[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

Since you know the answer then you can answer it right?
And if you don't I pointed you to the right place on who can answer it for you.

How can a F30 328 have a better suspension than a 340 ?
The C450 has the AMG Suspension right from the C63 (For Sportier and better handling) do you think the air-suspension in the C400 or C300 is better?
Is what I'm trying to say here.

I know the answer to "what's superior"? - it depends on the view point.

You answered to a person that clearly stated he preferred the suspension on the C300 due to its comfort. Stating that a hard suspension is superior is wrong. I don't know if the C450 suspension is harsher than the C300 as I've never ridden in either. This is why I asked you. Then you pointed me to a forum...

What's "superior", a Toyota Sienna or a Ferrari F430?

PS: The suspension on the 328 is the same as in the 340.
PS2: saying that a suspension is "superior" because it was inherited from an AMG car is not very useful: AMG cars are known to be extremely harsh, and not necessarily the best handlers (so perhaps harsher than an M3, but still not as good handling? Worst of both worlds?)

Cheers.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by I'm wrong

I know the answer to "what's superior"? - it depends on the view point.

You answered to a person that clearly stated he preferred the suspension on the C300 due to its comfort. Stating that a hard suspension is superior is wrong. I don't know if the C450 suspension is harsher than the C300 as I've never ridden in either. This is why I asked you. Then you pointed me to a forum...

What's "superior", a Toyota Sienna or a Ferrari F430?

PS: The suspension on the 328 is the same as in the 340.
PS2: saying that a suspension is "superior" because it was inherited from an AMG car is not very useful: AMG cars are known to be extremely harsh, and not necessarily the best handlers (so perhaps harsher than an M3, but still not as good handling? Worst of both worlds?)

Cheers.

C450 AMG suspension has best of both world so its great that you learned something new today. It has the comfort of the C-class and the sportiness when needed of the Adaptive Suspension.

I test-drove 3 different C450 from different places and roads and tested each setting. When I jumped into the GLA 45 AMG thats when it felt like sportier/firmer suspension not exactly harsh like you may think.

Go test-drive and do research before you give misinformation.

The suspension on the 328 and 340 are not same!

Not sure what car you drive but comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

C450 AMG suspension has best of both world so its great that you learned something new today. It has the comfort of the C-class and the sportiness when needed of the Adaptive Suspension.

I test-drove 3 different C450 from different places and roads and tested each setting. When I jumped into the GLA 45 AMG thats when it felt like sportier/firmer suspension not exactly harsh like you may think.

Go test-drive and do research before you give misinformation.

The suspension on the 328 and 340 are not same!

Not sure what car you drive but comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari

You just proved my points.

Cheers!

[atrueb]

I thought this thread was "x3 vs q5".... LoL

[Bob in IL]

Originally Posted by atrueb

I thought this thread was "x3 vs q5".... LoL

I think it used to be....

[gIzzE]

I just don't understand why 'I'm wrong' feels the need to pick an argument with people in every thread??

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

I just don't understand why 'I'm wrong' feels the need to pick an argument with people in every thread??

Indeed, he's on to a mission joined in Dec 2015 and already 400+ post of useless comments.

[jeromium]

Hello good people! Noob here that's been looking at the X3 and Audi Q5 for a while. Thinking of upgrading from my current Subaru into something slightly larger, with better technology and comfort. Found this thread and figured I'd hop on instead of starting something new. I'm still doing research and taking part in discussions is of course part of that.

I feel like trying to decide between these two particular vehicles is one of the hardest car-buying decisions I've ever made. Is it because they're high-end and offer so much, they kind of offer the same thing? With styling and experience being the subjective differentiators?

I like the X3 and I like the Q5 for different reasons. Seems there are a lot of pros regarding the X3 posted in here, but not so much for the Q5 (this is of course a BMW-biased forum) - and also not a lot of cons for the X3. So I'd like to share some of my observations so far and perhaps get some feedback.

iDrive vs MMS - What really got me thinking about upgrading was driving an i3 and 3-series through the ReachNow car sharing service. I LOVE the puck/dial interaction as opposed to a touchscreen. Audi has the MMS but the dial is pretty small in the current Q5 and I've heard the iDrive system is much better in general.

Sport seats - As a 6' 4" guy, I like the additional thigh support provided by the sport seats that come with the Msport package. Problem is, I don't love the Msport's appearance and would be happy with the base trim or X-line as they are more rugged and a better fit for my lifestyle. But I can't have sport seats without the Msport package. In a Q5, I can have the sport seats without having it paired with any appearance package. Big pro for Q5 here.

Appearance - I like the look of both vehicles a lot. Even though the Q5 is about 9 years old with lighting being the only exterior/visual updates in that timeframe, I still find it very handsome/sexy. The X3 is newer and I like the angular look. Though it's more busy in general, they both look great to me.

Stance - Here's where my big visual problem is with the X3. The wheel wells are smaller than the Q5s and therefore the X3's tires are thinner, making the whole wheel/tire package look a bit dinky - whether it's on 19s or 20s. It's not the wheel wells I take issue with, it's their effect on the thinness of tires. The Q5 by comparison has meatier tires on 19s and 20s, an even on 21s it looks good. The X3's wheels also feel tucked in a bit more than they should be, especially with the Msport package. So stance is an issue for me - The X3 appears top-heavy as a result, while the Q5 looks really well grounded. And as much as I like to think about aftermarket wheels, it's not going to happen.

Performance & Driving Experience - I've test-driven an X3 28i and a 2.0T in the Q5, but haven't tried the 6 cylinder in either vehicle. I'd be perfectly happy with either of the 4 cylinder options compared to what I have now, but still want to try the 6 cylinders as MPG variance isn't huge. The Q5 only offers auto start/stop in the 6 cylinder, so that's one advantage besides power. Aside from engine choices, I thought they both drove well but I could stand to drive both again closer together to see which one feels better. That's going to be subjective anyway.

Pricing & Finance Options - They're roughly equivalent, although I'm finding the X3 to be a little higher optioned out the way I want for some reason. There are also fewer available in the color combination I want vs. the Q5, that might contribute to perceived price difference. BMW does seem to have the better lease plans vs. Audi, but I haven't chatted with Audi about it yet. I'd be looking at a 3 year/10K mile lease. With the current Q5 being replaced within the next month, deals can be had - while the current X3 will be around for another year so getting a good discount might not be as likely.

---------

That's where I'm at right now. I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger (do I really need to upgrade? Do I really want higher monthly payments?), and with the new Q5 just around the corner I MIGHT hold off and give that a test drive before deciding on the outgoing model, but cost would be higher and it might mean ordering to spec and waiting.

I really think the stance and lack of sport seats without Msport package are the two major factors steering me toward the Q5 right now.


Here are two of the vehicles I'm considering, giving you an example of the tire thickness/stance concern I'm talking about. The X3 needs a meatier tire.

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by jeromium

Hello good people! Noob here that's been looking at the X3 and Audi Q5 for a while. Thinking of upgrading from my current Subaru into something slightly larger, with better technology and comfort. Found this thread and figured I'd hop on instead of starting something new. I'm still doing research and taking part in discussions is of course part of that.

I feel like trying to decide between these two particular vehicles is one of the hardest car-buying decisions I've ever made. Is it because they're high-end and offer so much, they kind of offer the same thing? With styling and experience being the subjective differentiators?

I like the X3 and I like the Q5 for different reasons. Seems there are a lot of pros regarding the X3 posted in here, but not so much for the Q5 (this is of course a BMW-biased forum) - and also not a lot of cons for the X3. So I'd like to share some of my observations so far and perhaps get some feedback. ...

Welcome to the X3 forum, jeromium.

As you indicate, reasons for purchasing a car can be quite personal and subjective, so prudent research as you are doing and ample test drives with different engines and packages can hone in on the most important variables for you.

I'm not sure of your timeline as to when you wish to purchase - can this decision wait for a year? Also, not sure how important the price point is for you? Both of these come into play with the G01 coming out later this year. No doubt you can get better deals buying the end run 2nd gen model over the G01.

Personally, I admit to being biased in favor of our X3s and it seems the G01 may very well set the bar for this SAV/SUV market segment if what we're reading is successfully developed in the production vehicles. So we are holding on to our 2012 X3 even though it is past warranty to eventually trade in for the G01 M40i.

Best wishes on your decision.

[Alfisti]

We started out looking for a Q5, the wife, as per most white women, loves the thing. In the end Audi's preposterous optioning got the better of us as we could not find what we wanted, parking camera in particular is very hard to find. We stumbled across the X3 which had everything we wanted plus the perfect colour combo (dark blue on beige interior).

Wife would still prefer the Audi but here is my honest to god feeling having driven both side by side across both the 2T and 6cyl engines;

- The Audi feels more nimble and lighter, easier to chuck about
- Audi's looked awesome 5 years ago but are looking a bit tired now
- X3 shape has aged well
- Audi auto trans SHITS all over BMW's harsh and slow AT, such a difference it is not funny
- Audi interior looks a million times better
- BMW ergonomics are better, particularly iDrive over MMS
- S-Line Audi withthe 2T felt more alive than the 35i we have
- Audi is a touch smaller which really hurts it
- Audi adjustable settings are awesome. The BMW just offers SPORT-COMFORT-SOFT and none of the three really work, Sport holds gears too long and COMFORT is too sloppy. Not to mention the suspension is not affected. AUDI's customisation in the S-Line is awesome, in SPORT and medium suspension settings the car feels very alive
- Audi is more refined, beemer makes a lot of noise and not a lot of power until you wring it's neck

That's my 2c anyway.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by jeromium

Stance - Here's where my big visual problem is with the X3. The wheel wells are smaller than the Q5s and therefore the X3's tires are thinner, making the whole wheel/tire package look a bit dinky - whether it's on 19s or 20s. It's not the wheel wells I take issue with, it's their effect on the thinness of tires. The Q5 by comparison has meatier tires on 19s and 20s, an even on 21s it looks good. The X3's wheels also feel tucked in a bit more than they should be, especially with the Msport package. So stance is an issue for me - The X3 appears top-heavy as a result, while the Q5 looks really well grounded. And as much as I like to think about aftermarket wheels, it's not going to happen.

THis.

Our 35i has 18's and 245/50's and really needs 245/55's or 19's.

Agree on the seats too, Audi's S-Line is an excellent package but the car does look a bit femmo.

[FSociety]

jeromium I would take the X3 35i any day and this is a good looker!

[Crassus]

Originally Posted by jeromium

Hello good people! Noob here that's been looking at the X3 and Audi Q5 for a while. Thinking of upgrading from my current Subaru into something slightly larger, with better technology and comfort. Found this thread and figured I'd hop on instead of starting something new. I'm still doing research and taking part in discussions is of course part of that.

I feel like trying to decide between these two particular vehicles is one of the hardest car-buying decisions I've ever made. Is it because they're high-end and offer so much, they kind of offer the same thing? With styling and experience being the subjective differentiators?

I like the X3 and I like the Q5 for different reasons. Seems there are a lot of pros regarding the X3 posted in here, but not so much for the Q5 (this is of course a BMW-biased forum) - and also not a lot of cons for the X3. So I'd like to share some of my observations so far and perhaps get some feedback.

iDrive vs MMS - What really got me thinking about upgrading was driving an i3 and 3-series through the ReachNow car sharing service. I LOVE the puck/dial interaction as opposed to a touchscreen. Audi has the MMS but the dial is pretty small in the current Q5 and I've heard the iDrive system is much better in general.

Sport seats - As a 6' 4" guy, I like the additional thigh support provided by the sport seats that come with the Msport package. Problem is, I don't love the Msport's appearance and would be happy with the base trim or X-line as they are more rugged and a better fit for my lifestyle. But I can't have sport seats without the Msport package. In a Q5, I can have the sport seats without having it paired with any appearance package. Big pro for Q5 here.

Appearance - I like the look of both vehicles a lot. Even though the Q5 is about 9 years old with lighting being the only exterior/visual updates in that timeframe, I still find it very handsome/sexy. The X3 is newer and I like the angular look. Though it's more busy in general, they both look great to me.

Stance - Here's where my big visual problem is with the X3. The wheel wells are smaller than the Q5s and therefore the X3's tires are thinner, making the whole wheel/tire package look a bit dinky - whether it's on 19s or 20s. It's not the wheel wells I take issue with, it's their effect on the thinness of tires. The Q5 by comparison has meatier tires on 19s and 20s, an even on 21s it looks good. The X3's wheels also feel tucked in a bit more than they should be, especially with the Msport package. So stance is an issue for me - The X3 appears top-heavy as a result, while the Q5 looks really well grounded. And as much as I like to think about aftermarket wheels, it's not going to happen.

Performance & Driving Experience - I've test-driven an X3 28i and a 2.0T in the Q5, but haven't tried the 6 cylinder in either vehicle. I'd be perfectly happy with either of the 4 cylinder options compared to what I have now, but still want to try the 6 cylinders as MPG variance isn't huge. The Q5 only offers auto start/stop in the 6 cylinder, so that's one advantage besides power. Aside from engine choices, I thought they both drove well but I could stand to drive both again closer together to see which one feels better. That's going to be subjective anyway.

Pricing & Finance Options - They're roughly equivalent, although I'm finding the X3 to be a little higher optioned out the way I want for some reason. There are also fewer available in the color combination I want vs. the Q5, that might contribute to perceived price difference. BMW does seem to have the better lease plans vs. Audi, but I haven't chatted with Audi about it yet. I'd be looking at a 3 year/10K mile lease. With the current Q5 being replaced within the next month, deals can be had - while the current X3 will be around for another year so getting a good discount might not be as likely.

---------

That's where I'm at right now. I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger (do I really need to upgrade? Do I really want higher monthly payments?), and with the new Q5 just around the corner I MIGHT hold off and give that a test drive before deciding on the outgoing model, but cost would be higher and it might mean ordering to spec and waiting.

I really think the stance and lack of sport seats without Msport package are the two major factors steering me toward the Q5 right now.


Here are two of the vehicles I'm considering, giving you an example of the tire thickness/stance concern I'm talking about. The X3 needs a meatier tire.

You should have a look at the new Audi Q5. It has a smoking high quality interior and even has air suspension as an option.

[Tjalle]

The answer might be XC60! There has been a lot of spy pictures in Swedish press, and now an official front! It has e.g. T8 dual engine - rear electric- of total 415 bhp.

Keep an eye on Geneva Auto Salon March 7.

[Crassus]

Originally Posted by Tjalle

The answer might be XC60! There has been a lot of spy pictures in Swedish press, and now an official front! It has e.g. T8 dual engine - rear electric- of total 415 bhp.

Keep an eye on Geneva Auto Salon March 7.

The downside of the T8 is that it's noisy at high speeds and. It's a rather unrefined hybrid compared with that of BMW. However, it might perform better in the XC60 compared with the heavy XC90 where it's overworked. The hybrid is mainly good if trips are short and in start and stop traffic, nif not, a 6 cylinder offers better performance and refinement.

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

..... The BMW just offers SPORT-COMFORT-SOFT and none of the three really work, Sport holds gears too long and COMFORT is too sloppy. Not to mention the suspension is not affected .....

If the X3 does not have the Dynamic Dampers option (or whatever its called these days), then the Comfort/Sport/Sport+ settings will not affect the suspension.

The only way to affect the suspension is if the X3 has the Dynamic Dampers option, an extra cost option not included in M Sport.

Bruce

[jeromium]

Originally Posted by Tjalle

The answer might be XC60! There has been a lot of spy pictures in Swedish press, and now an official front! It has e.g. T8 dual engine - rear electric- of total 415 bhp.

Keep an eye on Geneva Auto Salon March 7.

I've been keeping an eye on this as well - I'm sure I will love the styling, but really dislike the move to large touch-screen without any other controls. As mentioned, I love the iDrive and MMI controls from the center console. The current XC60 is lacking in that interface department as well so as much as I like it for other reasons, it's not going to work for me.

[jeromium]

Thanks all for the great feedback in the last few days. I have been swamped with work and have been continuing to research the X3 and Q5, and haven't taken the time to reply. So let's do that now!

Originally Posted by Max Well

Welcome to the X3 forum, jeromium.

As you indicate, reasons for purchasing a car can be quite personal and subjective, so prudent research as you are doing and ample test drives with different engines and packages can hone in on the most important variables for you.

I'm not sure of your timeline as to when you wish to purchase - can this decision wait for a year? Also, not sure how important the price point is for you? Both of these come into play with the G01 coming out later this year. No doubt you can get better deals buying the end run 2nd gen model over the G01.

Personally, I admit to being biased in favor of our X3s and it seems the G01 may very well set the bar for this SAV/SUV market segment if what we're reading is successfully developed in the production vehicles. So we are holding on to our 2012 X3 even though it is past warranty to eventually trade in for the G01 M40i.

Best wishes on your decision.

I've been anxiously awaiting the G01 and was disappointed to learn it won't hit our shores until next year. I don't have a fixed timeline, I've just been dreaming of an upgrade for over a year and great deals are available on outgoing Q5s right now. Also when I get obsessed about something it's hard to step away. My girlfriend is doing a decent job of turning me away from the idea of an upgrade though. Which is good and annoying. If she succeeds in keeping me from buying something in the next 6 months, then the G01 will definitely be on the table.

Originally Posted by Alfisti

We started out looking for a Q5, the wife, as per most white women, loves the thing. In the end Audi's preposterous optioning got the better of us as we could not find what we wanted, parking camera in particular is very hard to find. We stumbled across the X3 which had everything we wanted plus the perfect colour combo (dark blue on beige interior).

Wife would still prefer the Audi but here is my honest to god feeling having driven both side by side across both the 2T and 6cyl engines;

- The Audi feels more nimble and lighter, easier to chuck about
- Audi's looked awesome 5 years ago but are looking a bit tired now
- X3 shape has aged well
- Audi auto trans SHITS all over BMW's harsh and slow AT, such a difference it is not funny
- Audi interior looks a million times better
- BMW ergonomics are better, particularly iDrive over MMS
- S-Line Audi withthe 2T felt more alive than the 35i we have
- Audi is a touch smaller which really hurts it
- Audi adjustable settings are awesome. The BMW just offers SPORT-COMFORT-SOFT and none of the three really work, Sport holds gears too long and COMFORT is too sloppy. Not to mention the suspension is not affected. AUDI's customisation in the S-Line is awesome, in SPORT and medium suspension settings the car feels very alive
- Audi is more refined, beemer makes a lot of noise and not a lot of power until you wring it's neck

That's my 2c anyway.

Thanks for the honest feedback. I had a chance over the weekend to drive both a 3.0T and a 35i, as I'd previously only driven the 4 cylinder from each vehicle. Maybe I shouldn't have, because now I feel the need for 6 cylinders! The 3.0T was especially fun - I drove one equipped with the S Line Competition Plus package which includes the smaller, flat bottom steering wheel and damn was that fun. I then drove the 35i and didn't find it as fun for some reason - I just couldn't pinpoint why. And it did feel noisier, less smooth. But you're right that the X3's styling is newer and while I do still like the style of the Q5, I wonder how that might change in the next 3 years when the new model becomes commonplace.

One other big factor to note as I've spent more time with both cars over the weekend is that I felt more comfortable in the Q5. Food space was wider with a larger dead pedal, and I felt the seat in the X3 (M sport seats) were more shallow than those in the Q5 (also sport seats) - even with the leg extender out in both. I noticed myself readjusting my seating position a few times to scoot my but back in order to gain more thigh support. For reference, I'm 6'4" and 230lbs. The Q5 was just a better fit. I like the adjustable side bolstering in the X3 which is something the Q5 doesn't offer - so at the torso I felt more snug which was great for cornering. The Q5 seats didn't keep me in place as much, but were just a better fit overall.

The X3 does have a larger and taller trunk (good for the dog), but driver space and comfort was lacking for me.

Originally Posted by FSociety

jeromium I would take the X3 35i any day and this is a good looker!

I do love this color combo and this is one of the best sale listing pictures I've come across, for sure.

Originally Posted by Crassus

You should have a look at the new Audi Q5. It has a smoking high quality interior and even has air suspension as an option.

The new Q5 certainly interests me - especially the new tech and interior - but part of the appeal right now is the deals available on outgoing models. And I'd rather wait a year or two on a new model anyway. I guess I could/should say the same about the G01.

[oVeRdOsE.]

1+ year bump. But I found this thread very interresting, since I was shoping for a Q5 sline 3.0T since january 18'.

I've tried 2 Q5, make 2 offers, and Ive ended up with a clean x3 35i m sport.

Overall Audi is a overall better product imho, but way more expensive for same year, same mileage.
8 to 10k$ more easy.

- 3.0T q5 fully equiped are harder to find than 35i m sports.

- 3.0t supercharged engine is a beast; a 600-900$ flash and you got 415hp on 93 octane. This engine is bulletproof.

- Interior wise is better, more luxurious.

At the end, I choose the BMW because is was way cheaper for a ''equivalent'' product, and planning to make 5000km/year max (2nd car)

oh, and audi dont offer nice int colors

[najnad]

Interesting, I hadn't realized the sline was that rare an option. But I guess its a matter of the combination of both the 3.0T and sline which makes it rare.

I think the reason is that most people who would have bought a Q5 3.0T sline ended up getting the SQ5 instead. It was about $10k difference when new...and there are lots of those out there.

[oVeRdOsE.]

Originally Posted by najnad

Interesting, I hadn't realized the sline was that rare an option. But I guess its a matter of the combination of both the 3.0T and sline which makes it rare.

I think the reason is that most people who would have bought a Q5 3.0T sline ended up getting the SQ5 instead. It was about $10k difference when new...and there are lots of those out there.

yeah, s-line + 3.0t is very rare. At my location I saw 2 on used market in the past 4 months. I was looking over 5 websites.

right ! Brand new, the difference was minimal, I believe around 8-10K on a 65k car CAD.

The used market isnt the same in us and canada. From what people reported me, there's not much price difference on a q5 over a sq5 on used marked.
In canada, its about 50% more. around 28-32k Q5, and 38-44k$ for a sq5.
(2014-2015).

At the end, this machine is very interresting with a tune, almost crazy