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      10-27-2015, 09:58 AM   #23
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I have the Conti Viking Contact 6 on my X4, 18". Works extremely well on packed or loose snow. Coming from studded tires, these non-studded tires exceeded my expectations.

IMO, the biggest difference are on bare ice. With studded tires, you can hear when the tires looses grip, with non-studded you hear nothing...
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      10-27-2015, 11:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
Results from two Swedish and one Finnish magazine for 2015/16 are out. They test about 10 different criteria. Note: manufactured during 2015.

Non-studded:
-Conti Viking Contact 6
-Hakkapeliita R2
-Pirelli Ice Zero FR
-Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice 2
-Michelin X-ice X13

Studded:
-Hakkapeliita 8
-Continental Ice Contact 2
-Pirelli Ice Zero

That is just about the same result as last year, so if tire manufactured during 2014, you could buy that if discount.
Wonder why they did not test the Bridgestone BLIZZAK WS80? In TireRack's test, when they put it head to head with the Michelin X-ice XI3, it came out ahead, and I believe I read a similar result in another review of them. That is why I got the Bridgestones.

Plus, as a bonus, the Bridgestones come with 12/32" tread depth, whereas the Michelins are a regular 10.5/32", so you'll get more mileage out of the Bridgestones.

Oh, and they're cheaper too!
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      10-27-2015, 02:31 PM   #25
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I just listed the best tires.

I would be a bit weary of trusting a tire sales company to do a fair evaluation.

The tests I refer to are performed at an indepedent test center in Ivalo in Finland, with indoor as well as outdoor facilities with ice, snow, and dry/wet asphalt. Every magazine defines its own criteria and perform its own tests. Obviously the tire manufacturers supplies the tires.
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      10-27-2015, 02:43 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus99
As an aside, for those of us who run two sets of tires a year, I'm just wondering when my current all seasons are due for replacement, why not get summers instead? all seasons are a compromise tire, and since I'm using winters anyway, why not use tires that were designed for the season that I would be driving them in?

Thoughts?
Makes sense, in fact, you can option summer tires from the factory (P-Zeros for most of the F25s I've seen) with 19s. You get a staggered set up too (8.5" x 9.5"). Surprised more purple don't do it.

I run a set of 8.5" OZ Supertourismos with Dunlop SP4 winters.
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      10-27-2015, 03:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalle View Post
I just listed the best tires.

I would be a bit weary of trusting a tire sales company to do a fair evaluation.

The tests I refer to are performed at an indepedent test center in Ivalo in Finland, with indoor as well as outdoor facilities with ice, snow, and dry/wet asphalt. Every magazine defines its own criteria and perform its own tests. Obviously the tire manufacturers supplies the tires.
Yes possibly, though they are large enough and well respected that I'm going to not put a lot of weight in a conspiracy theory. Have you read their review before speculating though? There's lots of hard numbers in it, so it's not like it's an empty review without stats...

Where possible, I tried to read multiple reviews, to see if the findings are consistent.

Your point however still doesn't address the shortcoming of the test you quoted, in that one of the top-selling winter tires has been strangely left out of the comparison... That smells more fishy to me than a test where at least both are tested! LOL.

Can you point me to a review where both tires have been tested?
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      10-28-2015, 02:10 AM   #28
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Lotus: as I said: the tires I mentioned are not all in tests - only the top dogs. The results are from a compilation of results from three tests, in a Swedish Daily.

I bought wintertires last year -studded Continental Conti Ice Contact - so I am not prepared to buy all three magazines to get full reports.

I have test from Teknikens Värld of last year, where Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 is included. Which it, of course, also is this year-only latest version.

Verdict 2014: no 5 out of 7 tested. Very good on ice and snow, bad on wet asphalt. Wet asphalt is a very common situation in Europe during winter. Partly because of extensive use of salt. Not so in northern Sweden - nor Canada?

Regardless of how big TireRack is, I prefer independent tests. Also results from several tests- they never come out the same

I have seen a consistent pattern during last years: top dogs are: Continental, Hakkapeliita, Michelin, Pirelli and Good Year. One of the runner-ups is Bridgestone.
I believe all top dogs are testing in Finland, where there is a fantastic test site - I don`t know about Bridgestone.
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      10-28-2015, 02:09 PM   #29
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I can't imagine you would go wrong with either of the top brands, though there will be subtle differences I am sure. Here are the results of them tested against each other, where Blizzak came out on top each time. And the last two reviews are independent.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=191

http://www.wheels.ca/car-reviews/pre...-blizzak-ws80/

http://www.apa.ca/wintertire_reviews.asp
.

Last edited by Lotus99; 10-28-2015 at 03:22 PM..
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      10-28-2015, 03:48 PM   #30
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Lotus: sorry but I could not open third row.

1. Only subjectiv evaluation made on Bridgestone facility on ice and snow. "Our" tests confirm WS70/80 are good on ice/snow.

2 Also subjectiv evaluation made on Bridgestone facility. Independent journalist who`s trip was paid for by B - so it says

As an old test engineeer, I don`t buy, what could be partial/doctored evaluations.

I looked at your earlier documented tests - I presume by TireRack- which seem to be with an aim at being serious. There is only one problem - they don`t have brake performance included. The European tests include braking on ice, snow, wet and dry asphalt.

I believe that your WS80 is a very good tire, but at the same time I have serious tests indicating there are - all in all - better tires on the market - which is what I wrote.
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      10-28-2015, 05:37 PM   #31
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Odd the third link doesn't work. I tried it now, and it's fine. Perhaps try again? I updated the link at one point, so maybe that's exactly when you clicked it.

It is an independent organization called Automobile Protection Association. They rated the WS80 and the Nokian R2 as the top winter tires, and describe their reasons also. The XI3 was in the next category down.
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      10-29-2015, 03:41 AM   #32
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Still don`t work. Interference? The Russkies?

I propose we call it a day - we are both happy with our opinions.
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      10-29-2015, 01:13 PM   #33
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=) Odd...

Here's the detailed reviews on the tires in the top two categories, if you're curious:

Top Rated
Bridgestone Blizzak WS 80

Bridgestone introduced the Blizzak line in the 1990s, the first tire to feature a special rubber compound that dramatically improved performance on ice. The WS 80 is the sixth generation of the Blizzak concept. Directional tire, optimized for snow and ice; compared to the WS 70 which this tire supercedes, the tread is a bit shallower and less aggressive, and provides improved braking on ice and better dry road performance. The WS 80 likely still offers better traction in slush than the Michelin X-Ice. Soft riding. Very good overall performance and predictability; a good choice for severe conditions. Bridgestone reduced prices in Canada last year, and they are now slightly lower than Michelin. $70 mail-in rebate when you buy four tires.

Nokian Hakkapelitta R2

This tire superceded the old Hakka R, Nokian's version of a non-studdable ice tire like the Blizzak WS 80. The ice braking champion in European tire tests. Confident braking. Sharper handling on pavement than the Hakka 8, reflected in the higher R speed rating; a good alternative for drivers of rear-wheel-drive sporty vehicles looking for a good balance of severe weather performance and decent handling on pavement. A factory road hazard warranty is included; it carries an administration fee when you make a claim. Some sizes available as runflat tires. Expensive, with a limited distribution network.

(The Hakkappelitta 8 accounts for a larger percentage of Nokian sales in Eastern Canada. Top tire for deep snow and poor winter weather, coupled with good ice traction. Tire noise is lower than the Hakkapeliitta 7 it replaced, which was noisy. Long wearing. Tire rotation is a must to ensure even wear. Expensive, about 25 percent higher than Toyo or Bridgestone, but it comes standard with a road hazard warranty; the warranty carries an administration charge and has limitations. Available with factory-installed studs and studdable by the retailer. Negatives are a high price, limited distribution network, and some sizes run out early.)


Very Good
Continental WinterContact SI

This tire replaces the ExtremeWinterContact and offered superior grip in cornering and braking. It runs a bit more quietly than the ExtremeWinterContact. The tread design is now directional, which limits tire rotation options if they are wearing unevenly. The tread design of the new tire sticks more on ice and bites more in snow. Tire life may be lower, as the tread depth is down to just 10/32" when new. Offered in 33 tire sizes to fit most passenger cars and SUVs. Widely available. $65 Prepaid Mastercard gift card when you buy four tires.

Continental's old ExtremeWinterContact may still be available at clearance prices. Optimized for ice and effective in snow, it was a favourite in testing conducted by Tire Rack, the big U.S. retailer, because of its superior handling and balanced all-around performance. Excellent value at the clearance price, if you can find it.

Gislaved Nord*Frost 100

Gislaved is a division of Continental Tire; this tire replaced the old Nord*Frost 5. Very good in snow, good on ice. The tread design is similar to the General Altimax Arctic; performance on dry pavement is a little more responsive than the Altimax Arctic. Can become noisy as it wears. A good choice for buyers looking for a tire available with European-style diamond-shaped factory studs.

Michelin X-Ice Xi3

Among Consumer Reports’ preferred tires in testing because of its superior performance on wet and dry roads, and ride comfort. Optimized for ice and snow, this tire was among the favorites with tire dealers and experts surveyed. Some consumers using the previous version of this tire reported that traction in slush was unimpressive, and that the shallow, conservative tread limits its traction in deep snow. Best-in-class performance on pavement. Quiet. Long wearing. Tricky mileage warranty requires the tires to be virtual banana peels before you can collect.

Pirelli Ice Zero FR

New for this winter, the Pirelli Ice Zero FR (friction) provided superior snow traction and good steering control. Symmetric tread design with features in treadblocks that improve ice traction; this is the best general purpose passenger vehicle winter tire from Pirelli in years. The Ice Zero Studded is a different tire, available with factory studs. Made in Russia, well-priced. Pirelli was acquired by a Chinese conglomerate. Widely available.

Toyo Observe GSi5

Tire optimized for deep snow and ice. One of the better choices even though it is not a distinguished performer on cleared or wet roads and can be noisier than average in some applications. APA's recommended tire retailers have a lot of experience with this tire and received good feedback. Superior durability due to the deep tread and long-wearing rubber compound. Well-suited for heavy vehicles. Superior rating from Consumer Reports on ice and snow, but ranked low overall because it performed below average on wet and dry pavement. Mail-in rebate of $70 when you buy four tires.

Good
Dunlop WinterMaxx

General Altimax Arctic

Hercules Avalanche R-G2

Nokian Nordman 5

Pirelli Carving Edge

Vredestein SnowTrac 5

Yokohama Ice Guard IG51c
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      10-30-2015, 06:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I understand that, but the reason it is not expected to be run at a temp of less than 41F is because the rubber isn't warm enough.

If the rubber is warm enough, then you're good to go. I've used the blow torch method when I needed it in a pinch. If I am not in a rush, I usually put 4 space heaters next to the tires overnight and I've had no trouble with rain, snow, or ice for the past 2 winters using that method.
You cant be serious.. ?

Even if you used a BLOW TORCH on your tires (I'm still in disbelief) and even if you heated your tires up with spacer heaters over night.. how long do you think they hold any type of heat once you drive away in 0 degree winter conditions ? 30 seconds before your summer tires turn to hockey pucks in the cold.. ?
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      10-30-2015, 06:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05Mdriver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I understand that, but the reason it is not expected to be run at a temp of less than 41F is because the rubber isn't warm enough.

If the rubber is warm enough, then you're good to go. I've used the blow torch method when I needed it in a pinch. If I am not in a rush, I usually put 4 space heaters next to the tires overnight and I've had no trouble with rain, snow, or ice for the past 2 winters using that method.
You cant be serious.. ?

Even if you used a BLOW TORCH on your tires (I'm still in disbelief) and even if you heated your tires up with spacer heaters over night.. how long do you think they hold any type of heat once you drive away in 0 degree winter conditions ? 30 seconds before your summer tires turn to hockey pucks in the cold.. ?
Agree- if roads are snow covered, then they're at or below freezing. Your tires will not hold or generate enough to overcome.

You'd need to drive around with space heaters in your wheel wells for this approach to work....
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      11-02-2015, 10:53 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus99 View Post
Wonder why they did not test the Bridgestone BLIZZAK WS80? In TireRack's test, when they put it head to head with the Michelin X-ice XI3, it came out ahead, and I believe I read a similar result in another review of them. That is why I got the Bridgestones.

Plus, as a bonus, the Bridgestones come with 12/32" tread depth, whereas the Michelins are a regular 10.5/32", so you'll get more mileage out of the Bridgestones.

Oh, and they're cheaper too!
Actually, the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 comes out ahead.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=193

The WS80 are slightly better than the X-Ice Xi3 in deep snow and ice, but they are not that far off.

The X-Ice Xi3 is the one of the only H-speed rated studless winter tire. Also, it's low rolling resistance which means it's better for fuel economy. As for mileage, Bridgestone offers no warranty for treadwear. Michelin has a 40,000 mile treadwear warranty on the X-Ice Xi3.

The bottom line is the Michelin is close in the deep snow and ice, but it is WAY ahead on dry pavement handling.
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      11-02-2015, 10:57 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05Mdriver View Post
You cant be serious.. ?

Even if you used a BLOW TORCH on your tires (I'm still in disbelief) and even if you heated your tires up with spacer heaters over night.. how long do you think they hold any type of heat once you drive away in 0 degree winter conditions ? 30 seconds before your summer tires turn to hockey pucks in the cold.. ?
That's why I carry a portable blow torch in my trunk in the winter. When I feel the tires losing traction, I can instantly heat all of them backup. It's far easier than using chains.

Or...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cSurf View Post
Agree- if roads are snow covered, then they're at or below freezing. Your tires will not hold or generate enough to overcome.

You'd need to drive around with space heaters in your wheel wells for this approach to work....
It works if you don't drive like a pussy. If you go wide open throttle as much as you can, you'll be able to hold heat in your tires.
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      11-02-2015, 11:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
It works if you don't drive like a pussy. If you go wide open throttle as much as you can, you'll be able to hold heat in your tires.
Nothing better then going wide open throttle on summer tires in the dead of winter.

Post your zip code so i can tell my friends and family to stay well away from the area !
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      11-02-2015, 12:09 PM   #39
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He's just trolling. On the other thread he's recommending using box cutters to rethread the tires.
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      11-02-2015, 12:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Actually, the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 comes out ahead.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=193

The WS80 are slightly better than the X-Ice Xi3 in deep snow and ice, but they are not that far off.

The X-Ice Xi3 is the one of the only H-speed rated studless winter tire. Also, it's low rolling resistance which means it's better for fuel economy. As for mileage, Bridgestone offers no warranty for treadwear. Michelin has a 40,000 mile treadwear warranty on the X-Ice Xi3.

The bottom line is the Michelin is close in the deep snow and ice, but it is WAY ahead on dry pavement handling.
Hang on... Getting 7.05 on the dry and wet results vs. 6.93 is WAY ahead in your opinion?

If that's the case, then by that standard, the snow handling of the Michelin is dismal compared to the WS80 seeing there's a 0.35 difference...

For me, for a snow tire that's almost equal in dry and wet conditions, but is significantly better in snow, I'll take that. The tires they tested are all crowded around the 6.6 mark for snow, whereas the WS80 is rated 7. 0.35 is a large difference statistically in that tight a ranking. When they describe the tire as "setting a new standard", that seals it for me.

I don't know how the mileage guarantee will work in practice, but seeing that the WS80 come with an extra 2/32" almost in tire tread for the same price / less, that gives me any extra mileage that I might be worried about.

I'm sure no one will go wrong buying either tire.
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      11-22-2015, 10:48 AM   #41
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Fitted Pirelli Sottozero240 245/45/19 and 275/40/19 and pleased with how quiet they are. Wet grip is good just waiting for some snow now.
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      11-22-2015, 08:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus99 View Post
Hang on... Getting 7.05 on the dry and wet results vs. 6.93 is WAY ahead in your opinion?

If that's the case, then by that standard, the snow handling of the Michelin is dismal compared to the WS80 seeing there's a 0.35 difference...

For me, for a snow tire that's almost equal in dry and wet conditions, but is significantly better in snow, I'll take that. The tires they tested are all crowded around the 6.6 mark for snow, whereas the WS80 is rated 7. 0.35 is a large difference statistically in that tight a ranking. When they describe the tire as "setting a new standard", that seals it for me.

I don't know how the mileage guarantee will work in practice, but seeing that the WS80 come with an extra 2/32" almost in tire tread for the same price / less, that gives me any extra mileage that I might be worried about.

I'm sure no one will go wrong buying either tire.
.
Those numerical ratings are subjective as stated in the text.

But it doesn't tell us anything we did not expect. The WS80 is better for deep snow and ice. The X-Ice Xi3 is better for dry and wet handling.

What value you place on each determines which one suits your use

I typically drive anywhere between Maryland and New Jersey. Highway dry/wet performance is more important since we probably don't get the same snowfall you have in Canada. However, my 335i is RWD and my daily driver so I wasn't convinced that a performance winter tire would suffice.

I wouldn't place too much stock in how deep the tread is in determining how long a tire might last. It works if you assume that the compounds are the same but that's clearly not the case. There's a reason why Michelin offers a pretty substantial treadwear mileage warranty and Bridgestone doesn't.
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      11-27-2015, 08:32 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Those numerical ratings are subjective as stated in the text.

But it doesn't tell us anything we did not expect. The WS80 is better for deep snow and ice. The X-Ice Xi3 is better for dry and wet handling.

What value you place on each determines which one suits your use

I typically drive anywhere between Maryland and New Jersey. Highway dry/wet performance is more important since we probably don't get the same snowfall you have in Canada. However, my 335i is RWD and my daily driver so I wasn't convinced that a performance winter tire would suffice.

I wouldn't place too much stock in how deep the tread is in determining how long a tire might last. It works if you assume that the compounds are the same but that's clearly not the case. There's a reason why Michelin offers a pretty substantial treadwear mileage warranty and Bridgestone doesn't.
Nokian Hakka R2 is worth a look. Tire Rack doesn't stock, so they don't review... but Consumer Reports, Road and Track and most European publications rate it #1.
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      11-29-2015, 06:16 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cSurf View Post
Nokian Hakka R2 is worth a look. Tire Rack doesn't stock, so they don't review... but Consumer Reports, Road and Track and most European publications rate it #1.
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/blog...nter-tire-test

Quote:
In its November 2015 issue, Consumer Reports (CR) did more than reveal the results of its all-season tire testing, which I reported on in my Oct. 1 blog. It also rated 21 winter tires.

There was a tie for No. 1: the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 was listed at the top, but had the same score as the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2.
Sounds like the Nokian is pretty good. My only concern would be the top speed rating of 106mph (R?). I drive mostly highway miles so my preference went to the Michelin X-Ice Xi3.
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