay, so I guess that means the ICCT tested it, right? Hmmm... No! BMW pressed the ICCT for clarification and they said they received a single report from a testing company in the UK called Emissions Analytics.

Okay, so I guess that means the guys at Emissions Analytics performed an exhaustive series of scientific tests over various real road conditions to reach their conclusions, right? Hmmm... Not exactly. They performed a single 1-hr drive on an unnamed road under unknown conditions and concluded that the one BMW X3 xDrive 20d they tested put out more NOx than it should have under whatever unknown conditions it was tested. Was it going uphill the entire way?

So, since then Autobild issued a "clarification" that amounts to almost a retraction: "The emission values of a BMW X3 xDrive 20D sent to Auto Bild by the International Council on Clean Transportation had been supplied to ICCT by British test institute Emissions Analytics. ... The values mentioned in the document were only generated in a single one-hour road test. Auto Bild has no access to the details of this test trail which might explain the discrepancies to the test cycle NEDC."

"In light of the VW emission scandal, Auto Bild deems it of utmost importance to emphasize that the communicated emission value of the tested BMW X3 is by no means proof of manipulation or the existence of a defeat device as found in the vehicles of VW."

Follwed by a later additional clarification: "Auto Bild never intended to accuse BMW of manipulating emission levels."

In other words, it was a story that should never have been published in the first place because it's not something that was verified by Auto Bild or the ICCT. It's based on a single one-hour test drive as reported by a British testing firm but apparently no one has bothered to check it out for any further details.

Quote:
Of course BMW has responded with: "we passed the test and we do not have an irregular software"- they are - after all - Germans

That is not the way to plav ball.
BMW issued a statement that its cars comply with the regulations in each of the countries where their cars are sold. They can't comment on this particular test because they haven't seen the data and they don't know anything about the test. They don't manipulate their cars and they didn't install illegal defeat devices like VW has been doing since the 2009 model year. BMW has been playing it smart to be competitive while meeting whatever rules were in place at the time in each of the various countries where their cars are sold. At least I surely hope so but as of now we just have their word on that.

Remember that the original WVU report that came out almost two years ago reported that the X5 xDrive 3L diesel passed and met all of the rules and that the only time they measured any levels a little above normal was when driving uphill. WVU tested real road driving to compare it to dynamometer test results. Both of the 2L VW diesels they tested failed all of the tests.

Quote:
...since BMW has lost 10% of stock value today - nothing is cheap.
Actually what happened is that BMW AG's stock on the DAX did fall by about 10% when this Auto Bild article pre-release was first reported but after word got around that the article was mostly BS, the stock recovered and was down only 1.26% at the close. BMW's ADR in New York originally fell nearly 7% but it close down only 0.56%. So for a few hours there, BMW had dropped several billion euros in market cap before word got around that Auto Bild is not the most reliable source in the world.

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      09-25-2015, 01:49 AM   #39
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Ninong: I can only support what you said! BMW is in the clear.

However, this is not the end of it: emissions will be strictly monitored in the future, and the requirements will be tougher. The best way to handle this is to be in the forefront - not being on the limit - which probably is so with the X3 2.0d, since the X5 version has the better - and more expensive - "AdBlue system".

I believe it would pay-off to introduce - and fully utilize - AdBlue systems on all diesels, even if it is added cost.

In the past the safety lobby has done a very efficient job, which has lead to a situation where "all" manufacturer (except Dacia) have added 100-200 kg of weight and about $500-1000 in cost.

Now the green lobby has open doors - they will enforce requirements that will add - possibly - hundreds of $.

In this kind of situation, it does not pay off to drag your feet - you should be in the forefront.

BMW has started to introduce one of their hybrid systems for the FWD platform. That is the way to go.
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      09-25-2015, 01:59 AM   #40
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Now is the time to BUY Volkswagen and BMW stocks !! They will go up again.
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      09-25-2015, 02:44 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
However, this is not the end of it: emissions will be strictly monitored in the future, and the requirements will be tougher. The best way to handle this is to be in the forefront - not being on the limit - which probably is so with the X3 2.0d, since the X5 version has the better - and more expensive - "AdBlue system".

I believe it would pay-off to introduce - and fully utilize - AdBlue systems on all diesels, even if it is added cost.
The VW scandal has in one way brought into greater focus the disparity between official tests and real world driving. It is a hot potato and there has been a dragging of feet to get the new World Light-vehicle Test Programme (WLTP) implemented.

Looking at the data that had been collected, but cherry picked during this scandal, (like the X3 test result which in context is a part of a common finding acoss the industry), there has to be a harmonising of official figures and driving our cars, for credibility going forward.

If SCR with the AdBlue system is essential to do this, then so be it, even if it is necessary for all diesels, including cheaper city cars. The faster we all get to know what a diesel really needs to include technically, which options are 'cleaner' across their working range, the better for us all.

If this means more costs, to get cleaner air quality, at least it will show what the true costs to run a diesel are. Not some artificial CO2 led decision, which has blurred the truth of how clean or dirty the diesel is. If petrol needs the same critique, lets get it all out in the open and have the knowledge to make better choices.

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Last edited by HighlandPete; 09-25-2015 at 02:51 AM..
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      09-25-2015, 03:42 AM   #42
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Pete: I fully agree! Not because I am necessarily Green, but we need to follow the rules.

I also welcome any investigation regarding my beloved petrol engine
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      09-25-2015, 06:04 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
Pete: I fully agree! Not because I am necessarily Green, but we need to follow the rules.

I also welcome any investigation regarding my beloved petrol engine
I don't believe we have to be Green to know the air we breath is a precious commodity.

I've family member's and friends who have respiratory issues, including asthma. To watch any fellow human gasping for breath, due to getting a lung full of exhaust fumes is not a pleasant experience for anyone involved

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      09-25-2015, 06:22 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
Pete: I fully agree! Not because I am necessarily Green, but we need to follow the rules.

I also welcome any investigation regarding my beloved petrol engine
We also need to be sure the rules work as intended. If the tests bear little relation to real-world driving then the tests will have to change. It's all very well passing tests but the objective is to clean up our environment.

If anything comes out of this fiasco hopefully it will be a sensible testing regime. That said, if this leads to electric cars needing to be charged from mains power....then I hope we don't increase NOx production at power plants. Also the UK is getting marginal on generating capacity.
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