[dreamspeed]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I'm pretty much down to just the X3. My next hurdle is do I keep the 135i or trade it in. It's paid for and I have the garage space, but I don't drive it often (something like 22,000 miles in 6 years, 3 of those years were before I got married or had a baby). I'm seeing that in the future it may be even less often as the toddler becomes a full fledged kid, and I bike to work a little more often to help keep in shape. At this point it's what I'm wrestling with and have to figure out.

Either way though, I have however found 2 X3'sin the Minneapolis area of great interest and have contacted a dealership about one of them. All of the help here saved me a lot of confusion and helped convince me that the X3 which I really wanted was actually the "best" choice

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Either way though, I have however found 2 X3'sin the Minneapolis area of great interest and have contacted a dealership about one of them. All of the help here saved me a lot of confusion and helped convince me that the X3 which I really wanted was actually the "best" choice

DHP is rare but I don't think it's THAT rare. You have a better chance of finding that option on xdrive 35s with MSPORT. Pretty much the top of the line specd cars. Personally I think it's a great option. In normal mode it's around the same as the standard suspension. Comfort is softer than standard and sport is stiffer. When you put it in sport mode the car definitely handles a lot better.

I spent about 3 months to find the exact options I wanted. Space gray Msport x35 with tech pk, LED lights, DHP, and surround view camera.

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

DHP is rare but I don't think it's THAT rare. You have a better chance of finding that option on xdrive 35s with MSPORT. Pretty much the top of the line specd cars. Personally I think it's a great option. In normal mode it's around the same as the standard suspension. Comfort is softer than standard and sport is stiffer. When you put it in sport mode the car definitely handles a lot better.

I spent about 3 months to find the exact options I wanted. Space gray Msport x35 with tech pk, LED lights, DHP, and surround view camera.

You are fortunate that the BMW market in the LA area offers a large selection of new vehicles many of which subsequently feed the local used car market. There are more than 20 BMW dealers in the LA area. There are 3 BMW dealers within 50 miles of the OPs St. Paul location. One may always hold out for exactly the used car you want, but it may be a longer wait to find a DHP equipped F25 X3 in Minnesota than LA.

[dreamspeed]

@MichiganMike

Yes if you are restricting your search to a specific area then it will be hard to find. I actually searched nationwide and almost pulled the trigger on a car in Cape Cod.

Luckily I ended up finding a match in Sacramento.

It's actually a very fun experience flying to another state to buy a car and then doing a road trip back home.

[tracer bullet]

I think there's just 2 dealers in town, Minnetonka and Motorwerks, but I'm not in a huge rush so that may be OK. Thankfully they have good online inventory info and I can play them against each other. I've contacted both already.

I planned to fly to pick up and drive home my 135i but the process took so long and the holiday weekend disappeared I ended up shipping it. I will consider that here but I'm not sure it'll be worth the extra work for the DHP (it totally was to find a 6-speed 135i though). A quick price scan across the nation on CPO X3's seems to show the local dealers on the lower end of those prices so I'm off to a lucky start. (and I'm not limiting myself to CPO's, it's just a slight preference since I no longer have the time I used to for farting around with my cars and fixing small things).

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

@MichiganMike

Yes if you are restricting your search to a specific area then it will be hard to find. I actually searched nationwide and almost pulled the trigger on a car in Cape Cod.

Luckily I ended up finding a match in Sacramento.

It's actually a very fun experience flying to another state to buy a car and then doing a road trip back home.

It appears we agree that some travel may be necessary to find a used DHP equipped X3 with other desirable options and color. I stated in post #16, "You are free to insist on a rare unicorn of a vehicle with DHP, but you should be prepared to travel some distance to find one and possibly compromise on colors and other options."

I have looked at hundreds of listings for F25 X3 vehicles when I was in the market and found only 3 with DHP.

[Aspen235]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Regarding the stereo, it looks like the Hi-Fi includes under-seat subs? I am guessing it's the same system then that the 1-Series came with. In that case an audio upgrade should indeed be easy. For the 1-ers you needed the HK system to get those subs, they could be retrofitted, but at great pain. I didn't spec it in mind but am glad I have it, I got a sub and amp for the trunk from MusicarNW and it really finished things off. If the X3 Hi-Fi includes those 8"s under the seat already then it's an easy upgrade this summer - hopefully they are 8" or at least can easily become that.

Yes the HIFI stereo has the subs under the seats and they can be upgraded. The HIFI stereo has acceptable quality for me. I may upgrade at some point.

If you find an X3 35i with DHP and no HK stereo I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker. In Canada, HK was standard on 35i from 2015 and it seems most M Sport cars also had DHP, USDM is likely different. The real deal breaker should be whether it has a heated steering wheel.

[tracer bullet]

There are 2 X3’s I'm considering, probably will decide this afternoon (not sure how many will see this). Both are optioned identically (let’s just say they are loaded - Nav, rear camera, M-sport, etc.).

2015 with 14,000 miles – $35,900 (located in Chicago, Delta has $128 flights, fly and drive)
2016 with 39,000 miles – $34,500 (in town here in Minneapolis)

2015 shows on KBB being worth about $1,500 more at the moment, so the differential above is about right
Both are CPO – Certified Pre-Owned supposedly meaning they are like new
2016 would have an extra year of warranty…
2015 would possibly be worth a little more in 10 years for resale, the age delta would be more than made up for by the lower miles at that point

Any thoughts on how to choose? Coin flip?

[MichiganMike]

I am skeptical that the 2015 would be worth more than the 2016 in 10 years. Let's say you drive 10K miles per year. Both cars would be over 100K miles in 10 years. Mileage difference between the two will not be a big deal at that point.

Consumer Reports reliability for 2015 X3 is worse than 4 out of 5 points in three areas, fuel system (3 out of 5), power equipment (1 out of 5) and in car electronics (2 out of 5). Reliability of 2016 X3 is reported below 4 in only one category, body integrity is 3 out of 5. So you might expect statistically reliability may be slightly better for the 2016 X3, even if it has higher miles.

Note that a 2016 car averaging about 15K miles per year may have more highway miles, which generally put less wear and tear on the car per mile than short city trips. A 2015 X3 driving on average 3.5K miles per year may have mostly short trip miles that are generally harder on a car. So the mileage difference again may be less significant than it might appear on first impression.

Have you compared the Carfax for each X3 to get insight into the maintenance record for each vehicle?

The 2016 is in your area and has an extra year of warranty. The local dealer where you buy and service, may give you more future leverage for warranty claims and other benefits. Will the Minneapolis dealer provide a loaner car during service if you buy the car there but not if you bring in one for service purchased elsewhere? This is the loaner policy of my dealer. Some dealers are happy to service cars purchased elsewhere, but may be less inclined to provide a loaner or to take your side with BMW in event of a warranty dispute.

[tracer bullet]

Great questions!

Well, for starters, there are no 2016's around here. Looks I managed to discover that the dealer goofed and had to have them update their web information. Argh.

There are 2 2015's here (black / black), another turned up this week, and the 2015 in Chicago (alpine white / brown int) is still in contention. All are CPO, all have similar rather fully loaded feature sets. No differences there.

Mileages are 40k and 31k here, 14k for the Chicago car. Great point on the method of use, wish I could find that info - age of the original owner, etc. I have a feeling all are lease returns, all are 1 owners. As for me, I am also a low mileage driver, I'm about 8 miles from work and have to pay attention and be sure my car does indeed fully warm up at least a couple times a week. Wish I could see the oil cap before they did the CPO checkup and oil change, see if it was milky. All told since I bike some, I'm maybe 6000 - 7000 miles a year. My 2011 135i only has 27,000 miles on it. I guess this is why the mileage difference could be a small factor. 140k vs 114k isn't much difference really, but 70k vs 44k might be. Might. It's a stretch I agree.

Maintenance and repairs on the vehicles are all very similar. Nothing jumped out there. Would have been an instant deal breaker.

Local dealership has always allowed me a loaner if they needed the car for a while, i.e. for one of the recalls, never asked about me buying the car private party from Philadelphia. I would hope for the same but yes this is a great point. Might be different this time around.

Looks like I really have time to decide, the deals I've been given all stand, they're done going lower for me. Both local cars are right at the bottom end of the KBB suggested range for these cars with the mileage, model year, options, etc. typed in, which is quite good. The Chicago car is about an additional $1500 below that, which is even better.

2015 Local 1 - 40k miles, $34,500
2015 Local 2 - 31k miles, $35,400
2015 Chicago - 14k miles, $35,900

Definitely a better deal in Chicago. The work to go get it and the chance that the local dealers aren't as happy with me starts to put it back in balance again.

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Great questions!

Great point on the method of use, wish I could find that info - age of the original owner, etc. I have a feeling all are lease returns, all are 1 owners.

Maintenance and repairs on the vehicles are all very similar. Nothing jumped out there. Would have been an instant deal breaker.

Dealers may have more detailed maintenance information available as explained in the link below. You might press the dealers to let you view service details for the cars of interest to assist your deliberations.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=980347

I tried to find the cars you may be considering to see if I might gain any insight.
One X3 I found (VIN 0K34897) had a curious listing on April 15, 2016 at 12,526 miles, which makes me wonder if there may have been damage to a tire possibly due to a pothole. It may be worth a closer look.
04/15/2016 12,526 Auto Works Diagnostic
Maintenance inspection completed
Tire condition and pressure checked
Tire(s) replaced
Wheels checked
Tire(s) balanced

[tracer bullet]

Oh, wow, thanks for the additional look-up help. Wasn't trying to make anyone do any work!

0K34897 is indeed one of the local ones https://www.motorwerksbmw.com/detail...-17208808.html

Makes me wonder if they sent me the right repair history record for their car, it's a scan but it doesn't show the VIN. I see entries at 8,917 and 17,786 but not 12,XXX.

The other local car is 0K34042 https://www.bmwofminnetonka.com/used...0e1aa4aab7.htm

The Chicago car is 0K32258 https://perillobmw.com/Used-BMW-Inve...CESEuZ6OG3_niQ

I'll look into this more. Currently I have a friend / coworker driving to Chicago tomorrow morning to see his family and offering me a ride. I'm hoping to have this all sorted out today, it won't be easy. I guess the upside is I can't go too wrong with any of the choices.

Edit: MichiganMike - Do you work at a dealership? How were you able to find this? I'm planning to stop at the local dealership with 0K34897 and see if they won't come down a little more and keep me local. It would be interesting to know if they sent me the wrong history.

[MichiganMike]

Tracer Bullet,

I do not work at a dealership. I found the posted information on the tire service on the CarFax report accessible on the dealer's webpage for this X3. The tire service listed on CarFax was not at a BMW dealer, which may be why it does not show up on the BMW scan.

You might ask for a copy of the CPO Vehicle Inspection Report for the X3, if you have not received it.
BMWCPO_2013_InsChkUpdt_v2.pdf

Sometimes a dealer will be more willing to provide some accessories at cost or gratis or a future service, rather than further discount price for a vehicle. For example, if you want all weather mats, a cargo mat or other accessories not included, you might ask these be included at the agreed price.

FWIW, Minnetonka BMW has a 4.4 rating (419 reviews) on Google Reviews and 4.9 on DealerRater (98% recommended of 600+ reviews).
https://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/B...-review-30865/
Perillo BMW has a 3.7 rating (170 reviews) on Google Reviews and 3.0 on DealerRater (40% recommended of 170+ reviews).
https://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/P...W-review-7418/

[MichiganMike]

Tracer Bullet,

Private message sent for your consideration.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

FWIW, Minnetonka BMW has a 4.4 rating (419 reviews) on Google Reviews and 4.9 on DealerRater (98% recommended of 600+ reviews).
https://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/B...-review-30865/
Perillo BMW has a 3.7 rating (170 reviews) on Google Reviews and 3.0 on DealerRater (40% recommended of 170+ reviews).
https://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/P...W-review-7418/

Yikes. The other local has a pretty awesome rating as well. Perillo not so much. You expect any dealership to get the occasional bad review but that's atrocious. I may have just saved myself a trip to Chicago. I was a little nervous planning to buy a car that I hadn't actually driven, but was trusting a CPO to be fine especially if I knew there was still some warranty left. I am really reconsidering that now.

I've got a few years under my belt and like to think I'm pretty wise tot he world, but hadn't looked up the reviews on the dealerships. Should have done that earlier.

Fore the unknownth time, thank you!

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I was a little nervous planning to buy a car that I hadn't actually driven, but was trusting a CPO to be fine especially if I knew there was still some warranty left. I am really reconsidering that now.

I've got a few years under my belt and like to think I'm pretty wise tot he world, but hadn't looked up the reviews on the dealerships. Should have done that earlier.

Fore the unknownth time, thank you!

You are welcome. I have one more thought.

JD Powers reports, "Run-flat tires (like those on the X3) wear-out about 6,000 miles earlier than conventional tires (which have an average tread life of 22,559 miles)."

If the X3 at Perillo has the original tires, these tires may need to be replaced within a year at a cost of perhaps $1500. The remaining tire tread life is something you should consider in comparing CPO X3 vehicles.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

You are welcome. I have one more thought.

JD Powers reports, "Run-flat tires (like those on the X3) wear-out about 6,000 miles earlier than conventional tires (which have an average tread life of 22,559 miles)."

If the X3 at Perillo has the original tires, these tires may need to be replaced within a year at a cost of perhaps $1500. The remaining tire tread life is something you should consider in comparing CPO X3 vehicles.

Great note, thanks. I think I would have had this in mind already but it's a good reminder.

I actually prefer 2 sets of wheels / tires and i change them over myself every 6 months. Well, I do for my 135i, and my fun cars before that, the Saturn just has some good all-seasons on it. Not sure which way I'll go w/ an X3 but I'd predict eventually it won't have run-flats on it. It'd be good leverage at a dealer (well, the local ones which I can walk away from).

Planning to see the local 0K34897, 31k miles, X3 this afternoon. If they can lower the price a bit more or throw in some good freebies I may just take it. It's the dealership I normally go to right now and they've always been pretty good to me. This is the car that had some sort of wheel issue already and so I'll definitely have to have it in mind!

Carfax also tells me it's been for sale for about 2 months now too

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Great note, thanks. I think I would have had this in mind already but it's a good reminder.

I actually prefer 2 sets of wheels / tires and i change them over myself every 6 months. Well, I do for my 135i, and my fun cars before that, the Saturn just has some good all-seasons on it. Not sure which way I'll go w/ an X3 but I'd predict eventually it won't have run-flats on it. It'd be good leverage at a dealer (well, the local ones which I can walk away from).

Planning to see the local 0K34897, 31k miles, X3 this afternoon. If they can lower the price a bit more or throw in some good freebies I may just take it. It's the dealership I normally go to right now and they've always been pretty good to me. This is the car that had some sort of wheel issue already and so I'll definitely have to have it in mind!

Carfax also tells me it's been for sale for about 2 months now too

Thanks for the additional background on your plans and priorities.

It is toward the end of the winter season. Perhaps you can get your dealer to give you a very good price on winter wheels and tires to seal the transaction.

[dreamspeed]

Do you have a preference on color combinations? I mean one car is black and one is white.

I guess everyone's experience is different but personally I've found it irrelevant when it comes to whether or not I purchase a carat the same place I have it serviced. I've purchased cars out of state and has it services locally and I've leased cars at one local dealership and returned it at another. I've never even had that topic come up when I bring the car in service. My experience is that the dealership could care less whether or not I bought the car from them.

I found an out of town CPO car that I asked the dealer to hold for me until I could make it out there the following week and what was at first a pleasant interaction quickly turned into a somewhat unsavory purchase. The sales rep gave me some bullshit about not being able to hold the car unless I actually fill out all the PURCHASE paperwork which he would hold and not process until I got there. And which he would reverse/destroy if I got there and decided I didn't want the car. I was able to get those terms in writing but I was still somewhat uncomfortable with the agreement since it heavily favored the dealership.

It was the exact combo I wanted and it was CPO so I agreed to it and when I got there and saw the car it was pretty much as described except for some damage to one of the wheels which he gave me another 200 bucks off for.

CPO played a big part in my decision since it meant that any actual issues would be covered by BMW. I was also able to get the CPO inspection report prior to my visit. HOWEVER, I discovered a worn wheel bearing during my drive back home in the car... which I promptly had fixed at my local dealer. So much for their fancy CPO inspections and repairs...

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

I guess everyone's experience is different but personally I've found it irrelevant when it comes to whether or not I purchase a carat the same place I have it serviced. I've purchased cars out of state and has it services locally and I've leased cars at one local dealership and returned it at another. I've never even had that topic come up when I bring the car in service. My experience is that the dealership could care less whether or not I bought the car from them.

My experience is different than yours. For example, my BMW dealer offers free loaners during routine service for four years if you purchased from the dealer, but no loaner if you merely service your car there.

The client advisor that sold me my two X3s has been an advocate for me on getting some items addressed at no cost to me that arguably were not covered under the warranty. His advocacy has been valuable and motivates some loyalty in my future purchases.

In my opinion, the quality of the CPO is dependent on the dealer and some due diligence of the dealer as well as the vehicle is prudent before purchase. Below is a comment from DealerRater regarding a negative experience with the CPO process at one BMW dealer:

"The key takeaway is to understand that [dealer name deleted] does not sell CPO vehicles, they sell used cars with issues and (in my opinion) do so illegitimately by adding the BMW CPO designation as vehicles sold as such are supposed to be trouble free. I tried reaching out to the salesman I had worked with. His position was that 'I must have run over something to have caused the transmission leak' and 'I must have hit some curbs and caused the damage to each of the 4 wheels'. I am not making this up... I also tried to contact BMW customer relations, who more or less said I was at the mercy of the dealership. The CPO designation as I have learned is nothing more than an extended warranty by the manufacturer and dealerships are not held to any standards when designating vehicles as CPO..."

YMMV.

[Riick]

I have a 2013 M-Sport with standard suspension coming from a E90..

It's no race car but it's no slouch. If you were to drop some H&R's in there with some good non-runflat tires and a JB4 it will put a smile on anyone's face.

[tracer bullet]

I drove the car last night, the local one that has 31k miles. I knew I'd get anything on the Chicago care taken care of, but ended up preferring to buy one I could actually get my hands on. And the final price will be under the low end of the blue-book value much like the Chicago car was, making them quite competitive again.

The good: I love the X3. After driving a few other cars (i.e. CX-5) and knowing they were pretty decent and I didn't hate them, the X3 was incredible. I knew I'd like it but was happy to confirm it (nope, I hadn't driven one until last night). I felt at home right away in it. I got a 2hr drive in it and brought it home so I could be on familiar roads and let my wife see it as well. Trunk was good, dimensions were perfect, etc. And you guys know how they drive already, it's really like a good sedan just a foot higher up. Amazing.

More good: They knocked the price down a touch more, and I get a free set of summer tires with it. They put brand-new run flats on it and are including the summer tires that were already on it (I haven't seen them, but worst case I sell them for a few bucks). Gives me some options w/ regards to wheel setup(s). I'll figure that out later.

The bad: The HVAC blower motor sounded a little like chirping crickets once in a while. Of course it didn't do it w/ the sales rep in the car but if nothing else it's recorded in the notes to be checked out. The brake pedal has a slight, fast pulsation in it but nothing in the steering wheel. Not sure if it's an electronic nanny getting in play or an actual issue. Sales rep drove the car and felt it, it's to be looked into as well. Lastly the plastic bar between the 2 moonroof sections squeaked like crazy. He also heard that and it'll get looked at. I think things will be fine but I did spot this stuff.

More bad: After I got home my wife informed me that her consulting job wasn't going to be in the black anytime soon and she had serious concerns about buying anything. It was an interesting (meaning crappy) discussion, with me being completely shocked after we'd been talking about buying something for a month now, bringing some home to be checked out, etc. But I get her concern though, and it's just a car. Thinking all night about it, I've decided to sell the 135i I love it, but feel that I don't drive it often enough, or as it's intended, to keep it. I have a short drive to work and back, occasional errands, and drive it up to 2-3 times a week and that's it - even less if it's snowy and salty, or if it's nice and I bike to work. Selling it, plus what I have in checking, will cover the cost of the X3 outright. Doing what I want, if it meant no car payments, was a good compromise.

I'll be sad to let the 135i go, I feel like I have in the past breaking up with a girlfriend. Honestly though the X3 was fun enough I can handle it as a daily driver and have it make me smile. And after the kiddo grows up who knows what fun stuff will be out there that it'll be time to get into. It's not an end to the love of cars or ownership of a fun one, it's definitely a delay but I think I have something pretty good until then.

So, I'm planning to pick it up today or tomorrow, depending on our schedule and also when they clean & detail it again and get the stuff mentioned above checked out. Bittersweet might be the right word.

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Lastly the plastic bar between the 2 moonroof sections squeaked like crazy. He also heard that and it'll get looked at. I think things will be fine but I did spot this stuff.

This thread on a creaking moonroof and potential fixes may be of interest.

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showth...hlight=sunroof