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      01-10-2016, 12:28 PM   #1
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M Sport & DHP

Okay, now I'm seriously confused. From what I'm reading it seems like the DHP and M Sport are separate/exclusive things (ie: one or thee other). We just ordered an x28i with these options; maybe someone can explain (please) what we're getting ? Our salesman is very good in some areas but maybe a bit weak in others.
ZMM M Sport
ZDH dynamic Handling Package
incl 2vl Variable Sport Steering
337 M Sport pkg
Incl 223 Dynamic Damper Control - this is noted as an alternate option but I don't know what it's an alternate to (?)
2TB Sport Auto trans
2VG Performance Control

There are a lot of other options but these are the ones that seem like they would affect driivability/ handling.
We do have the MSport option on our 2013 X1 s drive & love it. Don't know if there was a DHP Option at that time-didn't get it if there was.
Many thanks for any input.
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      01-10-2016, 03:39 PM   #2
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Makes me mad everytime I see threads like this that there are people making money just to stand on a dealership floor and greet customers... I wish we could direct-buy our cars at a discount online. The website is more useful than these pigs
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      01-10-2016, 04:40 PM   #3
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Why blame the salesperson. It is irresponsible to order a car without knowing what you have ordered. The information is there on the BMW website. Read it, understand it, and then order.
Otherwise, you are simply flushing money down the drain.
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      01-10-2016, 05:28 PM   #4
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Remarks about the salesperson are a bit off subject - didn't mean to sound disparaging. This particular salesman explained everything patiently it's just that after reading some of these posts I'm kind of scratchin my head. He worked with us to get our X1 just the way we wanted it & we're happy.
This thread is mainly to gain a better understanding of how some of the systems work together. After what I thought was a thorough perusal of the options I thought I knew but now I'm wondering.
Thank you
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      01-10-2016, 05:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog View Post
Remarks about the salesperson are a bit off subject - didn't mean to sound disparaging. This particular salesman explained everything patiently it's just that after reading some of these posts I'm kind of scratchin my head. He worked with us to get our X1 just the way we wanted it & we're happy.
This thread is mainly to gain a better understanding of how some of the systems work together. After what I thought was a thorough perusal of the options I thought I knew but now I'm wondering.
Thank you
Wrong forum

http://f48.bimmerpost.com/forums/index.php
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      01-10-2016, 06:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphomeman View Post
Why blame the salesperson. It is irresponsible to order a car without knowing what you have ordered. The information is there on the BMW website. Read it, understand it, and then order.
Otherwise, you are simply flushing money down the drain.
+1
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      01-10-2016, 06:50 PM   #7
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I guess this is starting to go off the rails. We just ordered an X3; this will be our second BMW. The X1 we bought in 2013 & love it.
My intention with this thread was to get a better insight about these systems. The website is filled with sales-speak. Many of the members here are well schooled on a lot of these systems & I thought someone (or a few) could clarify. I didn't expect to be on the defensive all of a sudden; it seems like I touched a nerve somewhere.
Sorry about that.
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      01-10-2016, 10:18 PM   #8
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Can't explain exactly why it appears that way on the order sheet, but having a car with those options, it boils down to this, in simple terms:

M-Sport package - mostly cosmetic, with sport seats, special steering wheel, etc. Makes no real performance/drivability changes, at least in the US. Suspension is the same as base.

DHP - Provides dynamic damper control, so when you change from Comfort to Sport, the suspension actually changes. There is also, supposedly, some level of dynamic response by the suspension even within those modes. This package also comes with the variable ratio steering, which some people love, and some don't. I, honestly, don't notice it much. Steering is pretty decent in the X3, in my opinion, but falls a bit short of my previous E90 335i (as expected).

Performance control is software (part of DHP, I think, or maybe just M-Sport?) that biases the xdrive system a bit more to the rear. It should, theoretically, reduce understeer a little. I don't know if it's performance control, but I do think my X3 shows very little tendency to understeer for a small SUV.

On the Sport Automatic, not sure. I know the 35i comes with a slightly more performance-tuned transmission (faster shifts, supposedly?). Perhaps that's now also available on the 28i?

Hopefully this helps. For what it's worth, it IS confusing. Especially that Comfort/Sport thing and that, without DHP it doesn't actually result in ANY changes to the suspension.
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      01-10-2016, 10:35 PM   #9
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Cdog,

I'm a bit behind the curve, as options have changed since I bought my '11. In 2011, M-Sport was purely a cosmetic option, and the fun packages were ZAP (Sports Activity Package, which included 2TB, 2XA, 3AT, AND 3XL) and ZDH (Dynamic Handling Package, which included 2VG and 2VL). Like you, listed separately was 223 Dynamic Damper Control. Somewhere in there was also a "suspension delete" option of some sort, which was on all US-market X3s.

One suggestion that I have is to have your salesrep print out a report of the vehicle as ordered, and double check that the options are correct. The interior trim was wrong on mine, but that was easily corrected.

You have the two DHP options, 2VG (Performance Control), and 2VL (Variable Sport Steering). You also have 2TB, the Sport Automatic Transmission. You also have 223, which wasn't listed under DHP on my build either.

I don't know what is currently in the M-Sport package. Do you have 2XA, Sport Leather Steering Wheel with Paddle Shifters (might be different for M-Sport)?

2VL changes the steering response based on speed.
223 is the DHP shocks, which rapidly respond to road conditions (see the website description)
2TB is the programming for the transmission, which changes shift points, throttle mapping, and gear choices (no 8th gear in Sport or Sport+ unless you manually select it.)

The above three make your X3 a different vehicle when engaged.

I can't speak to 337.
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      01-11-2016, 12:50 AM   #10
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337 is the M Sport package
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      01-11-2016, 10:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02420X3 View Post
Cdog,

I'm a bit behind the curve, as options have changed since I bought my '11. In 2011, M-Sport was purely a cosmetic option, and the fun packages were ZAP (Sports Activity Package, which included 2TB, 2XA, 3AT, AND 3XL) and ZDH (Dynamic Handling Package, which included 2VG and 2VL). Like you, listed separately was 223 Dynamic Damper Control. Somewhere in there was also a "suspension delete" option of some sort, which was on all US-market X3s.

One suggestion that I have is to have your salesrep print out a report of the vehicle as ordered, and double check that the options are correct. The interior trim was wrong on mine, but that was easily corrected.

You have the two DHP options, 2VG (Performance Control), and 2VL (Variable Sport Steering). You also have 2TB, the Sport Automatic Transmission. You also have 223, which wasn't listed under DHP on my build either.

I don't know what is currently in the M-Sport package. Do you have 2XA, Sport Leather Steering Wheel with Paddle Shifters (might be different for M-Sport)?

2VL changes the steering response based on speed.
223 is the DHP shocks, which rapidly respond to road conditions (see the website description)
2TB is the programming for the transmission, which changes shift points, throttle mapping, and gear choices (no 8th gear in Sport or Sport+ unless you manually select it.)

The above three make your X3 a different vehicle when engaged.

I can't speak to 337.
They respond as 'rapidly' as you can manually adjust the firmness setting to preset firmness levels from inside the cabin.

It's already been discussed in detail in the following thread:

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1212086
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      01-11-2016, 01:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02420X3 View Post
Cdog,

I'm a bit behind the curve, as options have changed since I bought my '11. In 2011, M-Sport was purely a cosmetic option, and the fun packages were ZAP (Sports Activity Package, which included 2TB, 2XA, 3AT, AND 3XL) and ZDH (Dynamic Handling Package, which included 2VG and 2VL). Like you, listed separately was 223 Dynamic Damper Control. Somewhere in there was also a "suspension delete" option of some sort, which was on all US-market X3s.

One suggestion that I have is to have your salesrep print out a report of the vehicle as ordered, and double check that the options are correct. The interior trim was wrong on mine, but that was easily corrected.

You have the two DHP options, 2VG (Performance Control), and 2VL (Variable Sport Steering). You also have 2TB, the Sport Automatic Transmission. You also have 223, which wasn't listed under DHP on my build either.

I don't know what is currently in the M-Sport package. Do you have 2XA, Sport Leather Steering Wheel with Paddle Shifters (might be different for M-Sport)?

2VL changes the steering response based on speed.
223 is the DHP shocks, which rapidly respond to road conditions (see the website description)
2TB is the programming for the transmission, which changes shift points, throttle mapping, and gear choices (no 8th gear in Sport or Sport+ unless you manually select it.)

The above three make your X3 a different vehicle when engaged.

I can't speak to 337.
They respond as 'rapidly' as you can manually adjust the firmness setting to preset firmness levels from inside the cabin.

It's already been discussed in detail in the following thread:

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1212086
Still a better set of dampeners. IMHO.
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      01-11-2016, 05:47 PM   #13
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cSurf Crashnbrn5 mge92 and I can tell you, we would NEVER own a BMW w/o Adaptive Suspension (DHP)

That should sum it up for you
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      01-11-2016, 09:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBNYC View Post
cSurf Crashnbrn5 mge92 and I can tell you, we would NEVER own a BMW w/o Adaptive Suspension (DHP)

That should sum it up for you
Speaking of 'owning' and 'sum[s]', I wonder what the sum of the mileage would be among all of you would be.

Has anyone exceeded 70,000 miles on BMWs that they 'own' and is able to comment about replacing their DHP dampers yet?


For the F30, there is a consensus that the OEM BMW M Performance Suspension (static) is superior to the DHP option. If there is a simple static solution that outperforms a more complicated and costly solution, then DHPs are simply not convincing to me.

Last edited by Polo08816; 01-11-2016 at 09:11 PM..
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      01-11-2016, 09:15 PM   #15
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This is what I was hoping for. Thank you for the clarifications; I appreciate it. The car should have a good feel, maybe not as crisp as our X1 MSport & S2000 but close. (I do understand it's a two ton SUV)
Car will be Carbon Black with 662m wheels & Sand/beige over black.
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      01-11-2016, 09:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBNYC View Post
cSurf Crashnbrn5 mge92 and I can tell you, we would NEVER own a BMW w/o Adaptive Suspension (DHP)

That should sum it up for you
Speaking of 'owning' and 'sum[s]', I wonder what the sum of the mileage would be among all of you would be.

Has anyone exceeded 70,000 miles on BMWs that they 'own' and is able to comment about replacing their DHP dampers yet?


For the F30, there is a consensus that the OEM BMW M Performance Suspension (static) is superior to the DHP option. If there is a simple static solution that outperforms a more complicated and costly solution, then DHPs are simply not convincing to me.
Enough with the references to F30 M Performance suspension. It's not a factory option on the F30 and not available or relevant for the X3. We're comparing (what I view as the volume/lease-special) shock/strut combo to DHP.

Even if an M-Performance Suspension were available for the X3, the cost of adding post-sale (based on the F30 comp) would far exceed the cost of optioning DHP (with its many benefits) plus a rainy day fund for the (highly unlikely) dampener failures you fear!i

Also- probably not an accident that DDC is standard on the X4 M40i.
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      01-12-2016, 06:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cSurf View Post
Enough with the references to F30 M Performance suspension. It's not a factory option on the F30 and not available or relevant for the X3. We're comparing (what I view as the volume/lease-special) shock/strut combo to DHP.

Even if an M-Performance Suspension were available for the X3, the cost of adding post-sale (based on the F30 comp) would far exceed the cost of optioning DHP (with its many benefits) plus a rainy day fund for the (highly unlikely) dampener failures you fear!i

Also- probably not an accident that DDC is standard on the X4 M40i.
It's technically a port-install option for the F30, but yes, not by itself relevant to the X3.

The DHP is great. However, it's only great until you have to replace one of them. The part cost alone on the F30 was >$600 per damper, just FYI.

Put it this way:
- If you feel the base suspension is too bumpy/crashy on poor roads, your problem isn't the base suspension because it's very soft. The issue is you probably have 19" or 20" wheels and tires that don't have enough sidewall height + RFT.
- If you feel the base suspension is not dampening enough, that's a valid complaint. Again, it IS too soft. For those who don't want to work on their car, the DHP is pretty much your only option from the factory.

I'm coming at this from the perspective of already owning a F30 335i and having access to lifts, wheel balancers/mounters, Hunter alignment racks, air tools, etc.

My GF and I discussed this option and since we both drive > 25,000 miles on each of our cars, we didn't feel the cost of (replacement) DHP would be worth it. When we replace our shocks, we will probably go with Bilstein HDs.
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      01-12-2016, 07:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Speaking of 'owning' and 'sum[s]', I wonder what the sum of the mileage would be among all of you would be.

Has anyone exceeded 70,000 miles on BMWs that they 'own' and is able to comment about replacing their DHP dampers yet?


For the F30, there is a consensus that the OEM BMW M Performance Suspension (static) is superior to the DHP option. If there is a simple static solution that outperforms a more complicated and costly solution, then DHPs are simply not convincing to me.
I am just about to hit 50,000 miles with the DHP dampers and I own the car and so far it has not given me any major issues and makes a total difference to the car. It is worth it adding it to the car even though it is more complicated and I wouldn't get a BMW without it. What's better than DHP is BMW's new air suspension in the new 7 which is just out of this world the likes of all stock BMW's have never seen before

But with all things it depends what you want to do with the car in terms of mods / activities. If you want to track the car and mod the suspension it makes sense to get static setup. If you want something that works out of the box and you want to keep the suspension stock then go with DHP.
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      01-12-2016, 08:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816
Quote:
Originally Posted by cSurf View Post
Enough with the references to F30 M Performance suspension. It's not a factory option on the F30 and not available or relevant for the X3. We're comparing (what I view as the volume/lease-special) shock/strut combo to DHP.

Even if an M-Performance Suspension were available for the X3, the cost of adding post-sale (based on the F30 comp) would far exceed the cost of optioning DHP (with its many benefits) plus a rainy day fund for the (highly unlikely) dampener failures you fear!i

Also- probably not an accident that DDC is standard on the X4 M40i.
It's technically a port-install option for the F30, but yes, not by itself relevant to the X3.

The DHP is great. However, it's only great until you have to replace one of them. The part cost alone on the F30 was >$600 per damper, just FYI.

Put it this way:
- If you feel the base suspension is too bumpy/crashy on poor roads, your problem isn't the base suspension because it's very soft. The issue is you probably have 19" or 20" wheels and tires that don't have enough sidewall height + RFT.
- If you feel the base suspension is not dampening enough, that's a valid complaint. Again, it IS too soft. For those who don't want to work on their car, the DHP is pretty much your only option from the factory.

I'm coming at this from the perspective of already owning a F30 335i and having access to lifts, wheel balancers/mounters, Hunter alignment racks, air tools, etc.

My GF and I discussed this option and since we both drive > 25,000 miles on each of our cars, we didn't feel the cost of (replacement) DHP would be worth it. When we replace our shocks, we will probably go with Bilstein HDs.
All very reasonable. Would note (for those unfamiliar with what 'port installed means') that whether it's port installed or dealer installed- you're still buying two suspensions.

When do you take delivery of your X3? Would be interested in your take on PCD.
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      01-12-2016, 10:04 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cSurf View Post
All very reasonable. Would note (for those unfamiliar with what 'port installed means') that whether it's port installed or dealer installed- you're still buying two suspensions.

When do you take delivery of your X3? Would be interested in your take on PCD.
+1. My greatest concern with port-installed options is that you're essentially buying a new suspension kit and you're throwing the old one away before you take delivery. Unfortunately, you're not paying the price delta between those two suspensions. That's part of the reason why I lean towards only "modding" wear and tear items when they are worn out. It doesn't seem like a good financial decision to throw away parts that are in good working order.

We're flying out tomorrow morning at 8am .

Should be taking delivery Thursday morning.
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      01-19-2016, 06:52 PM   #21
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Lots of good input; thank you. I have a few questions maybe someone can answer:
The rear wheel bias that's mentioned for the DHP - is it always configured that way or only when you select the sport mode ?
Same for the sport automatic - does the mapping change to the sport settings (when sport is selected) or is it a permanent re-map ?
Are the ratios the same in the sport automatic ?
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      01-20-2016, 01:41 AM   #22
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I have read nowhere - nor felt any difference - in FW/RW bias with Sport/ Sport+.

Mapping of gearbox changes when in Sport/Sport+ - so does throttle respons.

My reading of Sport vs Sport+ is "slackened" ESP i.e. the aggressive interference from ESP will go away and you can have fun driving on snow/ice!

Dynamic Damper Control has its own life - stiff activated in Sport/Sport+
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