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      10-13-2011, 09:39 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by GenX3 View Post
Toecutter - thanks for the vid. In my car (current 740iL) I think the winter tires would have helped a couple times, but most of the time, I was fine.

For some reason, I feel like I just watched a Y2K video trying to scare me into purchasing snow tires. I think it might be more believable if it weren't a tire company that clearly has a bias on the issue.

I do think that stopping is no doubt better with snow tires. Sudden swerving, I think you're in trouble no matter what.

Probably comes down to driving habits, car maintenance (our keeping an eye on the tread), money, convenience, and a little gambling. I think someone said it already, but for most of us, the all seasons will be fine. Once a year, I'll probably wish I had snow tires on.
My family goes up to the ski area a lot (100+ days last winter) so the increased performance is worth it to me. I've never been a "works just fine" kind of guy. I'm more of a "absolute best I can afford" kind of guy. There is a definite difference in traction; it's not imagined and it's not subtle.

Besides, wanting winter tires gives me a reason to buy more tires, and I like tires.
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      10-13-2011, 09:40 AM   #24
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Well, I take the other approach, and always have 4 good winters, regardless of drive line. Just the peace-of-mind knowing that if starts to snow, I don't have to worry about whether or not I'll get home. We get a lot of "black ice" in these parts as well, and All-Seasons really do not do well in that situation.

For me, winter tires are cheap insurance and a no-brainer.
I agree with this, peice of mind is a strong thing! just knowing when it snows and my wife has the kids in a X3 that has AWD with snow tires is a huge relief in the winter. In my C63 I have no choice but to throw some snow tires on there but I had more confidence driving the C63 with snow tires than our LR2 with all season. Sure if I got stuck I would be screwed in my RWD car, while the LR2 with all seasons could get out, but its the "not getting stuck" part that snow tires helps with and the braking distance, nothing worse than hitting the brakes and just slidding into the car in front of you!

The way I look at it, Winter tires are $275 for 18" run flats, the 19" all seasons that come with the M Sport package are $340 (tirerack), so there is virtually no cost in the winter tires since they are cheaper than the bigger all seasons and save tread wear on those (since they aren't on your car all winter). the only real cost is the wheels, TPMS sensors and time.
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      10-13-2011, 09:43 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
Strange, we get the same crystallized H2O here in Illinois. Even stranger, the same physics regarding optimum tread width, tread hardness and rubber compounds seems to apply in North America!

Here's a pic of me clearing our driveway on Feb. 2, 2011, (overnight snowfall here was 55cm) a couple of days before my new X3 arrived with "all-seasons" tires. I'm using a Swedish Husqvarna snow thrower, which remarkably seems to work fine with North American snow. Amazing! Can't wait to fire it up again.
Is your whole driveway patterned like that? looks nice
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      10-13-2011, 09:57 AM   #26
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Nice photos!

Wow, that some serious snow (in both locations!). I guess that's one of the main factors... how much snow places get. In Colorado Springs our winters are not what they used to be. Doesn't mean we can't get trapped in a storm. It's just there are so few times nowadays that we have to concern ourselves with it.

I know this sounds crazy, but do they make snow tires (or tyres - "ti-rees" lol) for 19" rims? I'm doubting since 19" is more of a sport/summer wheel size.

I like the wheel so much, I hate the idea of driving with a higher profile, knock-off wheel for 6 months of the year for the once or twice where it might help. Sounds vain, but hey, if looks weren't part of it, we'd all be driving something different.
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      10-13-2011, 10:02 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by GenX3 View Post
I know this sounds crazy, but do they make snow tires (or tyres - "ti-rees" lol) for 19" rims? I'm doubting since 19" is more of a sport/summer wheel size.
I've seen 19" winter performance tyrees but not studless snow/ice tyrees.

Edit: correction
http://www.gtatires.ca/catalog/miche...8t-p-4693.html
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      10-13-2011, 10:20 AM   #28
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Tyres...

Toecutter, those are some damned nice tires. I think if it were just the tires, I would get them.

I'll probably go a winter with the all seasons and see how we fair.

Next season, I'll start looking for some wheels. Speaking of that, do most people just throw their winter tires on themselves? I've always been one to do that myself, but with such a sophisticated vehicle... Other than properly torquing down the nuts, what else is there?
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      10-13-2011, 10:52 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by GenX3 View Post
Wow, that some serious snow (in both locations!). I guess that's one of the main factors... how much snow places get. In Colorado Springs our winters are not what they used to be. Doesn't mean we can't get trapped in a storm. It's just there are so few times nowadays that we have to concern ourselves with it.

I know this sounds crazy, but do they make snow tires (or tyres - "ti-rees" lol) for 19" rims? I'm doubting since 19" is more of a sport/summer wheel size.

I like the wheel so much, I hate the idea of driving with a higher profile, knock-off wheel for 6 months of the year for the once or twice where it might help. Sounds vain, but hey, if looks weren't part of it, we'd all be driving something different.
Yeah they make 19" winter performance, you don't need the ice ones, the ride is worse (and they don't last as long) and unless you live in Canada or some northern Euro regions you are fine with winter performance.
I was actually thinking of getting 19" winter for the 369M wheels and then buying 20" wheels (either the 310M or saving a couple grand with tirerack wheels). I am pretty sure I am going to stick with the 19" 369M for summer and get 18" tirerack wheels with snow tires for winter, probably keep the all season on until my wife blows a tire (it will happen). Might still try to talk the dealer into swapping some performance tires for the all season for a small fee (which in BMW dealer terms is like $1,000 for the labor, )

oh and "knock off" wheels, some of them are, but I wouldn't call all those companies "knock off" wheel makers, they make some nice designs and will save you $100+/wheel compared to OEM wheels. you can always get a BMW roundel emblem and stick it on or you might even find the right center cap on ebay to change it out! BMW doesn't make wheels so even those M wheels you have are not "BMW" wheels they are all made by outside companies, so you adding the BMW Roundel is more of a cosmetic thing to make your wheels match your car looks than you trying to make people think you spent more on your wheels than you had to,
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      10-13-2011, 12:11 PM   #30
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Mako - unless you live in Canada or some northern Euro regions...

A bit of a generalization about Canada. You live in Chicago which gets way more snow and cold temps than some parts of Canada such as the West Coast (Vancouver, Victoria) and the southern interior of BC, such as Kelowna, where I live. I can easily get thru on performance winters, and do. Most of the big snowfalls in Canada are in areas around the Great Lakes, just like Chicago.

In fact, in Vancouver, I formerly got thru many winters with no winter tires at all. Some winters, Vancouver gets no snow, and often only two or three snow "events".
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      10-13-2011, 12:37 PM   #31
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Another factor to consider is your region's average winter temperatures and relative water content of the snow. Some people may mistakenly think that the colder a place is and the more snow they get, the worse conditions must be. That is not always true.

To oversimplify things, the colder it gets, the more light, dry, and fluffy snow becomes. 0°F with 2 feet deep snow might not be a big deal if it is dry powder snow because your car simply pushes through the snow as the snow gently blows around you. In skiing we call this "blower snow." Also, the colder it gets the less slippery packed snow and ice becomes. Utah, Colorado, the upper Midwest, and northern Canada would be examples of places that often see this type of conditions.

On the other hand, if you live in a place such as Washington and Oregon where winter temperatures average right around the freezing point and there is high water content in the snow, conditions can be extremely treacherous. When snow is at the freezing point a thin layer of water can form on top of it, which makes it extremely slippery.

If you live in a place such as the East Coast, then you should just move. Just kidding.

To demonstrate this concept for yourself, grab an ice cube out of your freezer and roll it around in your fingers. It's fairly sticky. Now dribble a little bit of water on top of the ice cube and roll it around in your fingers. Wet ice wants to squirt right out of your hand.

If you live in a region where it gets extremely cold conditions are generally dry, all season rubber can be very sticky. However, if you live in a place where there are frequent freeze/thaw cycles (e.g. the Pacific Northwest), then you will benefit greatly from a dedicated snow tire.
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      10-13-2011, 12:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Mako - unless you live in Canada or some northern Euro regions...

A bit of a generalization about Canada. You live in Chicago which gets way more snow and cold temps than some parts of Canada such as the West Coast (Vancouver, Victoria) and the southern interior of BC, such as Kelowna, where I live. I can easily get thru on performance winters, and do. Most of the big snowfalls in Canada are in areas around the Great Lakes, just like Chicago.

In fact, in Vancouver, I formerly got thru many winters with no winter tires at all. Some winters, Vancouver gets no snow, and often only two or three snow "events".
sorry, just being a typical American and thinking of Canada as this big wintry land that is 0 degrees and full of snow and ice at all times, sort of like the north pole where Santa lives
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      10-13-2011, 12:53 PM   #33
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good article from inside line

http://www.insideline.com/features/t...vs-summer.html

comparing all three types of tires in different conditions, when I was younger I actually drove my M Roadster (240 hp one) in the winter with performance tires, and just thought the car handled like crap in snow (later found out a simple tire swap solved most of the problems).

whats interesting to see is that on dry pavement you probably won't notice that big of a difference in all season tires vs summer tires, none with acceleration, biggest difference is braking (which makes sense as tires matter most for that). BUT when the ground is wet, summer tires actually perform much better than all season.

basically all season tires are crap, if its over 50 F you want summer tires, if its under you want winter tires, simple!

which just pisses me off more than my M Sport doesn't have a summer tire option from the factory, now what the hell do I do with these all season tires as the dealership is not cooperating with a performance tire swap.
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      10-13-2011, 12:55 PM   #34
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sorry, just being a typical American and thinking of Canada as this big wintry land that is 0 degrees and full of snow and ice at all times, sort of like the north pole where Santa lives
You forgot the Mounties in red serge uniforms with the funny hats.
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      10-13-2011, 01:14 PM   #35
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sorry, just being a typical American and thinking of Canada as this big wintry land that is 0 degrees and full of snow and ice at all times, sort of like the north pole where Santa lives
You mean it isn't?? I thought it was, eh!

When I was a kid I lived in Grand Forks, ND and we would commonly get Candian coins mixed in our change... and I'd pick them out and throw them away, saying "damn, I got another fake one".
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      10-13-2011, 01:49 PM   #36
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You mean it isn't?? I thought it was, eh!

When I was a kid I lived in Grand Forks, ND and we would commonly get Candian coins mixed in our change... and I'd pick them out and throw them away, saying "damn, I got another fake one".
People actually live in Grand Forks, ND.....??
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      10-13-2011, 01:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post
I've seen 19" winter performance tyrees but not studless snow/ice tyrees.

Edit: correction
http://www.gtatires.ca/catalog/miche...8t-p-4693.html
E.g. Nokian Renkaat makes even 20" proper winter tyres (common wealth English as you can see here at the bottom of the list:

http://vianor.fi/rengas?t=talvirenka...+R&id=11269111

But they are not RunFlats...

Last edited by Rodion; 10-13-2011 at 01:57 PM..
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      10-13-2011, 01:56 PM   #38
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Strange, we get the same crystallized H2O here in Illinois. Even stranger, the same physics regarding optimum tread width, tread hardness and rubber compounds seems to apply in North America!
Wow, who would have guessed But we, here in Europe, have particles faster than light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484
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      10-13-2011, 02:50 PM   #39
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Wow, who would have guessed But we, here in Europe, have particles faster than light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484
Or scientists that can't find the error in their measurements.
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      10-13-2011, 02:55 PM   #40
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Is your whole driveway patterned like that? looks nice
No, that's the flooring inside the garage only. It's Racedeck (interlocking very heavy plastic tiles).
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      10-13-2011, 03:11 PM   #41
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No, that's the flooring inside the garage only. It's Racedeck (interlocking very heavy plastic tiles).
okay, it looked like garage flooring but the angle of the photo made me think it was the driveway! I went with the boring epoxy coat (although in a dark gray/black sprinkle mix)
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