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      07-30-2016, 06:02 PM   #1
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2013 X3 N20 Engine Replaced - P0171 Error Code - HELP!

Hello,
I have a 2013 X3 with N20 engine. I was a victim of the dreaded timing chain tensioner breaking and ruining the engine. The car has 83000 miles, so BMW said piss off on helping with replacement. Dealer cost to replace was $19500. I decided to purchase a used engine and found one with only 5k miles on it.
The engine is installed and is running wonderfully. EXCEPT, it is throwing a P0171 error code. I am very familiar with the OBD2 codes and with coding BMWs. The cause of the error is usually a vacuum leak.
I have smoke tested the engine and did find 2 leaks that have since been fixed. NO LEAKS on the last smoke test. I have been looking at the STFT and LTFT during idle, acceleration and at speed. They are below

Idle

STFT - varies between -10 and +5
LTFT - about 22

Acceleration
STFT - +7 - +15
LTFT - 24 or more

At Speed (around 35mph)
STFT - 0
LTFT - 25-29

Assuming there are no vacuum leaks, what else should I be looking for? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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      08-01-2016, 09:20 PM   #2
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P0171 Diagnosis

Ok, so since it looks like no one knows how to diagnose this, here is what I learned:
1. The p0171 is a fuel mixture too lean. This means that the various sensors in the car intake and exhaust systems is reading a fuel mixture that is less than the ideal 14.7:1 ratio.
2. The fuel mixture is automatically adjusted by the ECU.
3. There are 2 types of adjustments (called trims), the short term and long term. The STFT is an immediate adjustment to get the mixture back to 14.7:1. The LTFT samples the STFT and makes a long term change to the trim to maintain the 14.7:1 ratio.
4. If the LTFT is greater than 20%, a Bmw will throw a MIL.

Causes of P0171
1. The p0171 code is usually caused by 2 things, Vacuum Leak and Fuel Starvation

Diagnosis

By using the LTFT, STFT and the Engine Speed, you get an idea of which cause you should look at.
You will need an OBD tool that will allow you to read data in real time.
Hook up the tool and set it up to display STFT, LTFT and Engine Speed

Record the LTFT at idle, this will be your baseline
Next, rev the engine and record whether the LTFT goes up or down
Hold the engine speed at about 1500 rpm and record the LTFT

Findings

If your LTFT increases as the rpms increase, you have a fuel starvation issue
If your LTFT decreases as the rpms increase, you have a vacuum leak

In my case, I had an increase, then a decrease. In this case, i had both vacuum and fuel issues. I fixed the vacuum issues first (they are cheaper and easier). Now, I am working the fuel starvation. Fuel filter is first on the list.
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      08-02-2016, 12:17 AM   #3
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Sorry to hear that you had to pay yourself for the new engine . I think BMW should have helped you somehow, after all the car is only 3 years old.
This seems to be a very common problem with BMW engines, especially the Diesel engines. You can look at any forum here in Europe, and people complain about it. (but in EU BMW sells few petrol engines, thats maybe why the problems occur with the diesels here).
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      08-02-2016, 03:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endre2 View Post
Sorry to hear that you had to pay yourself for the new engine . I think BMW should have helped you somehow, after all the car is only 3 years old.
This seems to be a very common problem with BMW engines, especially the Diesel engines. You can look at any forum here in Europe, and people complain about it. (but in EU BMW sells few petrol engines, thats maybe why the problems occur with the diesels here).
Yeah, that did it for me with BMW. I have owned 5 and will never buy another. This X3 is my last, and I will sell it pretty soon. The N20 engine has a systemic problem with this. BMW won the class action, so they are not helping. That's ok though. They had the opportunity to have a customer for life. They lose in the end. We turned in our Z4 instead of purchasing it like we planned.
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      08-03-2016, 01:29 PM   #5
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gresh, if you do not mind a few more questions:
1. did your N20 that failed, have plastic oil filter housing?
2. Was sludge found in the engine that cause the failure?
3. Did you hear/experience any symptoms of failure coming?

Thanks
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      08-04-2016, 10:16 AM   #6
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I didn't know the N20 had such serious issues
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      08-04-2016, 06:41 PM   #7
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My 2013 X3 N20 engine with 38,00 miles had several issues including sludge in the engine and multiple Vanos failures.

1st problem: turbo oil leak causing excess smoke upon startup. Oil line replaced under warranty.

2nd problem: failure of replacement oil line which was a fix for problem #1 causing an oil leak and engine fire. Fire damage replaced under warranty.

3rd problem: drivetrain malfunction with multiple Vanos failures caused by sludge in engine. Engine replaced under warranty.

I loved my 2007 X3 with 167,000 miles. The 2013 X3 handles much better but I am not sure it will last 100,000 miles.

Best of luck

George
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      08-04-2016, 09:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed View Post
gresh, if you do not mind a few more questions:
1. did your N20 that failed, have plastic oil filter housing?
2. Was sludge found in the engine that cause the failure?
3. Did you hear/experience any symptoms of failure coming?

Thanks
It has a plastic oil filter cap, but not housing.
The BMW diagnosis said sludge was found. I think that's crap. They did all of the services, so if there was sludge, that's on them.
The car had a very intermittent drivetrain malfunction, which in retrospect, could have been the timing chain getting far enough out of tension that it caused the cam sensors to trigger. It started at about 50k miles, but really only lasted a few seconds and it probably only happened a few times.

Hope that helps
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      08-04-2016, 09:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gbm4th View Post
My 2013 X3 N20 engine with 38,00 miles had several issues including sludge in the engine and multiple Vanos failures.

1st problem: turbo oil leak causing excess smoke upon startup. Oil line replaced under warranty.

2nd problem: failure of replacement oil line which was a fix for problem #1 causing an oil leak and engine fire. Fire damage replaced under warranty.

3rd problem: drivetrain malfunction with multiple Vanos failures caused by sludge in engine. Engine replaced under warranty.

I loved my 2007 X3 with 167,000 miles. The 2013 X3 handles much better but I am not sure it will last 100,000 miles.

Best of luck

George
Yeah, the N20 is in a lot a different BMWs. The oil line became a problem as well that I didn't mention because it was fixed, but I had that problem as well.
The vanos failures are pretty common to a few BMW engines, not just the n20. Good oil with frequent changes along with getting the turbo oil line recall done should postpone the vanos errors. It did for me.
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      08-04-2016, 09:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X4guy View Post
I didn't know the N20 had such serious issues
Yeah, do the research on it. The n20 is a BMW cash cow because after about 50k miles, the problems start and they seldom pay for it when it's out of warranty.
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      08-04-2016, 11:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gresh View Post
Yeah, do the research on it. The n20 is a BMW cash cow because after about 50k miles, the problems start and they seldom pay for it when it's out of warranty.
I did most of the issues are N20 pre YOM 2014. I don't see anything post 2014 manufactured engines or did I miss something?
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      08-05-2016, 09:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X4guy View Post
I did most of the issues are N20 pre YOM 2014. I don't see anything post 2014 manufactured engines or did I miss something?
So in 2014, BMW did replace the plastic POS timing chain track and tensioner with a different one, but they didn't go out and refit already built engines. I don't know when the old ones actually ended.
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      08-05-2016, 10:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gresh View Post
It has a plastic oil filter cap, but not housing.
The BMW diagnosis said sludge was found.
That is strange. Sludge can build up on 2 reasons: 1) oil is not changed very long time 2) coolant leaks to oil. First is very unlikely. Second is way more common, but usually happens if filer housing is plastic and cracks internaly

Quote:
Originally Posted by gresh View Post
The car had a very intermittent drivetrain malfunction, ... It started at about 50k miles, but really only lasted a few seconds and it probably only happened a few times.
Sounds like you had random "drivetrain malfunction" since 50K and did not check what it is was until at 80+K the engine completely failed? Hmmm
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      08-05-2016, 04:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gresh View Post
So in 2014, BMW did replace the plastic POS timing chain track and tensioner with a different one, but they didn't go out and refit already built engines. I don't know when the old ones actually ended.
The data on this forum
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...YAH4/htmlview#

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...in+malfunction

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=912547

Last edited by Bimar; 08-05-2016 at 04:12 PM..
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      08-06-2016, 03:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed View Post
That is strange. Sludge can build up on 2 reasons: 1) oil is not changed very long time 2) coolant leaks to oil. First is very unlikely. Second is way more common, but usually happens if filer housing is plastic and cracks internaly



Sounds like you had random "drivetrain malfunction" since 50K and did not check what it is was until at 80+K the engine completely failed? Hmmm
Yeah, the sludge can (and likely in this case, was) be caused by the turbo oil inlet pipe leaking oil. When this happens, oil is sucked into the intake. When I replaced the engine, I replace the turbo and the oil inlet pipe with the new one that BMW put out. This pipe was recalled on some countries, but not the U.S. The oil inlet pipe is also the cause of white smoke at startup, which this car had for about 6 months. I took it in twice for the smoke, but since it takes about 2 days for it to happen, the BMW dealer on both times said they couldnt reproduce the problem.

As far as the drivetrain malfunction, every time I took it in for oil change or service, I told them, but since it didnt throw any OBD errors and it only happened a few times, they couldnt reproduce that one either.
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      08-08-2016, 09:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gresh View Post
Yeah, the sludge can (and likely in this case, was) be caused by the turbo oil inlet pipe leaking oil. When this happens, oil is sucked into the intake.
In cases I know, when oil feed line was leaking, oil was escaping to exhaust impeller, accumulating on cat and burning as white smoke as startup. Even if oil leaked to intake, it would burn during combustion.
When oil leaks its level drops down, and if overlooked/ignored/notdetected leads to oil loss and as the result to oil starvation (sludge form too because overstress and overheating).
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      08-09-2016, 07:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed View Post
In cases I know, when oil feed line was leaking, oil was escaping to exhaust impeller, accumulating on cat and burning as white smoke as startup. Even if oil leaked to intake, it would burn during combustion.
When oil leaks its level drops down, and if overlooked/ignored/notdetected leads to oil loss and as the result to oil starvation (sludge form too because overstress and overheating).
Yep, that was happening. Most of the oil went into the exhaust. some of the oil is taken back in through the vacuum system and some to the intake. At this point, it doesnt matter because the engine is replaced. Right now, I am trying to find the cause of a OBD P0171 MIL.

Thanks for the insight though. I guess that if the oil indicator in the car was off, that would do it. I had the oil changed at 7500 miles for as long as I had it. You would have thought that BMW would have noticed, but maybe not.

Thanks again
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      08-10-2016, 09:55 AM   #18
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gresh, sorry I can not help with P0171 MIL, but hopefully still helping keeping the thread afloat so someone may reply something useful.

Meanwhile a question: how much did new engine cost? How much and long it took to swap it?

Thanks
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      08-11-2016, 07:41 AM   #19
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I just had my 2013 engine replaced by the dealer with a new 2013 spec engine. It took several days to order the parts including the block and put it together. I was told the cost was $23,000: I assume that includes labor.

I had an engine warning light come on within a 100 miles and took it back to the dealer. The dealer replaced the new fuel injectors with the correct part number.

George
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      08-11-2016, 08:32 PM   #20
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Don't forget that all cars in the US have an 8 year 80,000 mile EPA emissions warranty. I realize that you have 83,000 miles, but if you reported any symptoms to BMW before 80,000 they might cover this. I wonder if the timing chain or the turbo oil line problems can fall under this emissions warranty (turbo is specifically called out in the EPA warranty). Note this is a warranty required by EPA - not a BMW warranty. And if BMW pushes back you can contact the EPA.
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      08-13-2016, 01:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed View Post
gresh, sorry I can not help with P0171 MIL, but hopefully still helping keeping the thread afloat so someone may reply something useful.

Meanwhile a question: how much did new engine cost? How much and long it took to swap it?

Thanks
Since the car is more my project car, I found an engine out of a wrecked f25 which had only 5k miles on it. It cost me 5200 for the engine and 1000 for the turbo. Install was done by a horrible German car repair shop for 1900. It took 3 days and before I got out of the parking lot, the engine light came on.

I had to go behind them and secure 3 engine bolts that were just sitting there and then started working the P0171 error. I found 4 different vacuum leaks (usually the cause of this error) that were due to the repair shop either not plugging up a hose, or plugging it up incorrectly.
Together with coding all of the stuff that I had in it before, that's where I am with it.

The car runs great, even with the error.

Fun stuff.
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      08-13-2016, 01:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrp View Post
Don't forget that all cars in the US have an 8 year 80,000 mile EPA emissions warranty. I realize that you have 83,000 miles, but if you reported any symptoms to BMW before 80,000 they might cover this. I wonder if the timing chain or the turbo oil line problems can fall under this emissions warranty (turbo is specifically called out in the EPA warranty). Note this is a warranty required by EPA - not a BMW warranty. And if BMW pushes back you can contact the EPA.
Anything that is internal to the engine is NOT covered. The car sat for nearly 2 months at the local BMW dealer as I tried to get them to cover even a portion of the cost. They would pay 10%, which the dealer agreed to, not BMW USA.

The turbo I didn't have to replace. I just wanted to.
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